SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 58)

Nice swim times Fred!

However when I am swimming FAST, all hell breaks loose back there and I switch to a 6 beat kick. Our main set today included 20 100s at various efforts, so it was a good workout to compare effort, kick pattern, and speed. It seems my "FAST" pace is only about a second faster than my "Strong" pace, but it is a good bit more effort due in large part to the introduction of the 6 beat kick, most likely.

So, the coach seemed to think that I was better off going with the kick I have right now as I seem to maintain good body position and basically use my kick primarily for balance depending on my breathing pattern (I just breath when I need to and comfortably to either side, which for me seems to be a good habit for OWS). Where he thinks I can actually make the most improvement (besides just continuing to increase fitness) is to actually work on my "Strong" pace as I have a little hesitation in my stroke, most likely as a side effect of the mental deliberateness of it. This should allow me a slightly increased turnover without any more work. I am going to work on that.

FWIW I found it very useful to have someone else look at me and help to understand what was going on. For me anyway, it often seems like when swimming what I think is happening and what is really going on is not the case. For instance the whole conversation started with the coach when he asked what the hell I was doing. I told him I was trying to work on my two beat kick. He said, "But you already have a good two beat kick." I thought I was kicking with my right leg when my right hand entered the water, but what he said was what I felt was simply myself leaning on my right leg while I kicked with my left and vice versus. The actual kick just felt like the slightest flick.

As a side note, while not as fast as the school of fishies in the group, my first "FAST" 100 was a pokey 1:26, but all of the rest were 1:19~1:20, depending on whether I was swimming "FAST" or "Strong." While i would like to get that to 1:15, for now I was very pleased with that.

edited to add paragraph breaks left out by the stupid iPad - sorry about that.

Edited by TankBoy 2013-01-24 7:39 AM

More swim times for me to envy.  I was doing some semi-private swim lessons a couple of winters ago and ultimately dropped it because the only focus was on my kick - nothing with the rest of my stroke.  But with all the work I did on my kick at the time, it still didn't offer any real propulsion.  It was recommended (and I take it with a grain of salt since I didn't get much else from the coach) that I should stick to a 2 beat kick as much as possible and  that the kick not be deep or strong, but more to Rusty's suggestion of a "flick".

And for now, I'm trying to focus on re-inventing my stroke above and below water, which is all kinds of frustrating since it feels very wrong.

Yeah, I am pretty sure I get little-to-no propulsion from my kick as well - it seems to be purely for balance and position. I do know I get absolutely smoked by everyone on the kicking sets. Like you I think my biggest efficiency gains are still to made on the underwater part of my stroke.

Rusty , for iPad/iphone paragraphs try using < p >  No spaces.  

Oh, yeah - I edited it - I just forgot...

Not a criticism. Just learned it myself. My only contribution for the morning. My kick sucks. 

that actually made me laugh out loud just a bit, and now people in the coffee shop are glaring at me...

DANG IT, and now you did it again! Cut it out or they are going to ask me to leave!

I guarantee you I get little to no propulsion from my kick while I swim.  It is purely a balance thing for me - I suspect it is why I don't kick with a wetsuit on.  

What you notice about your fast being barely faster than strong despite the significant increase in effort is somewhat common I think.  I swim with a guy who is a decent swimmer (1:01 IM) and he can do a good strong swim pace all day but as soon as he tries to go fast, his stroke just goes out the window.  He just starts spinning his wheels, it seems like he is trying to increase his turnover but the way that he does it is by shortening his stroke.

hey Linda, in re-reading this it actually sounds like you may be having more trouble in handling the bike when changing hand positions than you are with the actual timing of the shift? If that is the case then it really is practice, practice, practice. I think my bike handling skills are pretty darn good, but I still do a "paper route" ride about once a month to work on it. I usually will do it as a recovery ride, so it can be fairly easy. Basically you spend 1.5~2.0 hours riding around your neighborhood taking every turn you come to. Go up dead end streets and make u-turns, ride multiple loops both directions around cul-de-sacs and increase your speed on each one, aim at hills, sometimes sprint 50~100 meters when you take each turn - have fun, ride like a kid - go exploring. Here is a link that will show you the track of my most recent one: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/HHWSAP557BXDEYPFTIB77BFHXM

As for shifting specifically when on the hoods of your tri bike, you basically want to develop very light hands, it kind of feels like you are doing more steering with your hips/core than you are with your hands. A really good exercise for this is to practice "bottle pickups" where you basically ride really slowly by a bottle on the ground and reach down and pick it up. Practice both sides, and don't be afraid to fall over: nothing terrible will happen if you do. Practice in the grass if that makes you more comfortable, and even start with the bottle on a stool, chair, or box and move it lower as you get more proficient. Practice both sides - who knows, if you get good enough at it you might even get a job in the bicycle rodeo!

Also in your first post on the topic, you mentioned that a significant part of your problem was shifting while you were standing, and that you were standing to try and go faster up the hill. I might suggest that unless it is an EXTREMELY steep hill you will be much faster and expend less energy if you don't stand to begin with - but others may feel differently.

And lastly, yes absolutely practice your transitions, no matter how dorky it may feel. For many racers there is more free time to be gained in T1 & T2 than dropping their 5k time by 10%, which would actually take a lot more time and effort.

I like that paper route ride idea Rusty!

I'm not sure if I could pickup a bottle off the ground.  I suspect not.

Arend - I think you just described me to a T - any pointers?

It is a bit tougher on a tri bike than a road bike....

Oh, and if you have a garmin 800, instead of doing a paper route you can play "Tron Light Cycle." Here is one of those: www.trainingpeaks.com/av/3M6DOOVJMGQUQNTXLAOME2KKZU

It is basically the same thing: you still take as many turns as possible, but now you are looking ahead on the map a bit and figuring out how to never cross back over your track. Good times indeed.

And sometime this summer I am going to do one of these: www.thecreatorsproject.com/blog/drawing-gps-pictures-by-riding-a-bicycle

I'm not sure what the standard approach would be but my instinct would be to initially limit the fast swimming to 25s or 50s so you can focus purely on maintaining the same stroke as what you do in strong with more turnover.  It might also be worthwhile to try dialling your fast back just a bit to see if that makes a difference.

do you think a tempo trainer would work, using it to slowly build up the speed via tempo changes?

bzgl40 - 2013-01-24 9:01 AM All I have to say about swimming and your kick is I have a pretty darn good kick.  However, I am slow as crap.  I will give any of you sub 1:30 (oh hell, sub 1:45) folks my kick if you give me your speed. 

Not a chance! I work on my kick less than anyone else around me, but seem to be getting faster sooner.