Tookie Williams (Page 6)

I'm not in favor of criminals profiting from their crimes. I don't know if Tookie made money from his books or not. If so, that's wrong and the money should go to the victims' families, or their favorite charities if they don't want it.

It may sound cold, but the argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with the victims or their families. It's about what we believe to be morally right. And that's it.

I'll say it again: when we kill the killers, we're no better then they. 

Well maybe I missed it, but which post does he talk aobut the victims famalies. I distinctly remember the one praising Tookies acomplishments. I am sure that is a great comfort to the famalies of the people he is convicted of murdering.

Let me as you or anyone else here: If you had a close family member violently murdered by someone, how would you feel about all of Hollywood's celebrities singing his praises on national tv, becasue of all the good he has done....

Not running away, but I gotta go get my daughtyer from school.

I'll talk more about this later. 

It wasn't so much that he didn't say anyting prior to my statement regarding the families of his victims. It was due to the fact that he thoguht Tookies celebrity status was a good thing. Again I don't think the famalies need to hear about his books he wrote and "all of the good he has done". He was in prison for violently murdering 4 people, I don't understand why he was able to do that and why someone woud sing his praises, effectively spitting in the faces of his victims famalies.

Here are the statments that were made that condoned his public status.

Because he is...was working hard to undue what he started. In his time in prison, he was an anti-gang advocate, and now his voice in the matter is lost. Who do you think these kids would listen to when faced with a dilemma involving joining a gang? Arnold or Tookie?

I think because he's been executed, some kids are going to make the wrong choice where before they my not have. 

So that's always good advice, but I'd be curious to hear what facts you think we're bending? The fact that life in prison isn't an easy one? The fact that it costs a bunch more money to execute a prisoner? The fact that we're morally convicted in our belief? The fact that Tookie did some good behind bars, more good than he's doing now that he's dead? 

 If I have violated the rules here, please share which ones with me and I will issue the appropriate apology. I am learing every day.

I understand how you feel, I too think that if what I have said so far, regarding convicted killers having access to the media and amenities that they have makes it harder for the death penalty to be abolished, nothing else will either.

It does amaze me that the anti-death penalty people (in my opinon based on what I have read) seem to also be so concerned about the rights and privilages of the crimal, without thinking of the victims and their famalies.

Fallacious generalizations are unhelpful to an debate honest exchange of ideas or understanding.

I don't believe in killing people. Period. That's not about the criminal, the crime, or the lust for vengeance on the part of society or the victim's family. I do not believe in killing people. Surely, that is not difficult to understand?

The families of victims suffer. They will forever suffer the loss of their loved one. Their suffering provokes compassion in me and sometimes rage. It does not provoke a raging lust for vengeance. It does not change my belief that killing people is wrong. The Great Creator forbid I should ever know the rage that some families might feel in their deepest sorrow. I hope and pray that my spirituality would not fail me and lead me to a darkness that says vengeance is the answer. I hope to never be that dark when confronted with that kind of agony. I hope my spiritual being will be stronger than that. But I am human and I would likely falter or fail my spiritual beliefs during such a dark period. However, just because I fail doesn't mean a detached yet just society should fail with me.

Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord. While I'm not Christian, I do believe in a spirituality that discourages humans from playing God, a spirituality that says I cannot overcome evil with evil, that I can overcome evil only with good.

I have been following this discussion all day and have held off adding my opinion but I just can't stay quiet anymore.

1) The argument of "not sentencing an innocent man/women to die"- It seems to me that anyone even suspected of capital murder has some criminal history or incredibly bad luck. Last time I checked they didn't go and jerk random people out of their homes and convict them of capital murder. These suspects must have had SOMETHING to tie them to the victims or they would have never been involved in the case from the get go. Secondly, a jury must find someone guilty beyond a resonable doubt.If there is not enough evidence or testimony to create resonable doubt then these people are somehow involved or know who is involved. I really think that the error rate here is very low. You can't fake physical evidence (i.e fingerprints, DNA, etc.).

2) The "we are no better than the killers" argument-what a bunch of crap! If you make the conscious decision to end another person's life then you forfeit your life PERIOD! Tookie got what he deserved, just like Ted Bundy, and Timothy McVeigh. You take life you better be prepared to pay with your own.

Not to open up another can of worms, but this sounds alot like the whole argument on the Patriot Act. In my opinion you shouldn't care if you don't have anything to hide. Same for capital punishment, if you aren't planning to kill someone then it shouldn't matter.