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enginerd's geek heaven - FULL (Page 6)
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 2009-04-14 6:38 PM in reply to: #2084568 |
 Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULLBaowolf - 2009-04-14 6:32 PM Today's run was fun, 10 min wu, 5 min LT (pace HR 175), 15 min easy, 5 min LT, 15 min easy, 5 min LT, 5 min easy cool down (20 F windchill, 20 mph winds, flurries). It is supposed to make me faster or at least tired.. 8). Brrrrr... I hope spring finds you soon! |
| 2009-04-14 6:42 PM in reply to: #2084476 |
Master  2404   Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL Ronen - 2009-04-14 2:57 PM It took me 9 months from swimming 1 length of a 25 yards pool, to swim 1,500 meters (it was a slow swim - but I made it). Thanks for the advice on running form. I am interested to learn more aboit it. Any good links/sources of info? There are several running methods, POSE, Chi Running and the traditional method. I bought a book on Chi Running which focuses on a forward lean, relaxed lower legs, with your upper legs doing all the work. It helped out alot, as I used to land with my forward foot too far ahead of hips which caused injuries and a slow inefficient gait. POSE is extremely similiar, and others have used this with success as well. The traditional straight stance, hips forward also works well for others. |
| 2009-04-14 7:22 PM in reply to: #2083406 |
Master 1588   San Francisco | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-14 9:14 AM QOTD: what's your strongest discipline? What's your weakest? What questions do you have about your weakest? What advice do you have for others your strongest? A lot of great info here from everyone! based on my rankings by discipline from all my races, my swim is my weakest, then bike, then run. The one advantage of my strengths being in this order is that as the race progresses, I'm passing more than I'm get passed by!  I have to admit that I don't really do speed work of any kind in any of my disciplines. I know this would make me faster, but I just wouldn't enjoy it as much since I just like being into the flow and zen of long distance. Comments about form by everyone is great. Swimming is the most technical of the disciplines, so if you aren't comfortable with your stroke, some instruction (group or private) would probably help. I'm a scrawny guy with spindly arms, but I can do a 25m length in 16 strokes, so form is worth a lot. Counting how many strokes you do is probably a decent measure of your efficiency in the water because bad form=drag=more strokes. Many people say that larger volume in running, at one level, helps you become more efficient in your form which also helps you go faster of course (and prevent injury). I think most would say a heel strike is not efficient in a runner because of the mild braking effect so mid or forefoot striking (e.g. pose, chi, etc.) may help. For biking, a lot of time in the saddle helps and doing hills certainly helps build strength. I bike to work every day and some people call that junk miles, but I put in about 4000 junk miles a year on my commuter alone which is double what I put on my tri bikes a year. The last thing I'd say is that consistency in training is very beneficial. It's hard to improve your form and get faster if you're only doing something twice a week (trust me, I know since I only swim twice a week!). But by biking 5-6 times a week even during the off season, my biking has made phenomenal gains in the last couple years. |
| 2009-04-14 7:27 PM in reply to: #2084642 |
Master 1588 San Francisco | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL treehugger - 2009-04-14 4:19 PM One of the things I've tried form-wise is to go for a shorter stride with faster turnover (for endurance running, not sprinting). It's supposed to be more efficient, and reduce injury risk. I haven't been very scientific about it, but I think I've been able to go to a shorter stride without losing speed and it's definitely made a difference when coming back from injury. What do you guys think about stride length? That's what I've read too. It's probably similar in concept to the high cadence on a bike. The two factors w/re: to your speed are going to be turnover rate X stride length. You can get faster by increasing either one or both. The only thing to be careful about increasing stride length is that you don't do it by putting your foot too far forward (and begin heel striking), but rather by lengthing the stride on the back end by pulling your legs through and pushing off more forecefully. |
| 2009-04-14 7:32 PM in reply to: #2069077 |
Master 1588 San Francisco | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL BTW, meant to post the link the my IM Cal 70.3 race report since I finished it up late last week. Link HERE. (warning, I always write really long race reports). Edited by enginerd 2009-04-14 7:32 PM |
| 2009-04-14 8:12 PM in reply to: #2069077 |
Master 1303 Mishicot, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL QOTD: what's your strongest discipline? What's your weakest? What questions do you have about your weakest? What advice do you have for others your strongest?
To answer the question.... on any given day (when I am not in a swim funk As for my weakest... running hands down. I am very injury prone from shin splints, sprained ankles, ITBS. I am slow and endurance is certainly an issue, which is getting better as I am being very careful and building slowly with distance training. My biggest issue with running is training for an IM. I keep reading conflicting stories all over the place. Some say you should never train over three hours with running, others say you need to do 20-22 miles. I just don't know. I am planning on run/walking and training up to 22 miles. I think I need it for confidence and figuring out my nutrition and making sure I know I can run that much. I'm not sure about advice for my strengths... I don't feel knowledgeable enough with swimming especially when I can't even get myself in the pool to say anything.
It has been very interesting listening to everyone's replies here. Looks like we a lot we can learn from each other! |
| 2009-04-14 10:29 PM in reply to: #2083406 |
Master 2501 | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-14 11:14 AM QOTD: what's your strongest discipline? What's your weakest? What questions do you have about your weakest? What advice do you have for others your strongest? This has been a great question and it's taking me forever to read everyone's FABULOUS responses! I've skimmed but want to read more closely and follow up on links!! For me, swimming is by far my strength. So far I haven't won an overall swim yet (I think I've been 1st in my AG, but not sure), but I have been 2nd overall for the chicks, and that's on minimal training. I'm nowhere near as fast as I was once upon a time, but I can perform well enough w/not much work these days. I'm decent at the run, but there are many who are much faster. I've placed well for the runs in my AG (5-10th). I was a solid 10'/mile runner for years, then started running with a friend who taught me I am much faster. I've done a wee bit of speed work, but never consistently, but it has helped a lot. I've recently done two LT tests on my own and quickly learned I am a LAZY and SLOW runner who was always running at low Z1 pace. So it's kinda been fun to run faster than I used to, but I wish I were a faster runner. The bike is my achilles heel. When I look at overall results, in my AG I place well in the run and swim and my bike times are much slower than those who are equal to me for my running times. I am trying to do all sorts of bike work. Time in the saddle, hills, pushing rides harder, etc. I did Jorge's program this winter for about 12 weeks (didn't finish due to HIM program starting up), so I did lots of intervals on the trainer for that. I can tell I am improving and am sort-of anxious to see how I do in my next race, although that's the HIM so it's anyone's guess!! For swimming... it's really hard to give advice without seeing someone's stroke. But when I look at "non-swimmers," these are the major things I notice: Most people kick WAAAAAY too much. Like Jules, I was a distance swimmer and I just do a basic two-beat kick that serves not much more purpose than keeping my legs/hips afloat. (And I love pulling w/a pull buoy and use it for recovery swimming!) But if you are doing a big kick you are jacking your heart rate waaaaaaaaay up, using tons of unnecessary energy, and for many people you can end up almost panicking because you are pretty much gasping for air (which is a scary feeling in the water). I'm sure many people do big kicks in an effort to keep those hips/legs up. I see lots of people swimming "uphill." Swimming is all about streamlining and gliding THROUGH the water. My favorite drills to work on this sort of thing are catch-up drills (keeping one arm in front until the next arm "catches up" -- touch hands before you start the next stroke), or DPS (distance per stroke) drills where you stretch out one arm and skull with the water and kick an extra 3-5 kicks before you take another stroke. This drill helps me work on the hip rotation also, so you go through the water with a back-&-forth with the hips as well. Another common error is to drop the elbows after your hand enters the water, thus losing all the strength of your strong triceps! One coach once upon a time taught me to think of the breast stroke as reaching over a barrel -- that same picture can translate sort-of half-way for freestyle. You want to grab and pull that water, don't let your arm "slice" through it. Head position will affect your hips and back and lower back. You don't want to be looking straight down or straight ahead. I think of water as sort-of being mid-forehead or just above your goggles. It shouldn't be uncomfortable... This is all hard to describe!! I'm sitting here doing swim movements in my kitchen and my visiting mother is giving me strange looks! (But she quickly figured out I was swimming!) So... I need to run faster to run faster. Check. I recently have changed my stride to more of a mid-foot strike (used to be a heel striker) and I do try to focus on a shorter stride particularly when I'm tired. Biking, I think I just need time, time, time, and training and then some!! |
| 2009-04-14 10:56 PM in reply to: #2073729 |
| Nor*Cal | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - OPEN Darn it! Missed getting in on this group again. Oh well, guess I'll just -ak- |
| 2009-04-14 11:24 PM in reply to: #2085151 |
Master 1588 San Francisco | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - OPEN Atak Kat - 2009-04-14 8:56 PM Darn it! Missed getting in on this group again. Oh well, guess I'll just stalk lurk this thread like last year. See ya at WF, Donato! -ak- Hey Joel. We just started the group. You're welcome to join if you like! |
| 2009-04-15 7:42 AM in reply to: #2084780 |
Master 1209 New York, NY | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-14 8:32 PM BTW, meant to post the link the my IM Cal 70.3 race report since I finished it up late last week. Link HERE. (warning, I always write really long race reports). Thanks for posting the link...can't wait to read it!! |
| 2009-04-15 7:52 AM in reply to: #2085118 |
Master 1209 New York, NY | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL kkcbelle - 2009-04-14 11:29 PM Most people kick WAAAAAY too much. Like Jules, I was a distance swimmer and I just do a basic two-beat kick that serves not much more purpose than keeping my legs/hips afloat. (And I love pulling w/a pull buoy and use it for recovery swimming!) But if you are doing a big kick you are jacking your heart rate waaaaaaaaay up, using tons of unnecessary energy, and for many people you can end up almost panicking because you are pretty much gasping for air (which is a scary feeling in the water). I taught myself to swim last year (which is a comedy all its own!) and for a long time I was guilty of kicking way to much and too hard. As Kyla said, I'd feel like I was gasping for air after only a couple laps and for a long time couldn't understand why. I think what helped me to kick less was using the PB, A LOT. I didn't feel like I had to kick so hard anymore and became more focused on pulling & gliding through the water. |
| 2009-04-15 10:46 AM in reply to: #2069077 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL The first 2 weeks after my TI class last summer I was in that gasping category. Some of it is position, some of it is timing and some of it is having the right muscles fit enough to keep the forward movement going smoothly. If you time the breathing late you are going to be sinking as you try to breath in = bad. If you don't rotate far enough your mouth won't get to where the air is. If your head is too high you also won't get to where the air is. If it is calm or you are in a pool, you should be able to breath with one gogle/eye in the water and one out. But when learning to breath, you may have to exagerate the rotation to get comfortable. A really fun efficiency drill is swimming the entire 25 yards of the pool in one breath. You can't do it if you are kicking/thrashing too much because you use too much oxygen. But if you slow down a little and just nail the form you can go the whole length with conserving energy. |
| 2009-04-15 11:15 AM in reply to: #2083406 |
Member 43 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-14 11:14 AM QOTD: what's your strongest discipline? What's your weakest? What questions do you have about your weakest? What advice do you have for others your strongest? hmm that question rendered some interesting results. Based on my rankings on the Chicago triathlon 2008 my strongest discipline is running. This is what I would have thought would have been my weakest. The rankings also show that the swim is my weakest. I would have thought this would have been my strongest.  Perhaps I was basing this more on what I am most comfortable with. Somehow I thought I am most comfortable with the swim discipline. However, I see that compared to others this is actually my weakest. Very interesting... I am not sure I am comfortable giving advice about running. I feel I still need to improve a lot in this area before anyone should have to listen to my thoughts on this. |
| 2009-04-15 12:04 PM in reply to: #2069077 |
Master 1588 San Francisco | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL QOTD: on the lighter side for humpday...what do you drink? Sure, what do you prefer for training/racing/recovery, but more importantly, what's your preference for caffeinated and/or alcoholic? |
| 2009-04-15 12:43 PM in reply to: #2086211 |
Master 1209 New York, NY | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-15 1:04 PM QOTD: on the lighter side for humpday...what do you drink? Sure, what do you prefer for training/racing/recovery, but more importantly, what's your preference for caffeinated and/or alcoholic? When I read the question my mind immediately went to alcohol Haha. I find this especially funny bc a couple weeks ago I was really in the mood for a beer, so I picked up a 6 pack om my way home. Out of six, four still remain. Lately I've been so tired when I finish training at night that all I want to do is go to sleep.Coffee every morning! Mmmm...love it!! I usually make it at home....buys beans from a few different shops around the city. For anyone that's a coffee lover, and you make your way to NYC this place has amazing coffee. When I'm not too tired from training to have a drink I usually go for a nice glass of red wine. Depending on my mood, at the top of my list would be barolo, pinot noir or a California cabernet. Or if I'm feeling like a beer, Blue Moon and Hoegaarden are always a winners. And it's always nice to find a good microbrew. I could tell you about my training and recovery drinks, but that just wouldn't be any fun  |
| 2009-04-15 2:32 PM in reply to: #2086211 |
| , Arizona | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL Water... or a nice big glass of cold milk after a workout. I don't have any caffeinated drinks, no soda, no coffee... I'll go for some hot tea though, usually green. I've been drinking a lot of red wine lately as well. For beers, big fan of most of New Belgium's beers; fat tire, 1554, trippel. Oak Creek makes a good amber, and you can't go wrong with Blue Moon with a slice of orange on a hot summer day. |
| 2009-04-15 2:39 PM in reply to: #2069077 |
Veteran 151 Coldfoot, Alaska | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL I'm pretty boring for drinks, mostly two parts hydrogen one part oxygen. When I do venture for something stronger I mix it up. Mojito, mudslide, margarita - with sugar - no salt. All are good. Probably my favorite drink someone made me a Howling Wolf. Like drinking melted Andes Mints. YUM! Have never found it or anyone who could make it since.  Training drinks - usuall just H20. Soft drinks - pub squash - but since I can't get that here - root beer. Edited by sanhador 2009-04-15 2:40 PM |
| 2009-04-15 2:52 PM in reply to: #2086211 |
Veteran 217 San Diego, CA | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-15 10:04 AM QOTD: on the lighter side for humpday...what do you drink? Sure, what do you prefer for training/racing/recovery, but more importantly, what's your preference for caffeinated and/or alcoholic? When swimming: Unlike others in my lane, I do not take any sports drink or tap water. If I am to drink anything in during swim workouts it would be pool water... When cycling: Gatorade. One 16 oz. bottle an hour. When running: Water. I get all other nutritional needs from other supliments. On weekdays: Usually, 1 coffee in the morning and a few cans of Diet Dr. Pepsi till I get back home. At home, I drink a lot of club soda. On weekends: A glass of red wine or a cocktail (Gin an Tonic is my #1 choice), sometimes a bear. My preference would be an ice cold Belgian bear. |
| 2009-04-15 4:03 PM in reply to: #2086211 |
Master 2501 | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-15 12:04 PM QOTD: on the lighter side for humpday...what do you drink? Sure, what do you prefer for training/racing/recovery, but more importantly, what's your preference for caffeinated and/or alcoholic? Drip coffee with half-and-half (just a splash). Iced in the summer. Iced with vodka and a dash of sugar on a hot summer Friday. Alcohol-wise, I like not-too-sweet drinks. Vodka with club soda and a splash of cranberry. Captain Morgan's spiced rum with diet 7-up. An ice-cold beer on a hot day. Red wine with fancy dinners or at social gatherings. I'm a lightweight and don't drink much (average about 2 drinks/month). It affects my sleep and isn't worth the extra calories, IMO. Great question! Ooops... didn't add training stuff. Water is my favorite beverage of all time. I put stuff in it if I need calories, but I'll always choose water before, during, and after. Edited by kkcbelle 2009-04-15 4:05 PM |
| 2009-04-15 4:24 PM in reply to: #2086211 |
| Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-15 1:04 PM QOTD: on the lighter side for humpday...what do you drink? Sure, what do you prefer for training/racing/recovery, but more importantly, what's your preference for caffeinated and/or alcoholic? For caffeine: I'm a sucker for the fancy coffee drinks, usually a skim latte. I also like iced coffee, which I got hooked on when I lived in the land of Dunkin Donuts (no one goes there for the donuts, just the coffee, or so they say). They put tons of sugar in it, so it's like drinking melted ice cream. For alcohol: I prefer beer (Sierra Nevada or Red Hook ESB are favorites) over wine, which gives me killer headaches. Lately, a single beer will put me to sleep and make me feel sluggish in the morning, so I rarely drink any more. For workouts: I'm with Ronen on the pool water - who needs to drink more while swimming? For running, I stick with water and eat something salty when I get home. |
| 2009-04-15 4:42 PM in reply to: #2083406 |
| Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-14 12:14 PM QOTD: what's your strongest discipline? What's your weakest? What questions do you have about your weakest? What advice do you have for others your strongest? OK, I know it's yesterday's question, but now I have a question about cycling (my weakest discipline). I noticed several people mentioned using a bike trainer, so I was wondering whether using a trainer would be helpful in building up my cycling. I assume actual riding on the road is best, but being able to do one or two workouts a week at home after the kids are in bed would be very helpful schedule-wise. What are the pros and cons? Are the less expensive trainers usable? If I get a trainer, what features should I look for? Thanks! |
| 2009-04-15 4:49 PM in reply to: #2069077 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL Hrm for after work or after a workout it is usually diet mountain dew on ice. I occasionally indulge in a White Zifendel on a Friday night after all the workouts are done, with dinner. I typically only drink beer when I am out somewhere or at a BBQ or something. I can easily go 6 to 10 months without any alcohol though. If I am out to dinner with the wife or whatever I might go for a strawberry margarita or a pinacalda a couple times a year. A toxic drink is a Blue Monday, haven't had one of those in like hrm 6 years or so. You do need to blend them even if the book says to serve it on ice and don't drive yourself home. |
| 2009-04-15 4:59 PM in reply to: #2069077 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL I have the common basic trainer Cyclops II Liquid trainer, or some such. I need it to get miles in when it is dark and or sub 20 and icy out. I am not going to trash my bike and or body on icy roads, sorry not gona do it. They run like $150 ish. You get a good workout on them, but you don't get the balence, experience shifting on hills, change in amount of drag on the tire (hills). You can increase intensity by using bigger gears, that is not a problem, but it is different than actual road miles. However you can watch an entire season of whatever on a nice 4 hour trainer ride. Most folks find it hard to ride a trainer for more than an hour or two. If you are rich, you can get fancy ones that simulate IM race bike courses and maybe even show the scenery and such. |
| 2009-04-15 5:29 PM in reply to: #2086211 |
Member 43 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL enginerd - 2009-04-15 12:04 PM QOTD: on the lighter side for humpday...what do you drink? Sure, what do you prefer for training/racing/recovery, but more importantly, what's your preference for caffeinated and/or alcoholic? While training and racing it's water and Gatorade for me. I have not yet gotten fancy with that. At the bar my favorite drink is Vodka lemonade. My favorite beers are Heineken, Guiness, 312, and Hacker Schorr. I also like red wine every once in a while. It is just one one those things I wish I knew a little more about though because I never really know what to get.. |
| 2009-04-15 6:26 PM in reply to: #2087202 |
Member 43 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: enginerd's geek heaven - FULL treehugger - 2009-04-15 4:42 PM enginerd - 2009-04-14 12:14 PM QOTD: what's your strongest discipline? What's your weakest? What questions do you have about your weakest? What advice do you have for others your strongest? OK, I know it's yesterday's question, but now I have a question about cycling (my weakest discipline). I noticed several people mentioned using a bike trainer, so I was wondering whether using a trainer would be helpful in building up my cycling. I assume actual riding on the road is best, but being able to do one or two workouts a week at home after the kids are in bed would be very helpful schedule-wise. What are the pros and cons? Are the less expensive trainers usable? If I get a trainer, what features should I look for? Thanks! Personally I believe the bike trainer is probably a very helpful tool. Unfortunately it is also extremely boring. I think it is good to be able to simply pedal away while focusing on your heart rate and form. It seems like a good idea to be able to do this without having to worry about stop lights, the road ahead, pedestrians, etc, not to mention the weather! Of course I guess this would all depend on where you live.. I got a Kurt Kinetic fluid bike trainer. I am not sure how it compares to others but it seems to work pretty well. |
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