Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 65)
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() spudone - 2011-03-15 12:19 PM Option 5 would involve using a bike computer on the bike plus RPE (felt effort), and your 305 only on the run.. If you're going to use a bike computer, is there a way to turn the GPS off on the Garmin? GPS is what chews up the battery... but if you have the bike computer then you really only need heart rate on the watch. Turning off the GPS and relying on the bike computer is very easy to do, and will greatly lengthen battery life (I'd recommend testing as well - use it with no GPS for a long bike ride, then turn GPS on and set it outside until it dies. Check in training peaks or other softward to see how long the battery lasted). To turn off GPS: Hold down "MODE" until the screen letting you choose between disciplines appears. Scroll to the bottom and select "indoor mode" -- to turn it back on repeat the process and select "outdoor mode" |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kiki_zen - 2011-03-15 2:59 PM mallen4574 - 2011-03-15 1:15 PM I think there are a couple of 310xt's laying on the bottom of Lake Couer d' Alene from last years Ironman. It seemed that they pop off in the boxing match of a swim. I'm not sure if Garmin fixed this issue but I'd be careful out there. It would really suck to lose all data for the bike portion. As far as losing having it die for the run it's really not that much of a problem. You get to the run and do what feels right. You can have goal paces in mind but you're rarely hitting them. If you wear the 310xt during the swim, don't wear it on your wrist. Wear it between two caps. Last year it was cold enough to wear a neoprene cap in addition to the provided cap so it worked perfectly. I have used the data from my Garmin as much or more after the race than I did during. I would post the link to my Garmin data from IMCDA 2010 if I was so afraid of the comments I'd get.
Interesting. I was not even planning on wearing my 310xt during the swim. Too much downside if you get your head ripped off and it sinks. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Yeah ^^^. Likewise, I got my head ripped off at IMAZ in 2009 but I grew another one back on. Then I got killed at IMFL 2010 swim but I got better. The funny thing is my Garmin 310xt is still working fine and I have had no problems with the wrist band. Perhaps my headless and lifeless body fought back well. I am not sure. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2011-03-15 10:18 AM 4) Use it 'til it dies. If your bike and run combine to longer than the life of the 305, then chances are you are in survival mode by the time your unit dies any way. At that point, you should be focused on doing what you can do, not expending the mental energy of obsessing about your splits/pace/HR. That's the truth. Once you get to mile 18 or so on the run, I'm sure I really won't care what the watch says. In fact, I may not want to know what it says. I was planning to wear a timex on my other wrist to keep track of my overall time. Does anyone else do this? |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2011-03-15 1:08 PM Yeah ^^^. Likewise, I got my head ripped off at IMAZ in 2009 but I grew another one back on. Then I got killed at IMFL 2010 swim but I got better. The funny thing is my Garmin 310xt is still working fine and I have had no problems with the wrist band. Perhaps my headless and lifeless body fought back well. I am not sure. It was only a flesh wound... |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Nice one Britt! http://www.zazzle.com/black_knight_merely_a_flesh_wound_tshirt-235121813438893329 This reminds me. We did BT shirts for IMFL for 1. sherpas and 2. triathletes. Are we doing that for IMCDA? See above for an idea haha |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Having booked lodging for both, IMCdA is CHEAP compared to Lake Placid. You also have a slightly larger window to find a good place without getting a second morgage. Many LP regulars will book their house for next year the monday after the race. For CdA, just do your homework and book right away after the 2011 race and you can get something downtown for less than $150 a night. Stay a few minutes outside of town (Post Falls) and you can pay even less. If you check out the first 10 or so pages of this thread, I think there was quite a bit of conversation about where people were lodging, as well as open hotels weeks or even months later. Josh, Thanks. That is quite helpful and I will look at the first few pages (I know I probably should have done that in the first place). |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks for all the advice on the run course elevation and garmin options, very helpful to hear vets experiences and work these small nits out ahead of time. GREATLY APPRECIATED!! I'll do some testing and thinking through these options in the coming weeks. Since no one recommended the Timex Global Trainer, I assume the Garmin FR310XT is best option. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I own both and gravitate toward the garmin. my wife says the timex is bulky and harder to read than the garmin. however, i think you will find alot of folks like their timex (and some who complain about one or the other) and its a less expensive option. for example, all3sports.com has a 50$ rebate and you can get a 15% discount on your first order there if you track their pros on twitter (matty reed, carfrae, alexander) |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mdfahy - 2011-03-15 7:53 PM Thanks for all the advice on the run course elevation and garmin options, very helpful to hear vets experiences and work these small nits out ahead of time. GREATLY APPRECIATED!! I'll do some testing and thinking through these options in the coming weeks. Since no one recommended the Timex Global Trainer, I assume the Garmin FR310XT is best option.
I have the 305 and 310xt. What's interesting about the difference other than the battery life is the GPS lock. I swear I can get the 310 to lock a signal in places where the 305 is always searching. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Damn. Never seen this chart before. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() How do they determine how "challenging" the race is? I'm baffled by some of those ratings. The most common sense way, for me, to rate how hard a course is would be to look at the average finish time of the top X male and top X female finishers. I'd probably choose 100 or so. By that metric, that chart is way off. Also -- what makes a race challenging for one person might not impact another person at all. Just as a quick example I don't really mind a hilly bike (Lake Placid was my first)... in fact I prefer it to keep the race legal (break up draft groups). But put me in Louisville heat/humidity and I am a likely DNF. To eliminate the subjectivity, I think the best metric is finish times. Since all these courses are 140.6 miles long... if it takes longer to finish race X than it does race Y than it does race Z, then they deserve to be ranked in that order of difficulty IMHO. I can see finish time on his X-axis... but I'm not sure whose finish times they are. If it's the same person who has done 25 different races, then it's balogna because it doesn't account for fitness. I can't figure out where the numbers come from since it's obviously not the overall winner's time. Edited by JoshKaptur 2011-03-16 6:16 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2011-03-16 6:13 AM How do they determine how "challenging" the race is? I'm baffled by some of those ratings. The most common sense way, for me, to rate how hard a course is would be to look at the average finish time of the top X male and top X female finishers. I'd probably choose 100 or so. By that metric, that chart is way off. Also -- what makes a race challenging for one person might not impact another person at all. Just as a quick example I don't really mind a hilly bike (Lake Placid was my first)... in fact I prefer it to keep the race legal (break up draft groups). But put me in Louisville heat/humidity and I am a likely DNF. To eliminate the subjectivity, I think the best metric is finish times. Since all these courses are 140.6 miles long... if it takes longer to finish race X than it does race Y than it does race Z, then they deserve to be ranked in that order of difficulty IMHO. I can see finish time on his X-axis... but I'm not sure whose finish times they are. If it's the same person who has done 25 different races, then it's balogna because it doesn't account for fitness. I can't figure out where the numbers come from since it's obviously not the overall winner's time. The chart is obviously messed up, because of the fact that CdA only attracts the fastest, strongest, nicest and best looking athletes. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Josh When I hit up that site, my memory may fail me, but they took into account a lot of factors to determine difficulty of IM and there was some onging process of taking input from the st.com crowd and editing until they got to that place. Have a look when you get time. Not to say certain courses don't suit certain triathletes (See Friel's new book for that discussion in Chapter 1), but I think its an aggregate thing...
here is the cut and paste Hardest Ironman Course? Easiest? RunTri's 25 Toughest Ironman Races
By Raymond Britt -- RunTri analyzed nearly 50,000 triathletes competing in 25 Ironman distance triathlons to answer the question: which Ironman triathlon is hardest? Easiest? Results: Top 5 Toughest Ironman Races: Kona, St. George, Wisconsin, Malaysia, Louisville, China.
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Still not impressed. I prefer several of the alternative metrics, most noteably the table you previously posted with the KQ cutoff for each age group and each race. Averaging EVERYONE's finish time doesn't test the difficulty of the course. It demonstrates the propensity for each race of people to show up well trained. In other words, it assumes that in general there is the same percentrage of people who show up to each race with respect to fitness/ability/age/preparedness. Plus the mitigating factors he mentions (eg, weather) are "corrected" but he doesn't say what his methodology was for that. In fact, i don't think it should be corrected... propensity for bad weather should show up in the "challenging" index, and it will if you simply look at the finish times of the top athletes (or if you prefer, KQ cutoff). In the end, I cry BS and say they've overcomplicated it. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I like their stuff but yes, its a matter of deabte. ANother issue I am looking at is caffeine use on IM days. Jorge first promoted a caffeine taper but recent research seems to counter the caffeine taper. Nobody debates that it has a performance and possibly recovery enhancing effect. Friel tweeted a link to this today http://www.endurancecorner.com/Mimi_Winsberg/energy_drinks Key point is that "Performance enhancing doses of caffeine are in the range of (phatknot add: i think a standard cup of joe is about 80-90mg) 100-200mg 30-60 minutes before the onset of exercise and then 100mg every four hours after that. Athletes must be aware of the doses of caffeine in energy drinks, gels, or other supplements, and manage their doses accordingly during workouts and races." What are your thoughts on caffeine on the big day? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I intend to taper for it, and use it, but only during the run (when I feel like it will come most in handy). This mostly comes from the fear that, if I start caffeine too early, I will need it continuously for the rest of the day. Besides, I dont want my HR any higher than it needs to be. I did this with coke in races before, and was always sure to start at the last half of the run (god forbid a caffeine/sugar crash). I also use gels with a bit of caffeine in it, though not enough to really make a difference IMO. Since we are on the topic of nutrition related stuff, I have 2 if anyone cares to share insight. 1) Is CdA a warm enough place to really worry about salt/electrolytes? I intend to have salt tabs on the run, but not really considering it on the bike. I use Infinit for all of my bike nutrition, so that should take care of all of my salt needs, but was concerned on the run. 2) Along the same lines of Infinit, how many of you use it? And if so, how concentrated do you think you can get it? The most I have tried is 3 hrs in a 20oz bottle, and it was fine chasing with water. I am considering doing 6hr concentrate, almost to he point of being a gelatinous slush to keep down the number of bottles I have on the bike, and take it like I would do gel shots. I just dont know if this is a good idea or not (though I am sure I will try multiple times in training to get it right. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Umm, so I love caffeine. It and endorphins (or whatever it is our bodies create) are my favorite drugs. I don't try to overdue it on the caffeine, but I do us it in daily life and in training. I like the caffeinated gels (Espresso Luv...mmm), and I have caffeine in my Infinit mix. My body is used to it, and I can tell in long distance racing/training, how if I don't use it that my body starts to get sluggish. Do I have a specific caffeine plan? No. Maybe I should? Either way, I use it. Infinit- I've gone as concentrated as a 3.5 hours in a 20 oz bottle. Not sure if I'd want to go more than that though...hmm, definitely helps with less to carry on the bike (I did two bottles for IMAZ last time and just picked up water at aid stations and dumped it in the aero bottle). I do know, towards the end of the bike, while I didn't have any problem taking in the Infinit still, I started burping it, and that was a little odd--not sure if concentrating it would make that less of an issue or no. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have yet to figure out what my nutrition issues are. The only thing I had constant in my last two races (Bolder 70.3 and Denver Rock and Roll marathon) were Gels. For my Marathon I used Gels and water with some Sports drink. At the end of both I wanted to give my lunch up. I’ve been told to cut caffeine and not use Gels for 70.3 CA. Hopefully I’ll have it spot on for IMCDA. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 1) Is CdA a warm enough place to really worry about salt/electrolytes? I intend to have salt tabs on the run, but not really considering it on the bike. I use Infinit for all of my bike nutrition, so that should take care of all of my salt needs, but was concerned on the run. It is a complete crapshoot. Last year was somewhere close to 90 degrees. 2009 was mid 40s and drizzle all day. In addition to what I saw listed on their website, some of the run aid stations also had soup broth and potato chips. So you can get additional salt even if you're just living off the course. 2) Along the same lines of Infinit, how many of you use it? And if so, how concentrated do you think you can get it? The most I have tried is 3 hrs in a 20oz bottle, and it was fine chasing with water. I am considering doing 6hr concentrate, almost to he point of being a gelatinous slush to keep down the number of bottles I have on the bike, and take it like I would do gel shots. I just dont know if this is a good idea or not (though I am sure I will try multiple times in training to get it right. I had one bottle with a stronger mix of Perpetuem last year (~3 hr) and my front bottle with plain water. But I don't like sipping concentrated drinks even if I chase them with water. This year I'm going to mostly live off the course and ditch the xlab wing. Probably will bring a clif bar or something as backup. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() spudone - 2011-03-17 1:11 PM This year I'm going to mostly live off the course and ditch the xlab wing. Probably will bring a clif bar or something as backup. I wish I could do this, but I like using an all-in-one system right now (Infinit). If I switched to going off course only, I would have to a) learn to like Ironman Endurance and b) mix and match gels/bars/bananas/etc to get my calories in. Too many variables for me to want to care about. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 15step - 2011-03-17 1:36 PM spudone - 2011-03-17 1:11 PM This year I'm going to mostly live off the course and ditch the xlab wing. Probably will bring a clif bar or something as backup. I wish I could do this, but I like using an all-in-one system right now (Infinit). If I switched to going off course only, I would have to a) learn to like Ironman Endurance and b) mix and match gels/bars/bananas/etc to get my calories in. Too many variables for me to want to care about.
Just a factual correction - you'd need to learn to like Powerbar Perform, not "ironman endurance" (I suspect you meant gatorade endurance?). Nutrition is highly personal, and I'm not one to suggest people give up what's working. I will simply say that to the extent you can live of course, you'll have an easier race. I had a regular gatorade in my aero bottle at the start of the bike and a cliff bar in my jersey, but otherwise lived completely off course for my IM. Just shy of a full bottle of PB perform and a swig of water (the rest dumped over my head and ditched) consumed between each aid station was the perfect amount of calories/electrolytes/water for me (at my speed, given the weather on that day). I felt fueled and not thirsty and was not forced to urinate on the bike. I did eat about half of my cliff bar on each lap as well, and backed off on the amount I was drinking... basically skipped the last aid station to allow my stomach to empty some before the run. Likewise, a cup or two of whatever I felt like at each run aid station go the job done. I tended to gravitate more towards coke on the run, simply because I was tired of PB perfomr (even though they had different flavors on the run than on the bike). I've given some thought to whether I would have been able to adapt using just on-course nutrition had it been hotter or colder, which would have required an adjustment to the ratio of calories/water consumed. Not sure of the answer... just wanted to provide a n=1 example of living of the course successfully. MOST digestive troubles result from a combo of two things... eating/drinking too much, and going too hard. For most of us, I do not think there is anything magical about the ingredients in two competing sports drinks that are essentially nutritionally identical. I'm not saying that about infitinit, which I understand can be customized some... but most people who loved gatorade endurance and blamed PB perform were skapegoating the drink for their poor nutritional/pacing execution... IMHO. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I meant to say Powerbar Perform, whatever it is called that they have on course. I like my current setup a lot right now, and dont have any issues with it. I guess I need to talk to my coach about it. I am still working on building back up to long rides again (3 hrs max right now) and once I hit 4+ again, I will start dialing in on nutrition options. I love to go minimalist while racing, and if I can handle what is provided for me on race day, then that would be ideal. Update on progress, I did a swim set yesterday and got a PB on 100m time of 1:16. Change this from 1:35-1:40 a few months ago. And this is only 2-3 sessions a week. Anyone doubting Masters sessions should really look into it! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Anyone use PBJs on the bike portion? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 3Aims - 2011-03-18 7:47 AM Anyone use PBJs on the bike portion? I do! Uncrustables are the most amazing Ironman food ever ![]() One time on a 100 mile ride coming off the a bout of flu when my stomach revolted against my usual nutrition I subsisted on water, salt tabs and Uncrustables. LOVE THEM!!!! |
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