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Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) (Page 66)
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 2015-04-17 11:29 AM in reply to: popsracer |
 Seattle |  Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?)My cousin and I ran up to a peak for sunrise (coffee and breakfast at the top) Coincidentally the average grade is 11%
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| 2015-04-17 11:33 AM in reply to: popsracer |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. |
| 2015-04-17 11:35 AM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Master 10208  Northern IL | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! These are for familiarity and sharpness. 1. I'd go with times like you said and about estimated HIM pace. Cut it shorter if it seems to get hard. Familiarity with running at HIM race pace for a bit. 2. T-pace or a little faster is fine for all 3 activities on the day. You can go with 5k pacing for the run. It's a sharpening thing. Making sure you can still move quick. It's ok to be generous on the rest too. You're not trying to build a training stimulus. Just be used to moving plenty fast. Faster than race pacing for all three so that race pacing seems rather easy to do. It bothers me that this plan doesn't tell you what the purpose is. But I still don't know about this whole familiarity thing. That's just a long time to be spending running at what I imagine is a more taxing pace when you aren't honing specific things like vo2max or LT. To me, it seems like a bit time and energy suck with little reward. BUT remember, I am not a triathlete so I don't really have a gauge on what the HIM race pace is. Yeah, I know what you mean. Some people like the simplicity of not having so much to read, but they do tend to leave out some important things at times. This was just my interpretation of the plan. Not sure I'd actually do exactly that myself. |
| 2015-04-17 11:48 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6520  Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. I guess I was thinking along the lines of 200's at R pace. Or maybe a tad slower. Just enough to keep the legs stimulated. With generous rest between should be pretty easy. And awesome run this morning. Stunningly beautiful. What a way to start the day. Edited by popsracer 2015-04-17 11:49 AM |
| 2015-04-17 11:54 AM in reply to: popsracer |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. I guess I was thinking along the lines of 200's at R pace. Or maybe a tad slower. Just enough to keep the legs stimulated. With generous rest between should be pretty easy. That would be a lot longer than a 200 for me. And what is stimulation of the legs going to do? It seems like it's falling in that no mans land. Too slow for a rep and too fast for an interval. I would feel like the purpose of a stride itself...running economy, speed, turnover...would maybe suffer or decline over the distance. I dunno.
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| 2015-04-17 12:10 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6520 Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. I guess I was thinking along the lines of 200's at R pace. Or maybe a tad slower. Just enough to keep the legs stimulated. With generous rest between should be pretty easy. That would be a lot longer than a 200 for me. And what is stimulation of the legs going to do? It seems like it's falling in that no mans land. Too slow for a rep and too fast for an interval. I would feel like the purpose of a stride itself...running economy, speed, turnover...would maybe suffer or decline over the distance. I dunno.
My R pace is :45 for 200 and 1:32 for 400. In this situation, I'd be inclined to just do 5 x 200 since I'm familar with it. BUT, inserting any speed work into a plan that has virtually none during taper week may not be the best idea either. That's why if I had not been doing any quality I'd back off on the effort just a tad to minimize risk of a really, really unfortunate injury. Edited by popsracer 2015-04-17 12:11 PM |
| 2015-04-17 12:12 PM in reply to: jmkizer |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? Well... I hate to second guess someone else's plan. At this point, though, the hay is in the barn and I don't suppose you'd be asking if you were 100% comfortable with what it says. I'll leave it there and add the the weekend before my first HIM, I had the following: Saturday: Ride 90 min (z1-2) then run 10 min (z2) + swim = warm up 2x800 @ 2 min with spot forward 1x per 100, cool down Sunday: run 40 min (z2)
2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! I think that by Fast they mean something like strides Sean, I have never done a long course event, so I'll keep this to the things I have learned:
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| 2015-04-17 12:17 PM in reply to: popsracer |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. I guess I was thinking along the lines of 200's at R pace. Or maybe a tad slower. Just enough to keep the legs stimulated. With generous rest between should be pretty easy. That would be a lot longer than a 200 for me. And what is stimulation of the legs going to do? It seems like it's falling in that no mans land. Too slow for a rep and too fast for an interval. I would feel like the purpose of a stride itself...running economy, speed, turnover...would maybe suffer or decline over the distance. I dunno.
My R pace is :45 for 200 and 1:32 for 400. In this situation, I'd be inclined to just do 5 x 200 since I'm familar with it. BUT, inserting any speed work into a plan that has virtually none during taper week may not be the best idea either. That's why if I had not been doing any quality I'd back off on the effort just a tad to minimize risk of a really, really unfortunate injury. I didn't use Daniels in this case because it would be much too fast, both for the tempo & shorter 1' work. Those are both trying to drive an adaptation and I don't think that's quite the point here. The entire day for the 5 x 1' is something like swim 5 x 50 fast, bike 5 x 2' fast, and run 5 x 1' fast. |
| 2015-04-17 12:20 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. I guess I was thinking along the lines of 200's at R pace. Or maybe a tad slower. Just enough to keep the legs stimulated. With generous rest between should be pretty easy. That would be a lot longer than a 200 for me. And what is stimulation of the legs going to do? It seems like it's falling in that no mans land. Too slow for a rep and too fast for an interval. I would feel like the purpose of a stride itself...running economy, speed, turnover...would maybe suffer or decline over the distance. I dunno.
My R pace is :45 for 200 and 1:32 for 400. In this situation, I'd be inclined to just do 5 x 200 since I'm familar with it. BUT, inserting any speed work into a plan that has virtually none during taper week may not be the best idea either. That's why if I had not been doing any quality I'd back off on the effort just a tad to minimize risk of a really, really unfortunate injury. I didn't use Daniels in this case because it would be much too fast, both for the tempo & shorter 1' work. Those are both trying to drive an adaptation and I don't think that's quite the point here. The entire day for the 5 x 1' is something like swim 5 x 50 fast, bike 5 x 2' fast, and run 5 x 1' fast. So, would you do something like this for sharpening for a HIM?
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| 2015-04-17 12:21 PM in reply to: cdban66 |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? Well... I hate to second guess someone else's plan. At this point, though, the hay is in the barn and I don't suppose you'd be asking if you were 100% comfortable with what it says. I'll leave it there and add the the weekend before my first HIM, I had the following: Saturday: Ride 90 min (z1-2) then run 10 min (z2) + swim = warm up 2x800 @ 2 min with spot forward 1x per 100, cool down Sunday: run 40 min (z2)
2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! I think that by Fast they mean something like strides Sean, I have never done a long course event, so I'll keep this to the things I have learned:
Do you feel we are getting too hung up on the technical stuff? |
| 2015-04-17 12:26 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Pro 6520 Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Yeah. All of this. I think this is more or less what I feel too. Again, with no HIM experience.
I also question those 5 x 1. 1' is a long azz stride. I guess I was thinking along the lines of 200's at R pace. Or maybe a tad slower. Just enough to keep the legs stimulated. With generous rest between should be pretty easy. That would be a lot longer than a 200 for me. And what is stimulation of the legs going to do? It seems like it's falling in that no mans land. Too slow for a rep and too fast for an interval. I would feel like the purpose of a stride itself...running economy, speed, turnover...would maybe suffer or decline over the distance. I dunno.
My R pace is :45 for 200 and 1:32 for 400. In this situation, I'd be inclined to just do 5 x 200 since I'm familar with it. BUT, inserting any speed work into a plan that has virtually none during taper week may not be the best idea either. That's why if I had not been doing any quality I'd back off on the effort just a tad to minimize risk of a really, really unfortunate injury. I didn't use Daniels in this case because it would be much too fast, both for the tempo & shorter 1' work. Those are both trying to drive an adaptation and I don't think that's quite the point here. The entire day for the 5 x 1' is something like swim 5 x 50 fast, bike 5 x 2' fast, and run 5 x 1' fast. So, would you do something like this for sharpening for a HIM?
I think the sharpening (at least for the 5 x 1') is already done. I think the purpose is just to prevent staleness from creeping in. |
| 2015-04-17 12:32 PM in reply to: cdban66 |
| 812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? Well... I hate to second guess someone else's plan. At this point, though, the hay is in the barn and I don't suppose you'd be asking if you were 100% comfortable with what it says. I'll leave it there and add the the weekend before my first HIM, I had the following: Saturday: Ride 90 min (z1-2) then run 10 min (z2) + swim = warm up 2x800 @ 2 min with spot forward 1x per 100, cool down Sunday: run 40 min (z2)  2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! I think that by Fast they mean something like strides Sean, I have never done a long course event, so I'll keep this to the things I have learned:
Great perspective as always, Chris. Thank you. |
| 2015-04-17 12:34 PM in reply to: Jet Black |
| 812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Thanks everybody so much for all the awesome insight. You all seem to have confirmed my suspicion that I should dial these efforts back some in either intensity or duration. |
| 2015-04-17 12:40 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? Well... I hate to second guess someone else's plan. At this point, though, the hay is in the barn and I don't suppose you'd be asking if you were 100% comfortable with what it says. I'll leave it there and add the the weekend before my first HIM, I had the following: Saturday: Ride 90 min (z1-2) then run 10 min (z2) + swim = warm up 2x800 @ 2 min with spot forward 1x per 100, cool down Sunday: run 40 min (z2)
2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! I think that by Fast they mean something like strides Sean, I have never done a long course event, so I'll keep this to the things I have learned:
Do you feel we are getting too hung up on the technical stuff? yes |
| 2015-04-17 12:42 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? Well... I hate to second guess someone else's plan. At this point, though, the hay is in the barn and I don't suppose you'd be asking if you were 100% comfortable with what it says. I'll leave it there and add the the weekend before my first HIM, I had the following: Saturday: Ride 90 min (z1-2) then run 10 min (z2) + swim = warm up 2x800 @ 2 min with spot forward 1x per 100, cool down Sunday: run 40 min (z2)
2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! I think that by Fast they mean something like strides Sean, I have never done a long course event, so I'll keep this to the things I have learned:
Do you feel we are getting too hung up on the technical stuff? yes It was a subtle hint |
| 2015-04-17 12:45 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by popsracer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well.  I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned.  With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast?  Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run.  http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Ok, here we go into a pacing discussion again. Sorry folks, LOL!! Steve - I'm hoping to split the HM @ 8:00/mi. Starting out around 8:30 for the first ~3 miles, then picking up to 8 for the next 6-7, then giving it all I got on the last 3. Here you seem to suggest that my HIM pace would be slower than 8/mi (based on my 10k time I'm assuming). I'm wondering if I'm planning to be too aggressive. One thing out of what you said that supports my target is VDOT (which is the same as V02 max, right?) My watch seems to think my V02max is 50 after a hard session (is says 48 after easy sessions, guess I'm not as efficient running slower). I've definitely gained a lot of fitness since that 10k, but I don't remember what my V02 max was then. Trying to see if garmin saves the historical data on that. Edited by Jet Black 2015-04-17 12:47 PM |
| 2015-04-17 12:47 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? Well... I hate to second guess someone else's plan. At this point, though, the hay is in the barn and I don't suppose you'd be asking if you were 100% comfortable with what it says. I'll leave it there and add the the weekend before my first HIM, I had the following: Saturday: Ride 90 min (z1-2) then run 10 min (z2) + swim = warm up 2x800 @ 2 min with spot forward 1x per 100, cool down Sunday: run 40 min (z2)
2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! I think that by Fast they mean something like strides Sean, I have never done a long course event, so I'll keep this to the things I have learned:
Do you feel we are getting too hung up on the technical stuff? Not at all. One of the awesome parts of being a member of this group is the vast array of perspectives, because all perspectives are valuable. Some folks are technical in their approach, others are less so. Mine is less so. I do remember my first race, really my first race season or even 2, as somewhat feeling like I was drinking from a firehouse of information and experience. It can overwhelm someone, if they let it. I can only imagine the feeling of jumping into a HIM and having the time during taper to think through everything about a race of that size. Honestly, I believe this is year 4 for me, and I'm only beginning to get comfortable with some of it. Heck, I still can't get the mental aspect down. I guess I'm a slow learner and I'm OK with that. |
| 2015-04-17 1:04 PM in reply to: Jet Black |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! Great discussion around this so far, with much to take away from it. For the peak/taper weeks for a tri, I've always thought of them doing two things. Shedding fatigue (and that means letting some fitness slip, of course) and making the workouts increasingly race-like (so I can execute my plan better on race day - body and mind get used to what I'm going to ask of it, but in bite-sized chunks). My last peak week workout is Sunday (one race-like session with a swim and a b/r every three days, with easy easy easy workouts between for the peak week or weeks). The peak weeks have slightly less volume but a lot less intensity than build weeks. But the intensity of those sessions every three days is at race intensity (so, for a HIM, not blazing fast). This gets the body used to what you'll ask of it on race day, allows you to start shedding fatigue but maintain decent fitness (the reduction in volume is only like 10-20% from the highest build weeks). For this Sunday's workout, it's a swim at race pace (warmup then I think 15' at race pace - maybe 10? Have to check the skedj but around that) then a w/u and 4x8' or 9' at race pace/power on the bike and a 20' run at HIM pace off the bike, with a 10' cooldown. This one is a kind of a bike focus. Yesterday's (the next to last workout with intensity during the peak) was a run focus with a w/u then 15' at race power followed by 4x9' at race pace run off the bike, plus a swim session. The purpose is getting honed in on race intensity and what that feels like, so I can execute well on race day. I agree that a long tempo (what you describe) is longer than **I** would want to do this close to the race, as I would not get much adaptation from it for the race and it would inhibit shedding of fatigue. The taper week is more about shedding fatigue, but without getting dull (hay is in the barn, and you trade a LITTLE fitness for form). The way I approach this is lifted directly from Joe Friel's approach. For a Sunday race, Monday off. T,W,TH do a decreasing amount of time in each sport with 4x, 3x, then2x (on Thursday) 90" at RACE pace, which (as was pointed out - by Steve?) will feel crazy easy. Then a day off Friday and an easy session in s/b/r with a 90" race pace interval in each the day prior to the race. Just one approach of many, but has worked for me to shed fatigue but keep the "edge" sharp. OK, prolly more than you want and prolly raises more questions! Just **my** approach, although overlaps with much of what's been written, certainly. Hopefully helpful, though. Matt |
| 2015-04-17 1:15 PM in reply to: Jet Black |
Pro 6520 Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Originally posted by Jet Black Originally posted by popsracer Ok, here we go into a pacing discussion again. Sorry folks, LOL!! Steve - I'm hoping to split the HM @ 8:00/mi. Starting out around 8:30 for the first ~3 miles, then picking up to 8 for the next 6-7, then giving it all I got on the last 3. Here you seem to suggest that my HIM pace would be slower than 8/mi (based on my 10k time I'm assuming). I'm wondering if I'm planning to be too aggressive. One thing out of what you said that supports my target is VDOT (which is the same as V02 max, right?) My watch seems to think my V02max is 50 after a hard session (is says 48 after easy sessions, guess I'm not as efficient running slower). I've definitely gained a lot of fitness since that 10k, but I don't remember what my V02 max was then. Trying to see if garmin saves the historical data on that. Originally posted by Jet Black Ok, need some help/advice. I've been using the free HIM 20 week RPE plan all along and am now a little over a week out from race day. A couple of questions... 1. I've got an 80 min tempo run this sunday (where they conveniently left out how long the tempo part should be). It shows 15 min warmup and that's it, so I'm guessing it should be 15 min warmup, 50 min tempo, 15 min cooldown. Does that sound good for a run one week out? Seems like it's too long to me. Should my tempo section be my hopeful race pace? 2. Tuesday I've got a run with 5x1 min "fast." How fast should fast be? 5k pace? Mile pace? With this plan there has been almost zero going fast and this worries me a little only a few days before the race. I think I'd be fine going at 5k pace, so I'll probably just do that (and I'm probably over thinking it too). Thoughts? Thanks! As we both know there are some things in the plan that probably are not ideal but a great overall plan that I think will serve you very well. I mentioned before that I'm following the plan but I've modified it here and there based on what I've learned. With a little over a week, the hay is definately in the barn and I'd see this as maybe that last pass on the grinding wheel to sharpen the sword before your taper week. First, let's assume you want to do a 50 minute tempo run. How fast? Jack Daniels has a chart for figuring pace of an extended tempo run. According to his training method, a tempo run is generally about 20 minutes but can be lengthened but pace will diminish. Here is a link to figuring your VDOT and what your pace would be for a 50 minute tempo run. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot?page=single Let's assume a 45 minute 10k which would give you a VDOT of about 45. This translates on the second chart to a 20 minute tempo run of 7:25 pace and a 50 minute tempo run of 7:44 pace. That's probably close to a very hard open HM effort. Personally, I think that is too much at this stage of the game. I'd be more inclined to back off to about an 8:00 pace at best, maybe not even that. If fact, I'd probably do it close to your target HIM pace which realistically should feel pretty easy for this workout. As for the 5 x 1 minute runs, I'd also view those like strides. They are not intended to build fitness but to keep the already sharp sword sharp. I'd rest adequately between each one. Again, they should feel pretty easy. I'd think of it like doing 5 x 100 in the pool with a minute rest between. Strong but easy. Just warning you. After all the work you have done the taper week is going to drive you crazy. Try to relax. It is normal to start feeling (imaging) lots of aches and pains. You've done great up to this point learning your lessons well and I'm very confident you are going to crush this race. Can't wait to hear your epic story. Well, given that this is much more fun than work. Pacing is key in an HIM. THE key. I know from experience the hard way with some very miserable runs. You Sean are a lot smarter than I was. You've shown that all along the way. I do base my assumptions on your 10k in February as that is the last hard data point I have. Let's say you are now running a 44 minute 10k, that puts you at a 1:38 HM or about a 7:30 pace according to McMillan calculator. To drop 30 seconds a mile on the run leg of an HIM over an open HM would be doing pretty good. Now you are a stronger cyclist than I am so I'm looking at that aspect through my own eyes. I think starting out at 8:30 and letting the run come to you is a great idea. You do not want to force it, dig a hole for yourself, and than trudge the last few miles. Once you cross the sucky threshold it's tough to bounce back. Stay on the good side of that threshold as long as you can. |
| 2015-04-17 1:25 PM in reply to: IndoIronYanti |
Master 6595 Rio Rancho, NM | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Speaking of training plans... As I taper in to my marathon I am, of course, starting to think about my training for the PPA. I am thinking that I will do, on a weekly basis, one LR of the up a mountain sort, one DM incline session, and 2 or 3 nearby offroad runs, and a cross training day of bike or sumthin. Where I get unsure is duration/intensity of these sessions and how long to recover after the marathon. I am still wondering if I should have Coach Michi help me put something together and stay on track. I'll be seeing her tomorrow and want to have an idea whether to hire her or not. Thoughts? |
| 2015-04-17 1:26 PM in reply to: popsracer |
Extreme Veteran 2263 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) In all of the race plans I followed last year the peak training weeks were the week before my goal race, and they were always the highest in volume and intensity. I remember after my last big week for my first goal race, which was a Sprint on Saturday followed by an Olympic on Sunday I thought I had screwed myself. I hadn't been that tired leading up to a race in a long time. My race week schedule was a lot lighter however, and by Saturday I was ready to roll. Placed 3rd in my AG in one of the more competitive sprints in my area, and I PR'd my Oly with a 2:14. Everybody is different, but I feel like a lot of people overthink tapering. They think that once they're two weeks out from race day that they don't have to do anything, and they end up shedding a lot more fitness than they had to for the sake of losing fatigue. In a semi related note, the bike shop I race for is sponsoring a local HIM that's being put on, and it looks like I'm being given a spot for the race. Looks like I may race a triathlon this year after all. One day I'll have to venture to the pool again. |
| 2015-04-17 1:28 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Coincidentally. And to think that you just wrote, "But I still don't know about this whole familiarity thing."
Originally posted by Asalzwed My cousin and I ran up to a peak for sunrise (coffee and breakfast at the top) Coincidentally the average grade is 11%
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| 2015-04-17 1:36 PM in reply to: jmkizer |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Racing Manatees! A listing of Manatee Races, Rides and Runs and other events |
| 2015-04-17 1:41 PM in reply to: jmkizer |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) Last week, as I was thinking about my goals for RnR Raleigh, I thought about a "race contract" that a podcast that I used to listen to put together. I was wondering how you would feel about putting together a Manatee version? Here's their version: Race Contract* |
| 2015-04-17 1:43 PM in reply to: jmkizer |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?)
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