Mad Manatees 2015.3 CLOSED (or Poptarts? Pet pics?) (Page 67)

Allrighty podmates, before I even toe the line at PPA my mind is rushing ahead to "what's next". I'll wait until after Pikes Peak to pull the trigger on another race but I need that next goal on the horizon.  There are two(ish) races I have my eye on.

The Ouray Trail Run is September 26th, six weeks after PPA and is 13 miles of up n down. 

The Moab Trail Half Marathon is November 7th, twelve weeks after PPA and is 13.1 miles of up n down.

A third one I sorta have my eye on is local, in Santa Fe, on Ocotber 3rd and is six miles up and then 6 miles back down.

I'd like to get in one or two more trail races before the snow settles on the mountains and I can't anymore. The Santa Fe one will be if I decide not to do the Denver Hot Chocolate which is that same weekend.

Thoughts on timing and/or on doing one or two?

Can't comment on timing but I'd definitely say do a trail race rather than the Hot Chocolate.  Not that I wouldn't love to see you, but I bet you'd enjoy a trail race a whole lot more.

That one is a week after Ouray so there's that...

I would wait and see how you like PPA first.

Then I guess it depends on how you want to run them. You could hypothetically do them all so long as you have built up properly and do them conservatively.

Are they at risk of selling out? What comes after October? Of all those races, I bet recovery is the longest with the Santa Fe up then down, although I'd have to see the course profile.

Which one runs along the side of a mountain???? I mean, with your legs and all...

Ouray

Santa Fe Couldn't find an elevation profile. The explorers haven't made it here yet

Moab

Well, how much true up and down running have you done? Have you done any long descents of 1k-2k? How did you feel the next day? Obviously the Ouray race is much more difficult that Moab in pretty much every way possible. Depending on your answer to the first question, you may not be able to do both. What are you looking for? What do you like about the two races?

You could probably do Moab and Santa Fe but likely not Ouray and Santa Fe unless you go extremely easy at Ouray and basically walk those descents.

I'd be inclined to run the Santa Fe because of the opportunity to explore local trails. But that's just me. 

I'm gonna skip all of the timing and technical stuff and ask about your heart.  What kind of training do you want to do?  Where do you really want to go? I mean, if you really love Moab, go to Moab, etc.

I'm sure there was no pun intended...

I'm with Janyne on this one.  Which one/s do you want to do? Or you could follow Chris's advise and pick the one that let's you run along the side of the mountain 

Originally posted by rrrunner Ha! Chris that's awesome. I'll just see which one has me situated with my right side pointed uphill I really like all three. Both Miab and Ouray are great places for destination races. I loved the trail I did in Ouray last weekend! The last time I raced in Moab I was duly humbled. That place is a beast, but the cooler November temps would help. All of my trail training runs, with the exception of three, have been up and back down. They've been at a slower pace, though, as I usually stayed with DS1 for the trip down. The local one would be an opportunity to meet local trail runners. Goals? Push myself and have fun.

Depending on how much you want to develop your relationship with your new man, you might want to reconsider that approach.

Originally posted by rrrunner Ha! Chris that's awesome. I'll just see which one has me situated with my right side pointed uphill I really like all three. Both Miab and Ouray are great places for destination races. I loved the trail I did in Ouray last weekend! The last time I raced in Moab I was duly humbled. That place is a beast, but the cooler November temps would help. All of my trail training runs, with the exception of three, have been up and back down. They've been at a slower pace, though, as I usually stayed with DS1 for the trip down. The local one would be an opportunity to meet local trail runners. Goals? Push myself and have fun.

Well, I like that you can do both Santa Fe and Moab. The more the better!

Another thing to keep in mind, you don't have to do a race to go out and explore! Whatever races you don't end up doing, just make a training run. Go there, maybe do some of the course, maybe just run the area and not the course at all. Bring DH. That is the most beautiful thing about fitness is that it can get you places. You can use it to see such incredible, beautiful places. 

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by rrrunner Ha! Chris that's awesome. I'll just see which one has me situated with my right side pointed uphill I really like all three. Both Miab and Ouray are great places for destination races. I loved the trail I did in Ouray last weekend! The last time I raced in Moab I was duly humbled. That place is a beast, but the cooler November temps would help. All of my trail training runs, with the exception of three, have been up and back down. They've been at a slower pace, though, as I usually stayed with DS1 for the trip down. The local one would be an opportunity to meet local trail runners. Goals? Push myself and have fun.

Well, I like that you can do both Santa Fe and Moab. The more the better!

Another thing to keep in mind, you don't have to do a race to go out and explore! Whatever races you don't end up doing, just make a training run. Go there, maybe do some of the course, maybe just run the area and not the course at all. Bring DH. That is the most beautiful thing about fitness is that it can get you places. You can use it to see such incredible, beautiful places. 

So true.  And it doesn't even have to be a training run for that matter.  When DH and I rode the bike route recently for my upcoming tri, even though he'd ridden it numerous times, he absolutely loved it.  It was a stunning ride along the base of the foothills in rural Boulder County.  The ride up in Evergreen was the same.  I found that I was all focused on the training aspect, whereas he was just enjoying the heck out of it.  Your comment really makes me want to go back and do those rides just for the fun of it, not for training/recon/racing purposes.

Anyone been following Symmonds? How about the IAAF drug cheats athletes list about to drop?

Originally posted by rrrunner Ha! Chris that's awesome. I'll just see which one has me situated with my right side pointed uphill I really like all three. Both Miab and Ouray are great places for destination races. I loved the trail I did in Ouray last weekend! The last time I raced in Moab I was duly humbled. That place is a beast, but the cooler November temps would help. All of my trail training runs, with the exception of three, have been up and back down. They've been at a slower pace, though, as I usually stayed with DS1 for the trip down. The local one would be an opportunity to meet local trail runners. Goals? Push myself and have fun.

So many races out there it truly is tough to have to pick a limited number to do.  I am of the mind that if you enjoy them and you can work out the logistics do them all.  They are all difficult but if you are throwing some good ascents/descents into your weekly training and do not have durability issues with joints, tendons, etc. then you should be fine.  You also do not have to max your effort on each one.  I have done many, many events (admittedly a few I probably shouldn't have done) just so I could live the experience.  Trail races especially bring you to such beautiful places that make it even harder to resist.

We have many great trail races around here and the number seems to just keep growing.  A lot of the more established ones sell out very quickly.  I just stumbled on a new one in September that I am going to try and squeeze in.  It is a 25k that is on the same trail as a 50k (Baker Lake) that I've wanted to do and  haven't been able to do because it is on the same day as another race I have been doing annually.  It is pretty addicting and I love the type of laid back bad azz folks that do this stuff.

Nick Symmonds is living out his convictions, and that is to be commended, since it is the "right" thing to do.  I'm not sure how many of us do that to that level.

I think I have given up on the "drugs in sports" discussion.  I've done enough wrong in my life that I realize the value of a second chance.  I also am not living my life in the public eye, nor do I have that kind of pressure to perform.  We all have job pressure, but I wonder at what level does doing the wrong, yet easy(probably not the right word) thing, become something we would look at?  It is easy for many of us to say we'd never do it, but we really aren't in that type of environment.  I'm not sure that the punishment of no participation ever is "fair", but I also know that "fair" is not what was done in the first place either.  When our kids were growing up, we often spoke of action and consequence.  That applies here somehow, I'm just not sure how long a punishment is long enough.  I do know this.  You can please some of the people some of the time, but EVERYONE will never happen. 

And to a certain degree, aren't both of these topics really the same? Aren't we speaking of simply doing the right thing?  This may be a stretch, but if we are discussing doing the right thing, shouldn't we hold those other Brooks, Asics, New Balance, etc sponsored athletes up to Nick's example of accountability in the same way we hold the drug users accountable?  I realize that the drugs are a written rule that was broken. I also realize that the sponsorship discussion is completely different.  But is it?  Is it black and white, or shades of gray?

In so far as Nike is concerned, IMO, they are wrong and I really am disgusted with them in all of this.  So what do I do with that conviction?  I know what my answer is, I'd love to see some others input on that.

Great points Chris. I'm not opposed to second chances, per se. The question is, however, how long after they finish doping are they still receiving the benefits? Some say as much as ten years. In my line of work, in addition to incarceration, we try to take away the benefits of the crime (although congress continues to make that harder) because otherwise they serve their time but still enjoy the profits of the crime. I see doping much the same. If we ban them for 2 years, when they come back are they still reaping the benefit of the doping?

As for Nike, I don't know what their agreement is with USAT. If USAT told them they get A, B and C then I can't fault them for expecting A, B and C. Just how much did USAT give up in that deal, and did they have the right to do so? Nike and USAT seem to make great bedfellows and unfortunately the athletes and their sponsors get the short end of the stick. Not sure what the answer is because that contract with Nike has a looooong period of time yet left on it.

TJ, when I read your original post about no second chances and then Chris's take on second chances I immediately thought the difference in the two stances are based upon the person's line of work/life experience.  You and I see and deal with people who constantly reap the benefit of criminal behavior.  We also know that the crime for which we've caught and are now punishing the person is not the first time he or she has ever committed a crime.  If it is, they are the most unlucky criminal ever!!  So, it is hard for us - I think- to be quick to extend a "second" chance to someone.  Certainly, people can and do change and as a society we are big on second chances, but they should be earned and the person should not still be reaping the benefit of his or her bad behavior.  All this said from the a jaded person's point of view  

Nick Symmonds is an amazing human being. I think it is just absolutely wonderful he is standing up for what he believes in (yet again. this is not some one off situation.) It's particularly amazing that he is doing it at a time when things are going amazingly well for him. Not once he is retired or on his way out. The way USATF handles some of these things is just WRONG. Track and field doesn't get a lot of publicity in general but when they do it's during these world championships and olympics. For them not to be able to talk about their sponsors or display their logos is just bad for the sport. Did anyone ever see this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BIHRUs6Ulo

As for doping. I won't even get into my feelings on cheating and the cheaters in the sport. Possibly more concerning is the IAAF knowing about these cheaters and not doing anything about it! It's so, so sad, the priorities of these governing bodies. 

TJ, I guess my point really is that I don't know enough to have an informed opinion. With doping playing such a large role in our sports experience (Baseball? Football? Cycling? Track and Field?) I am somewhat numb to the discussion.  Add to that my ignorance about the differing benefits of each different substance, and I am truly not the person to ask. The way it is going, how long is it until the legitimate sports world becomes like wrestling? Dig deep enough and I bet you'll find a bunch of the underpinings of sport is in a gray area anyway.  Be it money, drugs, deflated balls, or whatever else may be the driving force, I'm really challenged to find much purity or joy in professional sports.  So, I'll enjoy whatever athletic feats I see, but unfortunately, I find myself in less disbelief in any of the rest of it.

That said, after reading a bit about the Symmonds thing, I feel that when USATF sent the letter that stated "...pack ONLY Team USA, Nike or other non-branded apparel..." they stepped over the line.  No matter the agreement that was signed with USATF, the individual athlete has an obligation to their sponsor, since that is how they make a living.  I understand that Nike provides the gear to race/practice in, since they were willing to fork over $500,000,000.  But the letter went past that.  And the goal of the USATF should be to put the best team on the playing field. At what point does the USATF put Symmonds out there, racing in Nike's, yet left alone to wander Beijing in his Brooks shorts while chewing his Run Gum and wearing his Soleus watch?  While the letter came from USATF, I find it hard to believe that it wasn't in some way instigated by the $$$$ that Nike has given to them to be the primary sponsor of the team.  But much like my first paragraph above, I am unsurprised that this goes on and I'll simply enjoy the athletics that I do see.

BTW I love this. I really, really want to get our cat shaved like a lion