Flu shot question (Page 7)

I know! (Hangs head in shame...)

This idea makes me cringe...

is your mother already on the way out? If she got hit by a bus would you say she died due to her smoking because the COPD made her not be able to get out of the crosswalk in time?

I see patients in their 90s all day long...most of them smiling & happy and then suffred a fall. The people who have had chronic lifelong diseases don't usually live that long.

But I would never tell a family or a patient that they were already on their way out.

Deaths cased by tested cases of flu are recorded as flu deaths. We don't just make it up if we don't know. More likely many deaths are recorded as unknown, natural causes, old age, cardiac arrenst, respiratory arrest that actually ARE caused by the flu because a test was never sent to prove influenza.

It's more likely that flu deaths are underreported and the CDC will confirm that suspicion as well for reasons I already wrote about in a previous reply.

But you're right, maybe we should just let those who are on the way out go and let nature take it's course. It'd be easier and less expensive for sure.

My grandmother is 93 and lives at home alone. I get the flu vaccination for my patients and also for her. I insist my mother and my grandmother's housekeeper get the flu vaccination for my grandmother's health. She is hardly "on the way out", but lots of things will kill her more quickly than they would kill your I.

FTR, I am not giving your opinion equal weight of science. I am saying that YOU are giving your opinion and science equal weight.

No one is attacking you, berating you, or telling you to "shut up and take your medicine". Those were your own words, just like it was you who described the people who disagree with you as "good little sheeple", which is pretty condescending.

I pray she doesn't live in Ned or Boulder...doomed for sure from all those unvaccinated kids.

This.post.I.love.

I get a flu shot, every year, without fail.

I'm Type 1 diabetic, have been since 9 (actually, my diabetes will be old enough to vote on Friday, my 18th dia-versary) so immuno-supressed.

Plus, I have a 6 month old nephew, an 87 year old grandfather, come in contact with a BUNCH of kids in my workday (mostly from non-vaccinating crunchy families), so yeah, I get one every year. For myself, and for everyone else.

I don't know who has the kind of cash lying around that they can afford to be out sick from work for a week plus on end. I certainly don't- as a contractor, if the wheels aren't turning, I'm not earning.

I understand what you're saying but I guess I don't understand why.

Death is rarely all or nothing. Not to get morbid here, however it seems as though you're asking for deaths due to an infection cannot be reported and instead attributable only to underlying medical problems.

Here are just a few examples that are simple:

Lady Diana, immediate cause of death: Ruptured aorta. Secondary cause motor vehicle crash.

So was her death due to a ruptured aorta which has many causes or was her death due to a car accident which can have both survivors as well as those who are deceased. How should be reported?

It would get reported to a trauma database or anyone doing research could extract the information to look for types of injuries and whether or not the passenger lived or died.

When you fill out a death certificate, There's a line requesting immediate cause of death. This must be hand written in black pen by the pronouncing physician. Been there about six additional blank lines below.
They start with the words "secondary to…"

You fill out as many of these secondary to lines as are appropriate.

I've tried many times to get away with simply writing "cardiac arrest" is the cause of death for my patients in the emergency room. After all in the end everyone's heart stops beating. However that's not an acceptable answer there must be underlying cause. Respiratory arrest for what cause? Influenza type A. Are there other secondary causes in the patient's case? Emphysema is certainly a country bidding cause and respiratory arrests due to lung infection. So I add that as well. Was there a bacterial superinfection? If I know I must include this as well.

This goes on and on. I've never filled out a death certificate was only one cause of death.

Oldies get reported in all these good attitude database and are searchable by people doing research. Certain infections are mandatory to reap be reported to the CDC.

You ask a lot of good questions and have a lot of good concerns.

I always had these types of questions when I was growing up which is I think why went into the career of medicine.

So when people are curious about these sorts of things like the questions you raise, I insist on a deeper investigation into the known facts and available science. In the end there'll always be someone's opinion generated as result of that investigation. But if the information is there it's irrational to form an opinion without further knowledge. Or at the very least it's irrational to have a decided opinion without considering that additional knowledge may change your mind.

When patients have opinions that are different from my own, I tried to ask them to give me a logical explanation of how they arrived at that opinion. If they're missing facts or knowledge, for example how deaths are recorded and reported, I feel obligated to provide that information. Likewise if they're missing facts or information about vaccines I feel obligated to provide that factual information. I don't do it for an argument or to belittle parents. I do it out of obligation because I have that knowledge. And I recognize that most people are not interested in reading the CDC morbidity And mortality weekly report. I find it fascinating and you may as well.

Real-life disease detectives. Real-life house. Real-life Dr. Who. Real-life X-Files."The truth is out there." Don't Stop searching because you found the answer you want. I was containing your search adding more knowledge to your arsenal.

sorry for the CRAZY substitutions in the post above. its kind of funny though. now that we are in COJ, its ok to have funny spell checks!!

Suzanne, Thank you for taking the time to contribute to this thread.

I will tell you I did a lot of reading leading up to my decisions. My boys were vaccinated on the standard schedule in the early-mid 90s so making the decision not to vaccinate was not something I took lightly. It is also not a decision I made once. I continue to read, discuss and think about whether this is the right choice for our family.  Like homeschooling it is something we look at and re-evaluate all the time. I take that part of my Mama job very seriously.  I can't see it so I am paraphrasing you said 'finding the answer you want and stopping'.  Honestly, I have not found the answer I want so I am not stopping.  For me it seems if you/they - figurative of course, want to  inject my perfect baby with something there should be a really good reason and I have to believe with all my being it is the right thing for my baby. I am not convinced vaccines are. I read an article the other day about whooping cough and I do read links and information the CDC has to offer, my education continues. What I have read has not been compelling enough for me to inject vaccines into my child.

 

Edited by KeriKadi 2012-11-29 7:46 AM

People can choose to vaccinate or not, its their choice.  That being said, there are risks involved on either side of the equation.  As I have posted in a similar thread, I have chosen not to vaccinate my children for a personal reason, that being the loss of my little brother.  He was a normal, healthy child who was dead within 24 hours of having received childhood immunizations.  To some of you this is just "anecdotal evidence" and that is OK as I respect your opinion.  For me, the risks are very real, not just some statistic.  There is no comfort in knowing a loved one, a child, died for "the good of all society".