Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 71)
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() T in Liberty Lake - 2011-03-25 10:31 AM I have heard several tri coaches that I respect say, “Truly fit athletes do not cramp”. However, let’s face reality. At 6-foot and 200+ pounds I’m not “truly fit”. Nor do I really intend to give up ice cream, beer, and fatty foods long enough to reach the point of being “truly fit” just for a race. (I wonder if you can deep fry ice cream with a beer batter?) That sounds amazing! Stout floats are also good. Have I mentioned I'm not at my "ideal race weight" either? ^_^ |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Haha pickle juice was made famous in the Monday night football game of the eagles vs the Cowboys about a decade ago when Andy Reid was just getting started. Now, 10 years later, its on the shelves at GNC and being studied in the Netherlands! I want to reinforce a very basic concept that Josh is alluding to which i think was responsible for my improvement of about 3/4 of an hour from IM1 to IM2, namely PACING. My mantras at IM2 were slow and steady wins the race, patience is a virtue, and no need to rush. Didn't walk at all at IM2 where IM1 I blew up and had to walk with my head down in defeat during miles 14-20 before bouncing back and rallying. Don't be afraid to ride slower and/or run slower as forward movement, noted above, is the key. Running slower is way faster than walking average! If someone can do it for the BT IMCDA party, I want in on T's suggestions: "I wonder if you can deep fry ice cream with a beer batter?" Finally, nobody is coming back to me about BT/IMCDA shirts for us and sherpas. Does that mean you want the new neon lime headsweat hats instead or nothing? Running out of time. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() We’re up to 88 pgs anyone remember what the goal was? |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Since we are on the subject of climbing and we all know that's a critical part of the bike at CDA does anyone have the hill grade %'s at all? Map-my-ride does a terrible job at defining hill profile and the video still doesn't help me get a good feel for it (once you're driving up a hill it doesn't look like much of a hill). What I do understand are things like 6% grade, 12%, etc - then I know what hills to train and ride on around here (in AZ) to make sure I'm ready. Even if you can say, two of the hills are 6% and the worst is 10% it would help. Thanks! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dfrash_1 - 2011-03-25 4:58 PM Since we are on the subject of climbing and we all know that's a critical part of the bike at CDA does anyone have the hill grade %'s at all? Map-my-ride does a terrible job at defining hill profile and the video still doesn't help me get a good feel for it (once you're driving up a hill it doesn't look like much of a hill). What I do understand are things like 6% grade, 12%, etc - then I know what hills to train and ride on around here (in AZ) to make sure I'm ready. Even if you can say, two of the hills are 6% and the worst is 10% it would help. Thanks! http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/fullscreen/18197948/ Be sure to click the elevation button at the bottom. There are average grades so they do not show those little short spikes. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 2x what Phatknot said about "pacing"!!!!! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TriRSquared - 2011-03-25 3:18 PM dfrash_1 - 2011-03-25 4:58 PM Since we are on the subject of climbing and we all know that's a critical part of the bike at CDA does anyone have the hill grade %'s at all? Map-my-ride does a terrible job at defining hill profile and the video still doesn't help me get a good feel for it (once you're driving up a hill it doesn't look like much of a hill). What I do understand are things like 6% grade, 12%, etc - then I know what hills to train and ride on around here (in AZ) to make sure I'm ready. Even if you can say, two of the hills are 6% and the worst is 10% it would help. Thanks! http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/fullscreen/18197948/ Be sure to click the elevation button at the bottom. There are average grades so they do not show those little short spikes. Not a big fan of mapmyride hill profile. So I’ve found a route with 2000ft of climbing on a 50mile loop. I know CD does not have that much climbing so I figure training on a harder course will make the CD bike ride a little easier on me. Easier is really not the word I’m looking for but you get what I mean. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Yeah, I know about the elevation tool, but it's not really accurate - several rides I do now show 3-4% but they are really closer to 8-10%. And I know you guys aren't talking about having to get out of the saddle on a hill that's 4%, yet that's the most mapmyride shows. I do want to ride harder than what is shown for CDA - but the engineer in me wants to know what "harder" is and if I'm going to only average 12 mph because it's all 8% hills. Thanks all! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I started messing around with map my rides and I really like how this one displayed the bike profile. I never have used it before so I thought it was cool when I put my mouse over a certain part of the terrain it showed where it was on the route. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Ok I just did the math stating elevation 2163ft max height 2163ft= 458ft of climbing x 2= 916 ft. Map my ride shows a total climb of 1400+ft of climbing. What am I messing? Are they adding in all the dips or something? That would be my guess I just want to make sure. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() All this talk of hills is getting my anxiety up a little. Sorry if it's been posted before, but does anyone have a true read on the elevation gain? 1400/loop sounds a little light. Tomorrow is 90 days, y'all! What's on tap for everyone's weekend? I'm in the middle of a wicked sinus infection and have missed the last 2 days of training. :-( I'm hoping to wake up in good enough shape for a long ride tomorrow. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2011-03-25 1:08 PM Haha pickle juice was made famous in the Monday night football game of the eagles vs the Cowboys about a decade ago when Andy Reid was just getting started. Now, 10 years later, its on the shelves at GNC and being studied in the Netherlands! I want to reinforce a very basic concept that Josh is alluding to which i think was responsible for my improvement of about 3/4 of an hour from IM1 to IM2, namely PACING. My mantras at IM2 were slow and steady wins the race, patience is a virtue, and no need to rush. Didn't walk at all at IM2 where IM1 I blew up and had to walk with my head down in defeat during miles 14-20 before bouncing back and rallying. Don't be afraid to ride slower and/or run slower as forward movement, noted above, is the key. Running slower is way faster than walking average! If someone can do it for the BT IMCDA party, I want in on T's suggestions: "I wonder if you can deep fry ice cream with a beer batter?" Finally, nobody is coming back to me about BT/IMCDA shirts for us and sherpas. Does that mean you want the new neon lime headsweat hats instead or nothing? Running out of time. I haven't been following the thread so closely lately so I need to educate self on shirts for BT. Sounds like a great idea and I'd be in. Also on the pickle juice -- last year while I was running at CA 70.3 I was chatting with a guy who was drinking pickle juice and sweared by it. He was supposed to do IMCDA last year but never got his name so don't know how that turned out for him. Yes, I get chatty on the run sometimes. Makes the time go faster since sans ipod. ![]() Oh, just signed up for TriBike Transport -- $300. It's all becoming a bit more real. Any of you doing CA 70.3 next weekend? |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My response to those coaches would be that wisely paced athletes don't cramp, regardless of their relative fitness.
If you think about it, if you train at say a 10 minute pace on the run and on race day drop to 9.45 pace that is a 15 sec per mile pace increase. Then you are increasing your speed by 25%. A 25% increase in any other system would be considered incredible. No matter your fitness if on race day you are putting more output you have the chance to have potential problems you are not use to or expecting. From what i have seen the theories of cramping are 1) electrolytes, 2) excessive exertion (out of the range of fitness or usual exertion) 3) lack of flexability. If you are totally in shape, flexible, and all your chemicals are balanced and you go faster on race day a cramp is still possible. We all hope to go faster on race day. However, SMART pacing would seem the most probable to me to have the biggest effect - unless the pickle juice is the worlds best cure LOL!! Now that I have said this I will have my first cramp in CDA |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() sarahk - 2011-03-25 6:48 PM Sorry if it's been posted before, but does anyone have a true read on the elevation gain? 1400/loop sounds a little light. I've posted a plot of elevation and grade for the bike loop here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1tt9NTzW7KnNTI0Y2M1YzMtZGY1NC00MzM... The total elevation gain per loop is about 3000, but the steep sections are all short, and the longest climb is less than ten minutes based on riding the Computrainer real course video. I like the bike course a lot, actually, because half is non-stop kinda flat, and the other half is non-stop hills and rollers, so it will never get dull. The four trips through town is a nice bonus too. I'm not doing the Oceanside 70.3, but it's three weeks until New Orleans for me and I'm anxious to find out where I'm at compared to the HIM I did to end last season in September. Three long rides and long runs to go. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() coxma22 - 2011-03-25 7:49 PM sarahk - 2011-03-25 6:48 PM I've posted a plot of elevation and grade for the bike loop here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1tt9NTzW7KnNTI0Y2M1YzMtZGY1NC00MzM... The total elevation gain per loop is about 3000, but the steep sections are all short, and the longest climb is less than ten minutes based on riding ...Sorry if it's been posted before, but does anyone have a true read on the elevation gain? 1400/loop sounds a little light.
Matt I'll have to look at your link at the house. Cyber restrictions on duty won’t let me look at it, but I'm scanning different profiles and can only come up with 1434 max total for one loop. 3000 seem to very extreme for CD based of what I’ve seen so far but maybe I'm looking at the wrong stuff. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2011-03-24 1:00 AM Here is an explanation of the difference between Powerbar Endurance Powder (readily available at GNC and other places) and Powerbar/Ironman Perform "ready to drink" bottles (served on course) from what I consider to be the most trusted source on sports nutrition out there. According to Brian, the products are interchangeable. I know that gatorade powder and store bought bottles did not have the same sugar composition (at least for a while the bottles used HFCS), but it appears Powerbar has been consistent. Just as an aside, Brian has also been the "nutritional coach" to several pro athletes -- they jointly write nutrition/race reports after good performances. Here are a few: So you'll see for both guys that live in the 9ish hour range, they are taking in about 400 caloreis per hour on bike and run. My personal experience (about 1.5 hours slower) is that that's just about right for the bike, and a little too much for the run.
Thanks for the links. I was surprised to see that Rapp was mixing different brands ie Powerbar Perform with GU Roctane as opposed to using PB gels. I was told it is best to stick with one brand of of drinks/gels so it is less likely to get stomach issues. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tribean - 2011-03-25 8:46 PM coxma22 - 2011-03-25 7:49 PM sarahk - 2011-03-25 6:48 PM I've posted a plot of elevation and grade for the bike loop here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1tt9NTzW7KnNTI0Y2M1YzMtZGY1NC00MzM... The total elevation gain per loop is about 3000, but the steep sections are all short, and the longest climb is less than ten minutes based on riding ...Sorry if it's been posted before, but does anyone have a true read on the elevation gain? 1400/loop sounds a little light.
Matt I'll have to look at your link at the house. Cyber restrictions on duty won’t let me look at it, but I'm scanning different profiles and can only come up with 1434 max total for one loop. 3000 seem to very extreme for CD based of what I’ve seen so far but maybe I'm looking at the wrong stuff. Hmmm... I agree that the data out there is all over the place, but I find that most are between 2200 and 3200 feet per loop. The post I've found seems to have the most effort behind it is here: http://rcmioga.blogspot.com/2008/07/im-course-elevation-data.html From riding the real course video, I'd describe the course as 25% climbing, 25% descending, and 50% flat/false flat. The steep climbs are short, the long climbs aren't that long or that steep. I think the two steepest sections come within a few miles of each other near the start of the hills, which is about halfway into the loop. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() coxma22 - 2011-03-25 10:42 PM tribean - 2011-03-25 8:46 PM coxma22 - 2011-03-25 7:49 PM Hmmm... I agree that the data out there is all over the place, but I find that most are between 2200 and 3200 feet per loop. The post I've found seems to have the most effort behind it is here: http://rcmioga.blogspot.com/2008/07/im-course-elevation-data.htmlFrom riding the real course video, I'd describe the course as 25% climbing, 25% descending, and 50% flat/false flat. The steep climbs are short, the long climbs aren't that long or that steep. I think the two steepest sections come within a few miles of each other near the start of the hills, which is about halfway into the loop.sarahk - 2011-03-25 6:48 PM I've posted a plot of elevation and grade for the bike loop here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1tt9NTzW7KnNTI0Y2M1YzMtZGY1NC00MzM... The total elevation gain per loop is about 3000, but the steep sections are all short, and the longest climb is less than ten minutes based on riding ...Matt I'll have to look at your link at the house. Cyber restrictions on duty won’t let me look at it, but I'm scanning different profiles and can only come up with 1434 max total for one loop. 3000 seem to very extreme for CD based of what I’ve seen so far but maybe I'm looking at the wrong stuff. Here’s my conclusion the IRONMAN organization is just collecting our money. I can’t believe they have not done the work for us. I’m not kidding when I say I have seen over 40 different profiles for the bike course. This is not a new subject for IMCDA or other races so why don’t they take the time to put the official elevation gain on their site? As of now I now the elevation gain is somewhere between 3000 ft gain total and 6000 ft total gain. This is one of those things that chap my a&^. I’m going to contact the race poc on the web site and see if they will post it. Feel free to do the same but I have a gut feeling these idiots get this every year and never fix it. I’m sure their response will be here’s a link to map my rides just like they did for Oceanside CA. Sorry for the rant. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Attached is a Garmin Training Center file for last year's race. (Not mine, found it on the Garmin site). So this is the actual course, not an estimate from MapMyRide. It shows just shy of 5600ft for the 2 loop course. So that's 2800ft for 1 loop. Remember this is TOTAL elvation gain. So if you start, go up 100 ft, down 100, up 100 and down 100 (net 0) that's 200 feet of elevation gain / loss. Also if you look at the grade there are some spikes up to the 10-14% level but those are just that, spikes. The vast majority seems to be centered around the sub 5% level. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1376772/IMCdA.tcx Edited by TriRSquared 2011-03-26 9:10 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() And tribean I agree 100%. Until I complained to them a few weeks ago they still had Gatorade on the site as the drink on the course. It amazes me that such a large organization can have such poor information on their website. Maybe if anyone wants to send me Garmin logs of IMs I can put them all up on a site so that people can have REAL infromation before they get to the race. 1. Post Garmin Logs of IMs 2. ??? 3. Profit |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() RunRene - 2011-03-25 11:42 PM I was told it is best to stick with one brand of of drinks/gels so it is less likely to get stomach issues.
Pssst - they're all basically the same If you have a basic understanding of the various sugars used, mixing isn't risky at all imho. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I think the short steep hills add a tricky mental element to CdA. The top is always in sight. So it's very tempting sometimes, to just stand up and "get it over with". And a lot of people do exactly that. It takes a lot of discipline to get in your granny gear every time and let people pass you on the way up - or at least it does for me. You have to keep reminding yourself that you still have another loop. Or that you still have a marathon to run. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Woooot!!!! Olympic race is complete. I shaved 16 freaking minutes of my Olympic PR and reported my first top 10 overall finish (8th overall). Nothing like seeing the word MASTERS above several COLLEGIATE class athletes. I chased down one guy from Baylor at the end and could not help but notice on his calf that he was 20 years old. Ahhh, I remember those days. Austin was hot, humid, hilly, and windy, but hey, the tougher the course and elements the better I will be prepared in June. I am now digging the Hammer Endurolytes. Used them for the first time today due to the temps. I need to get to bed now because I am running the Rock n Roll Half Marathon tomorrow morning. Who needs rest? New Orleans HIM in 3 weeks. Enough with the my bragahol, party on!!!! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 3Aims - 2011-03-26 6:55 PM Woooot!!!! Olympic race is complete. I shaved 16 freaking minutes of my Olympic PR and reported my first top 10 overall finish (8th overall). Nothing like seeing the word MASTERS above several COLLEGIATE class athletes. I chased down one guy from Baylor at the end and could not help but notice on his calf that he was 20 years old. Ahhh, I remember those days. Austin was hot, humid, hilly, and windy, but hey, the tougher the course and elements the better I will be prepared in June. I am now digging the Hammer Endurolytes. Used them for the first time today due to the temps. I need to get to bed now because I am running the Rock n Roll Half Marathon tomorrow morning. Who needs rest? New Orleans HIM in 3 weeks. Enough with the my bragahol, party on!!!! Dude that rocks! Major kudos and keep up the fire!! I've got Oceanside 70.3 next week and will be interested to see how it pans out. Being 3 MONTHS (yes folks, today is the 3 month mark!) out I have a "real" pre-race week taper (this week kind of was) and so will be interested to see how I feel rested out there next week! Should be fun. I hope. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() spudone - 2011-03-26 6:40 PM I think the short steep hills add a tricky mental element to CdA. The top is always in sight. So it's very tempting sometimes, to just stand up and "get it over with". And a lot of people do exactly that. It takes a lot of discipline to get in your granny gear every time and let people pass you on the way up - or at least it does for me. You have to keep reminding yourself that you still have another loop. Or that you still have a marathon to run. English Point is really the only major hill you can't see the top of. It's three progressive climbs and there are many people walking it on the 2nd loop. Since I'm all about the fun I just spin into granny on every climb and then bomb down the other side in my biggest gear ![]() |
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