swbkrun with us!!! - Closed (Page 77)

fattyfatfat - 2011-01-23 7:10 PM
asking, based on your advice.  edit.  i want to know what you think.   but i'm going to question.

kkcbelle - 2011-01-23 8:57 PM

Having done that and failed big-time... I will say it is in no way an "easier" way to run a race. I held my pace for 15 miles and then it dropped off and it hurt more than anything I have ever done. In hindsight there is question about my taper not being long enough, but who knows. MacMillan certainly said I could do what I set out to do, and I trained religiously at the paces (LSDs, tempo runs, etc). But whatever I did in my training didn't work for me at this point. Oh well, on to the next race!!

 

badgerintx - 2011-01-23 8:59 PM

First of all remember that Sam has a coach, so I am sure he has much more information on her full training regime and what Pace advice he wants to follow if she decides that Pace is the way she wants to train based the goals of that workout.  I will leave that to the paid professionals.   

But Ok...I know I will regret this...but I will bite on your question on what "I" think.  The testing procedure that I use and has been used successfully by others......copied and pasted without permission from RnP from "Endurance Nation Guide to Triahlon Training with Pace," 2009.    

Test Protocol

Warmup well; include 3 x 1' pickups to loosen up. Then run a 5k as if racing. Experience has shown that holding back slightly on the first mile, if only by a few seconds, will enable you to finish strong. Ideally, do this on a measured course you can repeat for future tests.  Remember that you will want to test several times over your training cycle to ensure that you are running to pace levels that reflect your true fitness.  Even though you might not be doing the work to get faster as you lead up to race day, changes in your body composition or other areas of your fitness could impact your vDOT. When you do retest, do your best to keep it "simple." In other words, just go out and run that course as hard as you can. Don'tcheck your watch every 30" for indications of speed, etc., just start it, run hard, and stop at the end.

Then use the Daniels Running formula using your 5k time to calculate your Vdot score. 
http://www.attackpoint.org/trainingpaces.jsp

These Paces are then used based on the objective you are attempting to receive based on your training goals for that run, etc.  My run pace is set by my training plan for each run.

****  Obviously, this is a overly simplified discussion and some other issues need to be taken into account.  But I don't want to kill 15 pages with really deep information and backup that only a few of us really care about. 

dcon - 2011-01-23 6:22 PM

Give this a read.  It may help you sort out what is wrong.  Massaging the bottom of your foot (or rolling the muscles with a ball - tennis ball, rubber baseball, etc.) may do the trick.  It has worked for me in the past.   There are quite a few muscles anchoring on the bottom of the foot.   


http://www.athletestreatingathletes.com/self-muscle-massage-series/self-muscle-massage-pt-9-the-foot/ 

FYI: Leigh's also got great explanations for all of the muscles groups.   

badgerintx - 2011-01-23 7:59 PM

First of all remember that Sam has a coach, so I am sure he has much more information on her full training regime and what Pace advice he wants to follow if she decides that Pace is the way she wants to train based the goals of that workout.  I will leave that to the paid professionals.   

But Ok...I know I will regret this...but I will bite on your question on what "I" think.  The testing procedure that I use and has been used successfully by others......copied and pasted without permission from RnP from "Endurance Nation Guide to Triahlon Training with Pace," 2009.    

Test Protocol

Warmup well; include 3 x 1' pickups to loosen up. Then run a 5k as if racing. Experience has shown that holding back slightly on the first mile, if only by a few seconds, will enable you to finish strong. Ideally, do this on a measured course you can repeat for future tests.  Remember that you will want to test several times over your training cycle to ensure that you are running to pace levels that reflect your true fitness.  Even though you might not be doing the work to get faster as you lead up to race day, changes in your body composition or other areas of your fitness could impact your vDOT. When you do retest, do your best to keep it "simple." In other words, just go out and run that course as hard as you can. Don'tcheck your watch every 30" for indications of speed, etc., just start it, run hard, and stop at the end.

Then use the Daniels Running formula using your 5k time to calculate your Vdot score. 
http://www.attackpoint.org/trainingpaces.jsp

These Paces are then used based on the objective you are attempting to receive based on your training goals for that run, etc.  My run pace is set by my training plan for each run.

****  Obviously, this is a overly simplified discussion and some other issues need to be taken into account.  But I don't want to kill 15 pages with really deep information and backup that only a few of us really care about. 

dalessit - 2011-01-23 7:48 PM

ROFL, that's awesome.

sdalessio - 2011-01-23 8:14 PM

I would love to try that out some day but right now I feel like my biggest problem is I have not practiced running the pace I need to run the race I want.   And from all of the articles I've read that seems to be a big thing for people who want to hit a certain time.

Anyway, my coach does have me scheduled for a training test in 2 weeks to measure my progress.  It is a 26km run at marathon pace.  We are going to duplicate as much of the actual race day as possible.  Based on that training run, I will evaluate my goals for Shamrock.  I certainly hope to be close to a 8:37 and maybe even a little faster.

sdalessio - 2011-01-23 8:14 PM

I would love to try that out some day but right now I feel like my biggest problem is I have not practiced running the pace I need to run the race I want.   And from all of the articles I've read that seems to be a big thing for people who want to hit a certain time.

Anyway, my coach does have me scheduled for a training test in 2 weeks to measure my progress.  It is a 26km run at marathon pace.  We are going to duplicate as much of the actual race day as possible.  Based on that training run, I will evaluate my goals for Shamrock.  I certainly hope to be close to a 8:37 and maybe even a little faster.

Techdiver - 2011-01-23 8:58 PM

You could use a HR monitor with GPS     sorry had to....

tpnguyen10 - 2011-01-23 6:56 AM

That's great! Can't wait to hear all about it.  That's on my list of races to do. 

fattyfatfat - 2011-01-23 8:41 PM

ha!  awesome

and it happens to be most (only) useful info posted here this evening.  

sdalessio - 2011-01-23 10:09 PM

I know this is a response in your usual boyish charm but I don't get it.  Do you really think that the information posted tonight is worthless?  Yes, the only real fact is running that pace on the day of the race or not.  Plain and simple.  But since I am not a gifted runner who can easily achieve this goal, I have to try and formulate then practice my plan.  And I'm using the best tools that I have access to and that includes this group, my coach, my experience and the internet. 

BTW - what do you do?

fattyfatfat - 2011-01-23 9:29 PM

perhaps you should learn to decipher boyish charm from calling out bs... anyone can regurgitate sh+t posted online, which seems to be the case here for a few that are handing out advice on things they probably shouldn't. 

what do i do?   kick a$$.  of course. 

velcromom - 2011-01-23 10:16 PM Hello, all!

Checking in from 75 degrees and sunny California!!!!   Almost makes the property taxes worth it!  Spent most of the sunlight driving to and spectating at water polo.  Sweet, but not too productive.

Had my MRI of my ankle on Friday, will get the results on Tuesday.  Doc told me that the injury wasn't acute, so he didn't have an issue with me working it this weekend.  He may put me in a boot on Tues, so get my miles in.

Hubby doesn't agree with respect to the running, would like me to park it.

So, he's on a plane to Seattle (say hi, Kyla!) so I ran.  It's sore.  Stuck in the (unheated) pool upon my return for the ice bath effect, we'll see how tomorrow goes.

Other than the ankle pain, running feels better than ever.  Really hating this.

Can't make the calculator site work.  With the exception of the ankle, or even allowing for it, I'm running faster than ever.  Strongly considering the coach idea.  I'm feeling like there's more in me.....just not sure how to pull it out.  John, that's not an euphamism for ANYTHING - just sayin'.

DougRob - 2011-01-24 6:41 AM FYI: I hate cow pose!

sdalessio - 2011-01-23 5:39 PM

I am a big fan of the McMillian Running Calculator even my coach uses it as a reference.  So you plug in a recent race and it spits out just about every pace for any type of race and/or training run.  It gives long, easy run paces all the way down to 200m interval paces.  I have found it to be pretty accurate.

Now that said I did things a little backwards and pulled in the pace I want to do at Shamrock which is backwards and not what you are supposed to do.  In my defense though, I ran a race in Nov. pretty close to those paces so I am not way off base.  But I wanted numbers that I should be practicing in order to run a 3:45 marathon.

SSMinnow - 2011-01-24 6:22 AM

Is this a yoga thing?  I feel like if it has something to do with a cow, I should know about it!

kt65 - 2011-01-24 9:44 AM

Suzy, that made me laugh!  I was wondering the same thing myself?  MOOOO! 

DougRob - 2011-01-24 9:52 AM

It is a yoga pose. I just don't seem to bend this way!

kt65 - 2011-01-24 8:42 AM

I know you have a coach who is probably watching out for you, but all of those warnings about not doing that are there to protect us from hurting ourselves!  You don't want to overstress your body by training at a pace too hard and then try to recover at a pace that's not easy enough.  I guess though, if your fitness has changed to the point where those paces are right for you, then all is good.  And I am thinking you would know that by the tests you have done for your coach.

Right now, I am being asked by my coach to pay less attention to heart rate and focus on pace for awhile.  Which kind of freaks me out!  The paces, though, are based on a test I did last week and new vDot stuff.  I will refrain from answering your HR vs. pace question, because I honestly don't think there is an easy answer to that.  My heart rate monitor has been acting crazy for the past month or so, and I am not even paying attention to it anymore whereas I used to be super reliant on it.  I am getting very good at RPE and just tell myself z2 is marathon, z3 half mary, z4 is 10k and it works pretty well.

p.s. john, you are forbidden from responding to this post!