AMA classifies obesity as a disease (Page 8)

Right, and even more to the point is that I don't believe obesity can be attributed to something as simple as making better choices at restaurants or the supermarket.

When friends say they want to lose a few pounds, maybe 15, maybe 20 and want to know how to do it, I tell them to make better choices when they dine out.  Sure, you can bang out a little weight loss with small changes.  You can still be a completely healthy, active person and be 15-20 pounds overweight because you like to indulge a little; or because you love fitness and like to indulge a little more.

Obesity is a whole different issue.  We're not talking about being a little overweight here, have a little extra junk in the trunk, being a curvy person, being stocky, having a beer belly, having some jiggle.  Obesity means grossly overweight with a sick body that starts to forget how to function properly.  That's why the AMA had a case for calling it a disease in first place whether we agree with the outcome of that or not.

You have to work pretty hard at eating and avoiding exercise to get to that point.  Your life will need a major overhaul in order to get down to a healthy weight.  That's not to say the overhaul can't be done over time, but we need to look deeper than just knowing how many calories are in our meals.  We have to figure out what motivates some people to massively overindulge on a regular basis and avoid being active like it is the most unpleasant thing on earth.  

I still think it goes back to the brain and its patterns, fixing the emotional side of things, discovering why we are motivated to do certain things and why we lack motivation to do others.  I hope that what comes out of this AMA change is more attention to that side of things.

Research before you go, research your favorite items so when you are in the drive thru or an impromptu dinner you know.
Educate yourself, write it down, print it out, add it up, put it in your wallet, whatever it takes. Everything else is simply an excuse. The information is out there, and has been for years. 

Ok, since my last post can come of as whiny, I'm going to jump in here and get real, fat guy to fat guy. Can I say that? I am still over 250, and I know what 365 feels like. So this is not some lifetime-skinny person saying this, this is a brother in adiposity.

Is there ANYTHING you can get a a drive thru window that you should eat? Is it a secret that the kind of food served in fast food places is a bad idea, no matter the quantity? Calorie counts are smoke and freaking mirrors. And we know it. I've had enough tiny junior frostys from wendys to know all about calorie counting and how precisely it can be done, and how worthless it is when you're counting this crap.

The only thing that has gotten me off the obesity train has nothing to do with counting calories. It has to do with eliminating sweet things. Period. Sugar, grain, artificial sweeteners. To treat all calories as equivalent in effect is insanity. We have been applying a simplified. Understanding of thermodynamics to explain and advise a system that is chemical and biological, in other words: hormonal. And now I am risking sounding over simplified, but yes I'll say it again: America on a diet of primarily animal fat with trace amounts of sugar was an America that knew almost nothing of obesity, heart disease and TTD. We "discovered" calories, noticed that a gram of fat has more than a gam of anything else, decided fat was therefore the enemy, and look how well that has worked out over the last 30-40 years.

McDonalds listing calorie counts will be as effective in creating healthy decisions as putting std results in a whorehouse. You're in the door, the decision was already made.

I'm not sure I understand.  If you KNOW your best guess is way under, why not adjust up?  If I'm golfing and KNOW I hit my ball to the right, then I will aim a little more to the left to compensate

If you constantly estimate 50% low, why not double your estimate?  If you are over?  Isn't that better to estimate on the high side and eat more later than be under and blow by your target?

Claaaw mentioned it as well, and I had a LONG post I decided to retract.  But I would think that even going to a driveup/fast food is problem #1.  Unless you get a salad without all the garbage on top, you are going to blow by your target. 

Like you mentioned, I have my items I know I can get after a bit of research.  I know a crunchy taco has 170 calores at Taco Bell, for example.  I know the few items I can get at each place that won't kill my count for the day.

I think you learn to "build" a meal by ingredients as well.  An egg?  80 cal.  Slice of cheese is 70, slice of ham is 70, slice of bread is 80.  So an egg mcmuffin is 70+70+80+80+80.  380...  Actual count per the website?  300.  There, I over estimated a bit, but then I can eat more later when/if I do the actual count.  If I don't?  Then I'm even MORE under my target.

True.

I also wanted to add that I used to be chubby ~10 years ago. Probably weighed 25-30 more lbs than I do now (4 pant sizes bigger, I didn't weigh myself so really don't know the exact number). No, not obese and I won't pretend to know what that struggle is like. But I do know that obsessive attention to calorie detail and working out helped me. Excuses did not.

Lisa, I don't doubt the success of folks like yourself who cut calories. But that attention tends to have effects you don't notice that probably have the most bang-for-buck results in what you cut out.

So, while we're on the topic of fast food menus and calories, I recommend everyone go to Netflix streaming and watch Fathead. It has flaws, but it's a good intro for people into some concepts we never talk about in this whole calorie paradigm, or get labeled fringe. It's the anti-supersize me. The filmmaker eats mcd's for a month, but is selective about the menu. And I dont mean lowfat salad dressing on tepid crappy iceberg lettuce. He does mcdonalds high fat, lowcarb, and loses weight, while, get this: he also improves cholesterol.

There is a lot more scholarly material I capoint people to, but this is an easy watch, even if his political agenda does creep in a bit loudly from time to time. A bit too Stossel-like in tone for me at times, but it's eye opening for most people.

And for those who are very skeptical of lowcarb and still want to hang knto the simplistic calorie-in-calorie-out dogma, consider for a moment that the obese are metabolically broken beyond what you may know in your body, and it may be at least worth exploring for folks like us.

So much wisdom in one little sentence. Don't start none, won't be none.

As one who goes to McD's often, I get the grilled chicken snack wrap with no ranch sauce. I think it's like 180 calories.

I'm not sure where the "no excuses" as a counter argument to AMA  classifying obesity as a disease. Hopefully they will be able to help people lose weight successfully. 

Our society has shouted loudly the whole "shame" thingy. And it's not working very well... 

There's a poster here, Zero2Athlete (Lloyd) and he's a friend of mine.  He should be the "Jarrod" of McD's because he went from fat to fit and became an Ironman on a McD's diet.  The premise of this is that it's truly more about portion control than anything else when it comes to being obese.

Now don't get me wrong, I totally agree that eating a moderate amount of calories from fast food is not as healthy as eating clean foods void of chemicals, etc.

But if anyone's interested, click on Lloyd's profile or tagline.  He has a whole blog and now a video that's been shown locally about overcoming his obesity and doing IM, all while eating a ton of fast food because of its sheer convenience.

I truly believe that portion control is the real enemy and that it's mostly to blame for our epidemic.  Eating crappy foods is not great, but if you stick to the recommended daily calories or below and toss in some very moderate exercise you will not be obese even if those calories are from McD's.  You may not be thin, lean or void of flab, but no one is obese from eating 1500-2000 calories a day plus a very nominal about of exercise.  I would even go so far as to say no one is obese from eating 1500-2000 calories a day with no exercise.

And now for something totally off topic... what is the deal with portions at restaurants??? I can eat a TON, seriously. But even I do not understand why they serve two meals in one. Even for cost control... all food makers lower amounts in the package so they do not have to raise prices. Restaurants keep raising prices, and serving enough for two meals. I know when I order out that I darn near have to split it... and restaurant food is not that good left over, and I have no problems with left overs. 

Appetizers are a meal all in themselves. The wife and I have just been splitting one for a meal when there is a good one.

Same at fast foods... no, I do not want 64 ounces of coke and a wheelbarrow of fries. How about we just end all that, and if you really want two or three servings of fries, then just order them?

Sooooooooo..... maybe the AMA is trying to help people get to that point...no?

I sure hope so Kate.  I think those that disagree with the AMA ruling worry that they will not address the mental aspect of why people over consume but will rather treat it with more drugs and surgeries.

Let's hope that's incorrect.

So true.  Back in the day portions were so much smaller than they are now at restaurants and even with packaged stuff.  I feel that McD's knows exactly what it's doing.  It wants to train the eater to desire bigger portions so he/she will come back for more, and more, and more.  Let's face it, over eaters are probably their biggest source of revenue.

TOTALLY off on a tangent, I haven't had a french fry in decades.....but they still smell so freaking good.

Add that to The Claww's post and you have something. My wife recently got into bikini shows (a subset of bodybuilding shows). My brother in law is a personal trainer and trained her for the show and also worked with me a bit. He never gave us a calorie count. What we had was a grams of proteins and a grams of carbs that we were supposed to have each day. We split that number by 5 and ate 5 meals with the given amount of protein and carbs. The cleaner the carbs (fruit and veggies) the better. Calories never even entered the equation, but I noticed that if you keep the carbs clean the calories really aren't a problem. There aren't a ton of calories in an apple or a can of green beans. 

Something I have noticed since then is that the type of carb really makes a difference in how I maintain my weight and in how I feel. After almost a year of eating similarly to my wife and I can just barely handle the bun on a burger now without feeling like a sloth afterward. Fries? Forget about it. Before this diet I could murder a burger, fries and 3 beers easy. Now my stomach would be in a lot of turmoil after a meal like that. We cheated the other day and got a pizza, felt like crap for 2 days afterward.

Our idea of food in our society has gotten too far away from simple carbs IMO. I can eat all the beef, chicken, eggs and simple carbs I want and feel great and not gain weight. But a weekend of pizza and beer and I can easily put on a few pounds.

So for me it is not about calories per say. It is about the type of carbs one is eating. Cut back on the dairy and grains and add some good old fruits and veggies and forget the calorie count for a bit. For me anyway, I feel much better and maintain my weight much better this way. It also helps with knowing what to eat. I can go to a restaurant and order something that doesn't come with cheese, bread and fries and know I am doing pretty well.

Oh one more thing. My metabolism really gets a boost from the simple carbs. I have an office job so I sit around way too much. If I stick to the good carbs I get downright hungry ever 3-4 hours. If I eat starchy carbs I can do much longer before I get hungry, they really slow my metabolism down and it shows on the scale as well.  

I watched an interview with one of the doctors directly involved. He discussed the ruling having the most potential for obese kids/teens, and the morbidly obese. 

As far as the mental aspect, currently our country has very few resources for anyone needing mental health support unless one is about to harm themselves or others. Visiting a shrink can cost over a hundred bucks a visit. 

I've seen miracles in people who have had surgeries.. 

Just more information to help out.

Study: Restaurants don’t contribute majority of calories

http://www.restaurant.org/News-Research/News/Study-Restaurants-dont-contribute-majority-of-cal

From the study, "Between 63 percent and 70 percent of caloric intake in the U.S. diet came from purchases made at supermarkets, grocery- and c-stores."

If it were so simple. But it is not. Calorie in calorie out paradigm leads us to these simple calculations. Gary Taubes debunks this metholdology pretty handily in Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It. The whole idea of this many calories here and there adds up to these gains or losses is a huge fallacy, that is demonstrably not true. If it were, all these people whose weight stays stable whether thin or fat, woud be jumping all over the place constantly unless they absolutely counted calories all the time. That's just not how complex systems like a multi-organ human body work. It's not simple accounting. I really recommend you check out that book by Taubes. It will open a whole new way of thinking.

That is ALL American's though. I would like to know how much restaurants account for caloric intake of the obese. And it might not be significantly higher, just because price begins to become a factor. Your dollar goes further at a supermarket and that is just a fact.

Again, for me, it just comes down to will power.   I simply eat half and ask for a to-go box pretty early.  I close it so I don't see it and pick at it/finish it.

Then eat the second half later.  But I do have to stop when I'm still hungry, which sucks.  But after 20 minutes?  I'm not as my body figures out I ate.  I have to realize that the full feeling will come, just be patient.

What sucks (and I'm in the process of trying to lose 20 lbs AGAIN) now that my meds have been redjusted...  Is that trying to lose is constant discipline, depriving, and restrictions and denying myself things.  In NO WAY is it enjoyable.  But that's where the mind over matter comes in. 

However, I also relearned again that success is also adicting.  I see the couple pounds less on the scale at the end of the week and it fires me up to even take MORE control.  Do I need that beer or glass of bourbon?  That trip to yogurtland?  I see the success as losing weight is almost as addicting as eating, once it actually happens.

Are you actually saying people who eat less calories in a day than they burn will not lose weight? 

You've been very cordial in your posts and have made several however I just do not agree with  you.  Sure there's an exception to every rule and maybe you've experienced some phenomenon where ingesting 1,500 calories a day while burning 2,000 doesn't equate to weight loss...However I'd counter there are 10,000,000 others with that scenario who do...

This has been a very fascinating thread and in some cases sheerly because of the attempts those on each side have tried to explain their thinking...

All I do is look at our country over the past 20, 40, 60, 100 years and see how obesity has become rampant.  Then I look at the rest of the world and see obesity as a non-issue...Or where it's starting to creep in the diet has become "westernized."  By that I mean simple carbs, lots of them and portion sizes that should make people embarrased.

I'm in the category of person who could lose another 10-15 pounds to be my ideal weight but I've never been obese and never will be... And 100% of the people I know that are obese are that way because of too many calories in vs. calories out or burned.

My fear is the label of disease will merely justify many people continuing to do the wrong thing only now they can claim they weren't as fortunate as others because they were born with an insidious "disease."  One more thing for people to say to me instead of, "I wish I had your metabolism."....Like my metabolism is the reason I manage my weight...

I like that!  Although I think it needs another d 

I guy who attend my fitness classes used to say, "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels".  Not that I'm promoting being "skinny", but the idea is to get addicted to that feeling of loving your body and what it's capable of and letting those feeling be the ones your brain craves.  I KNOW this is easy for some and the hardest thing ever for others.