SWBKRUN -CLOSED DUE TO TRAINING (Page 86)

Be careful where and when you shave...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/maryland-swim-team-retroactively-loses-county-title-because-153508295.html

Although the intent of the rule seems to make sense, the punishment seems a little crazy.

Quick question for the group.  At what point does swimming faster mean pulling harder rather than working on form?  Being that most triathlon swims are wetsuit legal, the wetsuit corrects the position problems that slow us down.  So when do we just increase strokes per minute?

I include drills into most of my workouts and spend a lot of time on position and form.  When I swim with friends (new to triathlon but with running or cycling backgrounds) without a wetsuit, there is a noticeable difference in our speed.  When we do an open water swim WITH the suit, that difference is barely noticeable.  All of their leg dragging and body position issues go away.  They benefit way more from the suit than I do. 

I just wonder how much time should really be spent on form, and if more should be spent maybe in a weight room or just swimming harder?

Thoughts?

(Disclaimer: I injured my shoulder when I first started because of bad form.  It was fixed when I got a swim coach)

I love bacon.

I had another swim lesson yesterday and there are some things that I am definitely doing better like not crossing the mid-line, not flicking my hand at the end of the pull (don't ask!), keeping high elbows...but what was enlightening was how much I think I do not kick vs. how much I really still kick. 

My teacher is great...she uses pretty cool examples to get her point across.  So she asks me to swim a fast 50 as fast as I can remembering all of the things we've talked about.  Like high elbows, check.  No crossing mid-line.  Rotate body well on both sides, really extend the torso prior to the pull...don't kick hard.  46 seconds!!!

Well apparently, one can go fast when kicking like a crazy banshee.  I really thought I only kicked to keep my body afloat.  Wrong!  No wonder, I can barely break 2:00 on a 100.  So, she gave me her bracelet to put between my ankles and told me to hold the bracelet and try to swim off the wall.  Well, I got about 5 yards and promptly lost the bracelet.  Again. Again. Again...until, I started to really rotate my body and pull all the way through...pushing my chest forward and down in order to extend my torso and create a boat like propulsion.  COOL! 

This will be a drill for me prior to my swimming main sets, but instead of a bracelet, I am using an old pair of goggles to keep my feet together...it gives a little bit of play without the false buoyancy of a pull buoy (which she doesn't want me to use so I can get those legs to just sit more still on their own)...she's not a big fan of bands.  I can also use a filled water bottle if I am feeling courageous.   I really felt different today (after all of these crazy legs tied up drills) at my workout.

Oh and breathing out steadily instead of in spurts is something that gives me a lot more time to breathe and not hold my neck so tense...I'm trying to do that as I sit at my desk right now!

Swimming food for thought!

Even though it's early, it's still Wednesday!  Who's taking the time to do a little racing this weekend?  Spill it.

Quick question for the group.  At what point does swimming faster mean pulling harder rather than working on form?  Being that most triathlon swims are wetsuit legal, the wetsuit corrects the position problems that slow us down.  So when do we just increase strokes per minute?

I include drills into most of my workouts and spend a lot of time on position and form.  When I swim with friends (new to triathlon but with running or cycling backgrounds) without a wetsuit, there is a noticeable difference in our speed.  When we do an open water swim WITH the suit, that difference is barely noticeable.  All of their leg dragging and body position issues go away.  They benefit way more from the suit than I do. 

I just wonder how much time should really be spent on form, and if more should be spent maybe in a weight room or just swimming harder?

Thoughts?

(Disclaimer: I injured my shoulder when I first started because of bad form.  It was fixed when I got a swim coach)

I agree with Doug and Kyla.  Form is critical.

But really, at some point after that perfect extension, perfect catch, perfect rotation, head down, in mid-line, and parallel to the bottom of the pool don't you have to just swim faster?

No racing here.

Had a fun conversation on facebook this morning.  A (semi) local, very popular race opened up registration this morning and I tagged a bunch of people and asked who was going to register.  Plenty of rubber arm twisting going on.  Lots of sign ups.

I'd mention it is Melissa's for the other local person in the group, but it is in September, and I hear that person just sits on their for 4-5 months after completing big races...

Personally, I say a lot. A suit will not stop you from crosssing your center line under the water. A suit will not give you good high elbows aiding in recovery, a suit will not improve your pull. A suit will not stop you from lifting your head too much. The more unnecessary drag you create the harder you have to work. A suit will help reducing leg drag but other than that form is still critical. Think of form as your base (like running) and intervals are your speed work.

Good one, DEB!!!!  I wonder if that person will ignore this post as he sometimes goes missing for weeks on end but lurks. 

Quick question for the group.  At what point does swimming faster mean pulling harder rather than working on form?  Being that most triathlon swims are wetsuit legal, the wetsuit corrects the position problems that slow us down.  So when do we just increase strokes per minute?

I include drills into most of my workouts and spend a lot of time on position and form.  When I swim with friends (new to triathlon but with running or cycling backgrounds) without a wetsuit, there is a noticeable difference in our speed.  When we do an open water swim WITH the suit, that difference is barely noticeable.  All of their leg dragging and body position issues go away.  They benefit way more from the suit than I do. 

I just wonder how much time should really be spent on form, and if more should be spent maybe in a weight room or just swimming harder?

Thoughts?

(Disclaimer: I injured my shoulder when I first started because of bad form.  It was fixed when I got a swim coach)

In a nutshell, I haven't felt like I am working as hard or consistently on the run-focused tri plan I have been trying to follow since the first of the year as I did at the end of last year when I was only running. A large part of the problem is trying to get in bike rides before/after work during daylight hours. 

My primary goals for this year are 1) a sub-30 5k; 2) complete a HM; and 3) complete an Oly.

I am considering going back to a run focused plan for the next 6 weeks and maybe looking at more 5K's through the Spring.  I talked with a local HS cross-country coach about adding some speed work and hill repeats over a 4-6 week period; but it would require me to run 5-6 times a week.  I feel like I could still get in one good swim and possibly one long bike ride in each week to quasi-maintain fitness there.

If I go in that direction, my thought would be to move back to a more tri-focused plan around the end of March/early April (after DST kicks in).  FWIW, the first sprint I am looking at is the last weekend of April; the Oly in September and the HM in November. 

Thoughts/suggestions?

I think it depends on your goals for the April sprint vs. your running goals. If the running goals are more motivating to you, go for the run focus. You have plenty of time to build your bike and swim volume before that September Oly.

A note on the running: I wouldn't add speed work at this point. You can make a lot of progress with less risk of injury just by gradually increasing volume with lots of easy running. I'd be cautious about the hill work, too, especially if you're building volume. 

ETA: I like your new avatar!

Doug is right of course but even  the high elbows don't work the same in a suit.  I think there are as many form problems with running as swimming yet there are some fast "ugly" runners out there.  They just dig deep.

I like what you said about efficiency.  I am a believer that in the longer races it is more important not to be tired out of the water than out quickly.

But really, at some point after that perfect extension, perfect catch, perfect rotation, head down, in mid-line, and parallel to the bottom of the pool don't you have to just swim faster?

Thanks everybody with the info!  I experiment a lot with workouts and have learned what works for me and what I am comfortable with.  There are so many people around here that have done a tri or two and call themselves coaches.  They say things that simply aren't true.  I question many rules of training

Suzy's advice on LSD was spot on for me too.  Most of my gains came from increased easy volume.  I did reach a point where I had to add speed work to make progress but it was 3 years in.  I think I have reached a similar point swimming.  I have a months worth of sessions with a swim coach starting next week (WAC champion and top team scorer).  I want to be strong for CdA... so I don't drown in the washing machine.