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The Electoral College (Page 2)
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 2012-11-06 2:22 PM in reply to: #4486518 |
 Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC |  Subject: RE: The Electoral Collegekevin_trapp - Rogillio - Why do we have 100 Senators? So soveriegn states have equal representation in US government. Wyoming population: ?450,000 Population of CA: 38,000,000 450,000 / 38,000,000 = 1.2% Going to the popular vote marginalizes rural areas even more than the electoral college and would give all the power to the population centers.
Wyoming has 3 electoral college votes, about one EC vote per 150,000 residents. California has 55 EC votes, roughly one EC vote per 691,000 residents. So a resident in Wyoming has a vote weighted 4.5 times more than that of a California resident's vote. How is this a fair system? I agree with Rogillio. It's fair because of the relationship between the federal and state systems. Along those lines, what was the logic for the amendment that gave DC getting three electoral votes? Only states should have electoral votes, |
| 2012-11-06 2:33 PM in reply to: #4486532 |
Champion  6056   Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: The Electoral College dontracy - 2012-11-06 2:22 PM kevin_trapp - Rogillio - Why do we have 100 Senators? So soveriegn states have equal representation in US government. Wyoming population: ?450,000 Population of CA: 38,000,000 450,000 / 38,000,000 = 1.2% Going to the popular vote marginalizes rural areas even more than the electoral college and would give all the power to the population centers.
Wyoming has 3 electoral college votes, about one EC vote per 150,000 residents. California has 55 EC votes, roughly one EC vote per 691,000 residents. So a resident in Wyoming has a vote weighted 4.5 times more than that of a California resident's vote. How is this a fair system? I agree with Rogillio. It's fair because of the relationship between the federal and state systems. Along those lines, what was the logic for the amendment that gave DC getting three electoral votes? Only states should have electoral votes, Can't agree on this one. Why should U.S. citizens who happen to live in DC not get a vote? |
| 2012-11-06 2:40 PM in reply to: #4486557 |
| Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC | Subject: RE: The Electoral College scoobysdad - Can't agree on this one. Why should U.S. citizens who happen to live in DC not get a vote? What about citizens in Puerto Rico and Guam? They set up the seat of the federal government in a neutral territory, the District of Columbia. Edited by dontracy 2012-11-06 2:43 PM |
| 2012-11-06 2:45 PM in reply to: #4486573 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: The Electoral College dontracy - 2012-11-06 2:40 PM scoobysdad - Can't agree on this one. Why should U.S. citizens who happen to live in DC not get a vote? What about citizens in Puerto Rico and Guam? Not until they pay federal income taxes in addition to the SS and Medicare taxes they pay. Edited by scoobysdad 2012-11-06 2:55 PM |
| 2012-11-06 2:47 PM in reply to: #4486480 |
Elite 4564  Boise | Subject: RE: The Electoral College TriRSquared - 2012-11-06 1:02 PM mehaner - 2012-11-06 12:32 PM tuwood - 2012-11-06 12:26 PM I saw an interesting idea about doing a hybrid EC awarding 1 vote per congressional district nationwide. This would allow everybody to count equally based on population and then hidden red districts in states like CA could have a voice as well as hidden blue districts in TX. I'm not sure if the math favors one party over another nationwide, but the concept is intriguing for me. Eh....until congressional districts are defined more arbitrarily I'm not sure if this is "fair" either. I live in a blue district (in a swing state) but it's designed as a blue district to make sure more seats (or in your proposal, electoral votes) go to Republicans. If you would look at a map, our districting does not make any logical sense unless you know about the populations of the assorted non-contiguous cities that make it up... This... some of the gerrymandered districts are just comical...
That's a perfectly logical shape. My 1 year old draws it all the time. |
| 2012-11-06 2:55 PM in reply to: #4486442 |
Master 1584 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: The Electoral College Rogillio - 2012-11-06 2:40 PM Why do we have 100 Senators? So soveriegn states have equal representation in US government. Wyoming population: ?450,000 Population of CA: 38,000,000 450,000 / 38,000,000 = 1.2% Going to the popular vote marginalizes rural areas even more than the electoral college and would give all the power to the population centers.
OK, sounds good to me. Everyone's vote should be equal, and the only way to do this is by popular vote. I live in a blue state, and while I'm happy about that, I very much feel my vote doesn't count. Why sould national presidential politics only focus on 8 states? |
| 2012-11-06 2:58 PM in reply to: #4486573 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: The Electoral College dontracy - 2012-11-06 2:40 PM scoobysdad - Can't agree on this one. Why should U.S. citizens who happen to live in DC not get a vote? They set up the seat of the federal government in a neutral territory, the District of Columbia. Then there needs to be some provision for DC citizen votes to be folded into another state or something. Otherwise, it's taxation without representation. |
| 2012-11-07 8:23 AM in reply to: #4486614 |
Expert 839 Central Mass | Subject: RE: The Electoral College scoobysdad - 2012-11-06 12:58 PM dontracy - 2012-11-06 2:40 PM Then there needs to be some provision for DC citizen votes to be folded into another state or something. Otherwise, it's taxation without representation. scoobysdad - Can't agree on this one. Why should U.S. citizens who happen to live in DC not get a vote? They set up the seat of the federal government in a neutral territory, the District of Columbia. That's literally on the DC license plates lol
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| 2012-11-07 2:16 PM in reply to: #4486064 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: The Electoral College I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this. |
| 2012-11-07 2:30 PM in reply to: #4488402 |
Master 1780 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: The Electoral College TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 3:16 PM I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this. This is the alternative that (a) makes more sense; (b) its easier to implement. Just make some rules regarding rounding up or down and go for it. It would be interesting he outcome not only on this election, but on past elections as well. |
| 2012-11-07 2:53 PM in reply to: #4488439 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: The Electoral College Samyg - 2012-11-07 3:30 PM TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 3:16 PM I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this. This is the alternative that (a) makes more sense; (b) its easier to implement. Just make some rules regarding rounding up or down and go for it. It would be interesting he outcome not only on this election, but on past elections as well. Stealing some data from Wikipedia, if you multiply the % of the popular vote in each state by the number of EC votes (and not rounding) you get: for 2008: 281.5 Obama to 244.8 McCain (It really was 365 /173) Can't find a easy source of the 2012 data yet but I'd expect it to be a lot closer. * Note: we lose about 7.6 electoral votes in 2008 because of 3rd party candidates getting these. |
| 2012-11-07 3:11 PM in reply to: #4488402 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: The Electoral College TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 2:16 PM I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this.
Good question. I was curious so I ran the numbers: ??The 538 electors, propotional to the popular vote in each state results in BO 270.59 MR 258.82 This totals only 529.41 so presumably votes were cast for other than BO and MR. So the "others" would have gotten a combined 8.59.
Bottom line is, BO would still have won but by a smaller margin.
Attachments ---------------- EC.xlsx (15KB - 21 downloads) |
| 2012-11-07 3:31 PM in reply to: #4488526 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: The Electoral College Rogillio - 2012-11-07 4:11 PM TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 2:16 PM I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this. Good question. I was curious so I ran the numbers: ??The 538 electors, propotional to the popular vote in each state results in BO 270.59 MR 258.82 This totals only 529.41 so presumably votes were cast for other than BO and MR. So the "others" would have gotten a combined 8.59. Bottom line is, BO would still have won but by a smaller margin. To me this reflects the results better than the actual EC #s. |
| 2012-11-07 3:42 PM in reply to: #4488578 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: The Electoral College TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 3:31 PM Rogillio - 2012-11-07 4:11 PM TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 2:16 PM I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this. Good question. I was curious so I ran the numbers: ??The 538 electors, propotional to the popular vote in each state results in BO 270.59 MR 258.82 This totals only 529.41 so presumably votes were cast for other than BO and MR. So the "others" would have gotten a combined 8.59. Bottom line is, BO would still have won but by a smaller margin. To me this reflects the results better than the actual EC #s. I agree. At least people would feel more like their vote meant something. If you voted for BO in Alabama, you had to know you're vote meant nothing becuase it was a slam-dunk for MR. Likewise, if you lived in NYC and voted for MR. |
| 2012-11-07 4:07 PM in reply to: #4488578 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The Electoral College TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 1:31 PM Rogillio - 2012-11-07 4:11 PM TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 2:16 PM I wonder if anyone has yet done the analysis to see what the outcome would have been if they divided the EC votes for each state by the popular vote. So if it was 60/40 in a state with 10 votes one guys would get 6 the other 4. I believe Maine and Nebraska have the ability to do this. Good question. I was curious so I ran the numbers: ??The 538 electors, propotional to the popular vote in each state results in BO 270.59 MR 258.82 This totals only 529.41 so presumably votes were cast for other than BO and MR. So the "others" would have gotten a combined 8.59. Bottom line is, BO would still have won but by a smaller margin. To me this reflects the results better than the actual EC #s. Man law? |
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