General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone? Rss Feed  
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2010-03-29 3:27 PM

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Subject: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Hi,

I am in the 7th week of my base phase for IMWI training. Last week I did a VO2 max test and received my heart rate training zones.  I found I was overtraining the first 6 weeks;  apparently I was in zones 3 and 4 most of the time - no wonder I was wiped out after each workout!

Now with the real HR data, in order to stay within the aerobic zones 2-3 when running, I've had to slow down to the point where I'm using a different gait, different muscles and feeling like I'm bouncing.  I actually had to walk a few times yesterday to keep my HR within Zone 2 (it was scheduled as a Z1 to Z2).

My Question: While still in my Base Phase, would it be better to "run" slow to stay within a HR zone or just plan on a run/walk?

I have to put trust in working in the aerobic zones, right?  My concern is that I am putting more wear and tear on my body with the slower runs (shorter stride/different posture, more "bounce") than I would with a run/walk or faster paced run.

My last two runs have seemed really easy and I have energy to spare.  I just don't feel like I'm training with these newer slower runs.

Thanks,
Don


2010-03-30 6:16 AM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Just my opinion with zero professional accolades to stand on, but I am in a somewhat similar position and some coaches suggested that I just walk occasionally for now.  As fitness builds you will be able to run faster and walk less eventually being able to run the whole workout staying in your zone.  Plus, most likely you will be walking some in the IM.  
 
That said, tomorrow I am getting  a LT test and if it ends up being way off from what I have done myself in the field, I probably will just "chuck" the HR zone training and rely more on RPE!Smile
2010-03-30 6:32 AM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Run/walk strategy is one I use and many recommend for IM runs as most folks don't run the whole 26.2 miles.

Read this

Listen to this
2010-03-30 7:19 AM
in reply to: #2757095

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
KathyG - 2010-03-30 5:32 AM

Run/walk strategy is one I use and many recommend for IM runs as most folks don't run the whole 26.2 miles.

Read this

Listen to this


The OP isn't asking about run/walk race plans, he's tal;king about walking in order to keep his HR in the correct zone during a training run. Yes, if you have to walk or run very slowly during this base phase and it's part of your plan, then do it.
2010-03-30 8:29 AM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?

dar89 - 

1st of all how did you get your VO2 max "tested"; were hook up a mask/machine to measure your O2 consumption? If not what was the protocol? (i.e. Maximal stress test done on a treadmill increaseing intensity/incline every 1-2 min and measuring HR?) How did you or whoever did the test define your training levels (aka zones)?

I personally find very hard to believe you were overtraining, maybe you were indeed going a tad to hard/long for your given fitness level hence you might have been overreaching (which I still think would be a stretch) but you certainly weren't overtraining.

Also anything below your VO2 max is an aerobic effort in nature hence even when training at different zones (which are nothing but man made levels to help us train more efficiently) like zone 4 or zone 3 is aerobic training and it improves your endurance at some degree. It is not bad to be wiped after a workout as long as you are ready to train and perform again at the next session.

*I* personally wouldn't slow down to the point you have to walk because that's not really beneficial training unless you are totally an out of shape individual that can't go more than a few minutes running or doing active recovery. In addition, HR training can be misleading if you don't understand its limitations. Base phase is nothing more than doing training at different intensities/durations within your personal limits preparing your body to handle greater loads in the future.

Limiting your training to 'x' zone for a long period of time is a waste of time for most age groupers unless you currently log a significant amount of volume and it requires you to train at lower intensities just to be able to handle a greater volume; but for that we are talking about probably 15-16+ hrs (since most AGers train on avg 7-8 hrs).

Assuming your VO2 max was tested or guesstimate correctly and your training levels calculated following a good physiological reasoning, I *personally* would go at an easy conversational pace (RPE 1-2) that feel almost too easy if I am shooting for zone 1 and let the HR be whatever it is but wouldn’t slow down so much I have to walk. 

There is a linear correlation between oxygen consumption/HR and speed hence I rather train athletes by pace but short of having training paces then IMO you could guide your effort by RPE while you understand how your HR reacts at different intensities based on your current metabolic fitness. You can do this for 4 weeks and sometimes HR might be higher or lower but most of your runs will be around the same RPE/pace and the HR avg for all should give you a better idea what your zone 1 or 2 really is.

2010-03-30 10:15 AM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
dar89 - 2010-03-29 1:27 PM Hi,

I am in the 7th week of my base phase for IMWI training. Last week I did a VO2 max test and received my heart rate training zones.  I found I was overtraining the first 6 weeks;  apparently I was in zones 3 and 4 most of the time - no wonder I was wiped out after each workout!

Now with the real HR data, in order to stay within the aerobic zones 2-3 when running, I've had to slow down to the point where I'm using a different gait, different muscles and feeling like I'm bouncing.  I actually had to walk a few times yesterday to keep my HR within Zone 2 (it was scheduled as a Z1 to Z2).

My Question: While still in my Base Phase, would it be better to "run" slow to stay within a HR zone or just plan on a run/walk?

I have to put trust in working in the aerobic zones, right?  My concern is that I am putting more wear and tear on my body with the slower runs (shorter stride/different posture, more "bounce") than I would with a run/walk or faster paced run.

My last two runs have seemed really easy and I have energy to spare.  I just don't feel like I'm training with these newer slower runs.

Thanks,
Don


^^  Short answer:  Not really.

Better answer:  What Jorge said in his post.



Only thing I'd add that others seemed to have glossed over is that your attempt to "stay in your zones" (based on what plan, by the way?) is leading you to what sounds like (but might not actually be) a less efficient running form

People talk about "listening to your body" here sometimes...I think your comment about your change in form and the conflict you're feeling between what is probably a one-size-fits-all training plan and your actual run history is a pretty good example of what that means.  Reading your log a bit, I think I noticed you've had shin splints recently (before changing form), so there may be some good reason to think you are overtraining or that your form could stand the change, but I'd caution against too dramatic a change too quickly (you could find yourself with runners knee from the additional pounding you are concerned about, which is--trust me--more debilitating than shin splints) especially if it is based on a training plan that isn't carefully constructed for you and your specific goals and history.  Just my .02, of course.



Edited by tcovert 2010-03-30 10:17 AM


2010-03-30 2:23 PM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
I am not a coach but I can give you my personal experience on this. I did my first IM last year with it only being my second year in tris. I had a coach and followed the plan to the letter. Kept my runs in zone 2 with was a struggle and i did feel a change in form. I stuck with it for several months because my coach kept assuring me it was the right thing to do. My times got progresssively slower and slower all year long. He did have some speed work once a week but mostly zone 2 runs in the plan. So I needed up doing a half mary in oct 08 at 1:56 and in Oct. 09 2:16 after about 8 months of solid running. So frustrating to get slower by "following the plan." This year I am not going that. I am going my Rate of Percieved Exertion and doing one session of speedwork, one tempo run, and one long run (at about a rpe of 6-7) and my times are coming down. Last year for the IM My friend and I had the same training plan and the same time in the 08 half mary and she NEVER followed HR for runs and she beat me in the IM mary by 25 minutes! And are bike fitness is very similiar because we road together all the time and had similiar times in HIM and aqua velos. Moral of my story: if you want to be disapppointed in your run come IM day, keep training zone 2. But what the hell do I know. Just my personal experience and I won't go it again.
2010-03-30 7:08 PM
in reply to: #2757074

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Gregkl - 2010-03-30 6:16 AM Just my opinion with zero professional accolades to stand on, but I am in a somewhat similar position and some coaches suggested that I just walk occasionally for now.  As fitness builds you will be able to run faster and walk less eventually being able to run the whole workout staying in your zone.  Plus, most likely you will be walking some in the IM.  
 
That said, tomorrow I am getting  a LT test and if it ends up being way off from what I have done myself in the field, I probably will just "chuck" the HR zone training and rely more on RPE!Smile


Have fun during your test.  I thought mine was fascinating.

bryancd: You answered my question directly, but my plan doesn't state I should run/walk during my training runs.  I was applying the (my) thought that to train within a HR zone that I would have to walk some during the run to bring my HR back into the zone.  You're right that I'm still in the 10 week base phase and that's where I want to hash out my HR training.  I will have plenty of interval work during the build and peak phases.

tcovert:  I am using Don Fink's Be Iron Fit Intermediate Plan which is 30 wks split into 3 phases: base, build, peak.  I have noticed that the 3 runs (all 1 hr) since using my HR zones, my shin splints have virtually gone away and I generally feel better the rest of the day.  I am using a different form and stride because of the need to slow down, so my calves are feeling it more but they recover quickly.  Otherwise I feel great (probably due to a number of factors).  I've read about cadence and that efficient runners tend to be near 90 - I am now approaching that number since I was a 78-81 cadence previously.  Today I also focused on reducing the bounce which helped my speed a bit and didn't cause any new pains.  I also kept closer to the upper end of my Z2 for much of the run.  I kind of wonder if I have found my efficient running form, but just have to build my speed over time and try to do that with the new form.  I'm certainly slower, but feel like I can go much longer; which seems only right.
2010-03-31 12:06 AM
in reply to: #2757307

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Hi Jorge,
My test was done using a mask, hooked up to a machine, and running on the treadmill starting at 5% grade with increases in speed every 3 minutes.  I ended up at a 7% grade at I think a 7.5 pace and was winded at 14:30.  I was tested to exhaustion.  Here is the tester's response on HR Zone calculation: Our zones are calculated on % of max HR, and are adjusted for AT if necessary.
Here was my test data:
MHR: 194
MaxVO2: 45.3
Est. AT HR: 173
Z1: 116-135 (active recovery) aerobic
Z2: 136-154 (aerobic/endurance) aerobic
Z3: 155-174 (lactic acid tolerance/tempo/race pace training) Aerobic/Anaerobic
Z4: 175-183 (Threshold/Interval) anaerobic
Z5: 184-194 (Maximal effort - anaerobic)

By some of your comments, and some further reading elsewhere (online, suggested reading, and Friel's training bible) it seems that I should go by RPE, but use the HR as a guide if my perception of effort seems off.  I am definitely not very good at RPE, thus using HR gives me something to base off of.  It seems to make sense to know what your AT is approximately so at least you can stay aerobic if that is your goal for the session.  I want to be prepared for the build phase which interval work begins.  I'll be ready since I feel that my base trainer is getting easier for me.

As you've seen by my previous post that running slower is allowing me to find things out about my running style; this is actually helping me.  The few walks I've done probably don't total more than 2 minutes over the hour I ran.  But, I know I feel comfortable pushing my AT and a bit over now and again - and still get a good base run in.  My body didn't like what I was doing to it a couple weeks ago.


JorgeM - 2010-03-30 8:29 AM

dar89 - 

1st of all how did you get your VO2 max "tested"; were hook up a mask/machine to measure your O2 consumption? If not what was the protocol? (i.e. Maximal stress test done on a treadmill increaseing intensity/incline every 1-2 min and measuring HR?) How did you or whoever did the test define your training levels (aka zones)?

I personally find very hard to believe you were overtraining, maybe you were indeed going a tad to hard/long for your given fitness level hence you might have been overreaching (which I still think would be a stretch) but you certainly weren't overtraining.

Also anything below your VO2 max is an aerobic effort in nature hence even when training at different zones (which are nothing but man made levels to help us train more efficiently) like zone 4 or zone 3 is aerobic training and it improves your endurance at some degree. It is not bad to be wiped after a workout as long as you are ready to train and perform again at the next session.

*I* personally wouldn't slow down to the point you have to walk because that's not really beneficial training unless you are totally an out of shape individual that can't go more than a few minutes running or doing active recovery. In addition, HR training can be misleading if you don't understand its limitations. Base phase is nothing more than doing training at different intensities/durations within your personal limits preparing your body to handle greater loads in the future.

Limiting your training to 'x' zone for a long period of time is a waste of time for most age groupers unless you currently log a significant amount of volume and it requires you to train at lower intensities just to be able to handle a greater volume; but for that we are talking about probably 15-16+ hrs (since most AGers train on avg 7-8 hrs).

Assuming your VO2 max was tested or guesstimate correctly and your training levels calculated following a good physiological reasoning, I *personally* would go at an easy conversational pace (RPE 1-2) that feel almost too easy if I am shooting for zone 1 and let the HR be whatever it is but wouldn’t slow down so much I have to walk. 

There is a linear correlation between oxygen consumption/HR and speed hence I rather train athletes by pace but short of having training paces then IMO you could guide your effort by RPE while you understand how your HR reacts at different intensities based on your current metabolic fitness. You can do this for 4 weeks and sometimes HR might be higher or lower but most of your runs will be around the same RPE/pace and the HR avg for all should give you a better idea what your zone 1 or 2 really is.

2010-03-31 10:46 AM
in reply to: #2759386

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
dar89 - 2010-03-31 12:06 AM Hi Jorge,
My test was done using a mask, hooked up to a machine, and running on the treadmill starting at 5% grade with increases in speed every 3 minutes.  I ended up at a 7% grade at I think a 7.5 pace and was winded at 14:30.  I was tested to exhaustion.  Here is the tester's response on HR Zone calculation: Our zones are calculated on % of max HR, and are adjusted for AT if necessary.
Here was my test data:
MHR: 194
MaxVO2: 45.3
Est. AT HR: 173
Z1: 116-135 (active recovery) aerobic
Z2: 136-154 (aerobic/endurance) aerobic
Z3: 155-174 (lactic acid tolerance/tempo/race pace training) Aerobic/Anaerobic
Z4: 175-183 (Threshold/Interval) anaerobic
Z5: 184-194 (Maximal effort - anaerobic)

By some of your comments, and some further reading elsewhere (online, suggested reading, and Friel's training bible) it seems that I should go by RPE, but use the HR as a guide if my perception of effort seems off.  I am definitely not very good at RPE, thus using HR gives me something to base off of.  It seems to make sense to know what your AT is approximately so at least you can stay aerobic if that is your goal for the session.  I want to be prepared for the build phase which interval work begins.  I'll be ready since I feel that my base trainer is getting easier for me.

As you've seen by my previous post that running slower is allowing me to find things out about my running style; this is actually helping me.  The few walks I've done probably don't total more than 2 minutes over the hour I ran.  But, I know I feel comfortable pushing my AT and a bit over now and again - and still get a good base run in.  My body didn't like what I was doing to it a couple weeks ago.




Ok so it seems the test was more than a guesstimate which is good though without knowing the equipment it might be off or not but that is another topic and it doesn't matter all that much to be honest. Did they happen to record what was your speed/incline when you achieved the oxygen consumption plateau (VO2 max or peak)?

If so you could use that to determine your training paces using Daniel's VDOT or McMillan online calculators and most likely that will be more in line with the work done by your muscles (legs) when exercising and will be a better measure of your training intensity as opposed to your heart rate. As I said HR can be misleading unless you understand its limitations but if you get to know how your different training levels relate to it can be an effective tool.

Please know that I am not trying to discourage you to use a HR or the training levels, what I am suggesting is for you to also take into consideration your perceived exertion, possible guide your efforts by it and/or pace and learn how your HR relates to that. While the relationship between oxygen consumption/HR vs. speed is mostly linear other things can affect your HR hence it might make it tricky to gauge the real work done by your legs at a given moment.

Finally, by limiting your training to a particular heart rate zone that might be indicative of the work done on your legs or not, and even walking in order to remain within that target zone IMO you will be wasting some precious time you could use to achieve greater fitness gains by just running by feel.

Go at a mostly easy pace, ask your self if this feels easy (RPE), if you know your training paces-check your speed, and check the HR to see what’s it is saying. In the course of weeks after you learn to relate each other you’ll know when your HR is misleading you and you can just go by pace.

PS. for biking a HR can be a great training tool (short of a power meter) because unlike running when speed can tells a bit easier how hard or not we are working, on the bike we have other variables to consider hence the use of a HR can be rather effective.

Good luck!

2010-03-31 10:10 PM
in reply to: #2760077

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
JorgeM - 2010-03-31 10:46 AM

Ok so it seems the test was more than a guesstimate which is good though without knowing the equipment it might be off or not but that is another topic and it doesn't matter all that much to be honest. Did they happen to record what was your speed/incline when you achieved the oxygen consumption plateau (VO2 max or peak)?

If so you could use that to determine your training paces using Daniel's VDOT or McMillan online calculators and most likely that will be more in line with the work done by your muscles (legs) when exercising and will be a better measure of your training intensity as opposed to your heart rate. As I said HR can be misleading unless you understand its limitations but if you get to know how your different training levels relate to it can be an effective tool.

Please know that I am not trying to discourage you to use a HR or the training levels, what I am suggesting is for you to also take into consideration your perceived exertion, possible guide your efforts by it and/or pace and learn how your HR relates to that. While the relationship between oxygen consumption/HR vs. speed is mostly linear other things can affect your HR hence it might make it tricky to gauge the real work done by your legs at a given moment.

Finally, by limiting your training to a particular heart rate zone that might be indicative of the work done on your legs or not, and even walking in order to remain within that target zone IMO you will be wasting some precious time you could use to achieve greater fitness gains by just running by feel.

Go at a mostly easy pace, ask your self if this feels easy (RPE), if you know your training paces-check your speed, and check the HR to see what’s it is saying. In the course of weeks after you learn to relate each other you’ll know when your HR is misleading you and you can just go by pace.

PS. for biking a HR can be a great training tool (short of a power meter) because unlike running when speed can tells a bit easier how hard or not we are working, on the bike we have other variables to consider hence the use of a HR can be rather effective.

Good luck!



Thanks again for more insight.  I believe my VO2max was 45.3 at 7% incline and 7.5 pace.  I will check my training paces on the sites you recommended.  I am beginning to understand the guidance of HR and the pacing  and RPE relationships.  I will check these out over my runs on Fri and Sun.


2010-03-31 10:10 PM
in reply to: #2757074

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Gregkl - 2010-03-30 6:16 AM Just my opinion with zero professional accolades to stand on, but I am in a somewhat similar position and some coaches suggested that I just walk occasionally for now.  As fitness builds you will be able to run faster and walk less eventually being able to run the whole workout staying in your zone.  Plus, most likely you will be walking some in the IM.  
 
That said, tomorrow I am getting  a LT test and if it ends up being way off from what I have done myself in the field, I probably will just "chuck" the HR zone training and rely more on RPE!Smile


So how did your test go?
2010-04-01 7:09 AM
in reply to: #2761756

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
dar89 - 2010-03-31 10:10 PM
Gregkl - 2010-03-30 6:16 AM Just my opinion with zero professional accolades to stand on, but I am in a somewhat similar position and some coaches suggested that I just walk occasionally for now.  As fitness builds you will be able to run faster and walk less eventually being able to run the whole workout staying in your zone.  Plus, most likely you will be walking some in the IM.  
 
That said, tomorrow I am getting  a LT test and if it ends up being way off from what I have done myself in the field, I probably will just "chuck" the HR zone training and rely more on RPE!Smile


So how did your test go?


Test went well.  I don't have all my numbers yet.  He is going to put together all the data, add suggested training zones, what it all means, etc. and send it to me on Friday.  I also had him do a bike fit on me.  That was great also.  Best fit by far I have ever had.  He gave me exercises to strengthen areas where he saw weaknesses, lack of flexibility, and imbalances.  I feel more confident about riding my road bike in IMWI now.  LT test was $100 but he gave me a 10% discount since I had a fit done.
2010-04-08 6:47 PM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Your HR zones look screwy for your LT HR.  I think it would look more like:


1 130-148
2149-158
3 159-165
4 166-174
5 175+

So you can cruise in the high 150's on your run and you should be able to cary a decent but not too fast run pace (z2)
2010-04-09 5:14 AM
in reply to: #2778545

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Baowolf - 2010-04-08 6:47 PM Your HR zones look screwy for your LT HR.  I think it would look more like:


1 130-148
2149-158
3 159-165
4 166-174
5 175+

So you can cruise in the high 150's on your run and you should be able to cary a decent but not too fast run pace (z2)


Who's look screwy Baowolf?
2010-04-09 12:42 PM
in reply to: #2758368

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
lesleyann - 2010-03-30 3:23 PM I am not a coach but I can give you my personal experience on this. I did my first IM last year with it only being my second year in tris. I had a coach and followed the plan to the letter. Kept my runs in zone 2 with was a struggle and i did feel a change in form. I stuck with it for several months because my coach kept assuring me it was the right thing to do. My times got progresssively slower and slower all year long. He did have some speed work once a week but mostly zone 2 runs in the plan. So I needed up doing a half mary in oct 08 at 1:56 and in Oct. 09 2:16 after about 8 months of solid running. So frustrating to get slower by "following the plan." This year I am not going that. I am going my Rate of Percieved Exertion and doing one session of speedwork, one tempo run, and one long run (at about a rpe of 6-7) and my times are coming down. Last year for the IM My friend and I had the same training plan and the same time in the 08 half mary and she NEVER followed HR for runs and she beat me in the IM mary by 25 minutes! And are bike fitness is very similiar because we road together all the time and had similiar times in HIM and aqua velos. Moral of my story: if you want to be disapppointed in your run come IM day, keep training zone 2. But what the hell do I know. Just my personal experience and I won't go it again.


It is very possible that you might have plateaued  training in Z1/2 but your friend had not. When that does happen, aren't you supposed to necessarily incorporate more tempo and speedwork to continue improving? Contrarily, if an athlete hasn't plateaued with Z1/2 training, they should continue to improve to make running overall way easier. 


2010-04-09 3:47 PM
in reply to: #2780506

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
I agree with everyone that says I hrm and zones are useful training tools but not the be end of all.  Use them as a guide and to listen to your body and learn what different perceived exertions feel like. 
I use a hrm myself often but is always as a back up and never in a race  - things like weather, adrenaline etc can always affect hr.

I would suggest you think about the "talk test" to see if you are in z2. If you can talk to a friend (yes it can be an imaginery one) in short sentences without gasping for breath then it is probably z2.  If it is only one or two words at a time you've probably moved up into another zone.

2010-04-10 7:16 PM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
I would be interested in seeing your running form and gait, too (if you're over-extending and not running "center"), and cadence, along with your Z2 HR zone, since you're nearby.
2010-04-14 1:49 PM
in reply to: #2756089

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?

MHR: 194
MaxVO2: 45.3
Est. AT HR: 173
Z1: 116-135 (active recovery) aerobic
Z2: 136-154 (aerobic/endurance) aerobic
Z3: 155-174 (lactic acid tolerance/tempo/race pace training) Aerobic/Anaerobic
Z4: 175-183 (Threshold/Interval) anaerobic
Z5: 184-194 (Maximal effort - anaerobic)

vs

1 130-148
2149-158
3 159-165
4 166-174
5 175+


Edited by Baowolf 2010-04-14 1:59 PM
2010-04-14 3:19 PM
in reply to: #2780506

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
Hmmm, not sure. she has been running marathons for years. I am the newbie runner.

I may have plateaued by my coach never made any adjustments to the plan even when I expressed concern on SEVERAL occasions. I was doing one track workout a week however.

Anyway, good news. I have continued to ignore my HR and just PRd at the half marathon distance this weekend!! So I am going with my plan for this season. I did also notice that my speed at zone 2 has gone up from 10:40 mm to 9:30 mm.
2010-04-14 4:23 PM
in reply to: #2756089

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Subject: RE: Run slow or run/walk to stay in heart Rate Zone?
I appreciate this thread guys!  Thanks for all your great knowledge/opinions. 

The HR vs PE issue is a good one.  I too am following the Be Iron Fit plan.  Intermediate last year, advanced this year (so far anyway)  and it focuses on HR.  On those days when I'm especially slow in the HR I'm supposed to be at (Z2: 75-85% of max HR according to the book) I get really frustrated.  And it changes all the time.  For example,  last weekend it was super warm out and I ran during the heat of the day and I was at the MAX end of Z2 but running S L O W.  Last night, on my treadmill, I was 1.5 mph FASTER but at the same HR.  I keep thinking that if I just keep at it, I will get faster while still staying in the zone... but then I have a run that is stinking slow...  but I'm rambling...

ANYWAY - this thread gives me something to think about - maybe I shouldn't use HR as the only factor that determines how fast my run is...  I'm definately going to be reading up more on this topic!

thanks again!


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