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2008-06-19 11:17 AM

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Subject: Training Errors

Here's a link to an article on The Science of Sport (one of my favorite web sites for training info)

http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2008/06/how-to-prevent-running-injury.html

I found this article interesting and it should be required reading for beginners.  In the article they state:

"These are two examples of training errors, and it is our belief that the vast majority of running injuries are the result of a training error, and not because of biomechanical problems, shoe problems, leg length discrepancies, or any other static variable."

This idea goes against a lot of what you read where the emphasis is to blame biomechanical issues for training injuries.  I agree with the article that most injuries come from not allowing sufficient adaptation before increasing stress to the system.  This ties into other articles on Science of Sport where they found no decrease in running injuries over the last 30 years although there has been improvement in shoes.

In the article they also discuss "out-racing" training which leads to injuries.  I think out-racing training also manifests itself in other ways such as cramps, intestinal issues and nausea and gets blamed as poor nutrition.  As the training cycle consists of stress/load, recovery and adaptation, it would be interesting to hear points of view on how to add intensity/load to the training cycle without injury.   I think the typical beginner has a hard time realizing how and when it is appropriate to add load.  I think a lot of us underestimate the time it takes for adaptation to occur.  We have a tendancy to think in weeks or months instead of years.

Ernie



2008-06-19 11:38 AM
in reply to: #1476622

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Subject: RE: Training Errors

I read the article yesterday and of course I agree (as usually do with all their articles). I've stated that here before and it is one of the reasons I always refer to training load as the most imortant aspect of endurance training. In general athletes could avoid many injury setbacks but just adopting the right load, building up slowly and posting consistent training day after day, month after month, year after year.

good read!

2008-06-19 11:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Training Errors
ejc999 - 2008-06-19 10:17 AM

  I think a lot of us underestimate the time it takes for adaptation to occur.  We have a tendancy to think in weeks or months instead of years.

Ernie

IMO far too many people try to run hard before they've established a solid base. The often heard advice is to not do speedwork until you've been running for a minimum of 6 months to a year AND have a solid base. A solid base is not 10-15 miles/week. It is more in the 30-50 miles/week range. This means many people should spend an entire year of running at an easy pace and build up to running substantial volume for several months BEFORE they introduce speed into their workouts.

Instead there are people who've been running 10-15 miles/week for a month or two who then want to do tempo runs and intervals. IMO that's a recipe for pain and injury for many people, especially people who are carrying some excess weight and/or have not been involved in activities that have built strong leg muscles.

Certainly there are exceptions, but many people who excel at running are those who ran substantial volumes in high school and/or college. These people may have been running 60-100 miles/week for a period of several years. Because of this base they can then reduce the overall volume and maintain or increase speed though tempo and intervals - and do this for many years after the initial base building phase.

Just my opinions. YMMV.

2008-06-19 3:48 PM
in reply to: #1476622

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Subject: RE: Training Errors

I thought this thread would provoke more discussion.  I guess I should have titled it "Throwing a donut at unshaved triathlete lifting weights with underwear under tri shorts".

Anyway, they posted a follow up article today, in case anyone's interested:

http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/

They seem to downplay Chi/Evolution running as a solution but admit they don't have a lot of scientific research to back up their theories.

Ernie

2008-06-19 4:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Training Errors
After reading the article I say they're only preaching common sense, and there's no talking common sense into people. I know this because I decided a week before the race to run the Chicago Marathon last year (AKA The Chicago Death Walk). My longest run to date was ONE half-marathon three weeks prior. People told me not to do it and there's risk of injury and so on and so forth, and I knew they were right.

Thankfully I did it (it took 4:12:12, which was better than most and thankfully I wasn't one of those who almost died) and had no ill effects from it, but it was in my head and nobody was going to tell me I couldn't do it despite being undertrained.
2008-06-19 4:14 PM
in reply to: #1477365

Subject: RE: Training Errors
ejc999 - 2008-06-19 4:48 PM

I thought this thread would provoke more discussion.  I guess I should have titled it "Throwing a donut at unshaved triathlete lifting weights with underwear under tri shorts".

You forgot "while walking into spin class".

That's all I have to add to this discusssion. I'm not a runner by trade and I'm not particularly fast. Though I will add that I've seen speed gains (at least apart from in-racing running) simply from running consistently when I was training for the 10-miler. I've slacked off a teeny bit since then, but can't wait to see what happens when I start training (smartly, of course) for the marathon.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-06-19 4:15 PM


2008-06-19 4:16 PM
in reply to: #1476622

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Subject: RE: Training Errors
Don't feel bad, Ernie, it looks like Tri talk was pretty slow today. I don't have time to read the article now, but hope to look at it when I get back on Monday. Take care .
2008-06-19 7:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Training Errors
Donskiman - 2008-06-19 9:53 AM

IMO far too many people try to run hard before they've established a solid base. The often heard advice is to not do speedwork until you've been running for a minimum of 6 months to a year AND have a solid base. A solid base is not 10-15 miles/week. It is more in the 30-50 miles/week range. This means many people should spend an entire year of running at an easy pace and build up to running substantial volume for several months BEFORE they introduce speed into their workouts.

Instead there are people who've been running 10-15 miles/week for a month or two who then want to do tempo runs and intervals. IMO that's a recipe for pain and injury for many people, especially people who are carrying some excess weight and/or have not been involved in activities that have built strong leg muscles.



Disclaimer: I'm still very new to running. I agree with this for the most part -- but 30-50 miles a week before introducing any speedwork? That seems like A LOT. I've read 20-30 miles, which seems more reasonable. Or maybe it depends on the kind of speedwork? For example, I run about 20 miles a week now (I've been between 15-25 for four or five months), and I've been told that it's OK -- even encouraged -- to work in a tempo run once a week. I have no desire to start running intervals, which seem like they could be rough on my body, at this point. As per "the rules," the vast majority of my running is at a very easy, very slow pace, but I think I'd go a little crazy if I couldn't get in just a little bit of speed. Maybe I'm just a big cheater!

Re: the article in the link. It's a good read, but the problem is that the people who need to read it the most are the people who go into endurance running with no research and no plan -- and they're not going to see these articles. I like to do a lot of research into things I'm interested in (that's why I'm at BT), so I'm pretty good about training carefully. So to me, yes, the article just seems like common sense. But sadly, it's not common sense to a lot of people, and I'm not sure how to get the message to them.


Edited by Fielding 2008-06-19 7:40 PM
2008-06-19 7:57 PM
in reply to: #1476742

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Subject: RE: Training Errors
Donskiman - 2008-06-19 11:53 AM
ejc999 - 2008-06-19 10:17 AM

  I think a lot of us underestimate the time it takes for adaptation to occur.  We have a tendancy to think in weeks or months instead of years.

Ernie

IMO far too many people try to run hard before they've established a solid base. The often heard advice is to not do speedwork until you've been running for a minimum of 6 months to a year AND have a solid base. A solid base is not 10-15 miles/week. It is more in the 30-50 miles/week range. This means many people should spend an entire year of running at an easy pace and build up to running substantial volume for several months BEFORE they introduce speed into their workouts.

Instead there are people who've been running 10-15 miles/week for a month or two who then want to do tempo runs and intervals. IMO that's a recipe for pain and injury for many people, especially people who are carrying some excess weight and/or have not been involved in activities that have built strong leg muscles.

Certainly there are exceptions, but many people who excel at running are those who ran substantial volumes in high school and/or college. These people may have been running 60-100 miles/week for a period of several years. Because of this base they can then reduce the overall volume and maintain or increase speed though tempo and intervals - and do this for many years after the initial base building phase.

Just my opinions. YMMV.

Good post I agree with the premise of your post just a few points to consider: as noted on the new article from today when I am designing a training plan for a given athlete I have to consider training load (their point number 3) and the athletes specific needs, goals, fitness, strengths/weaknesses, IOW his/her physiology. I would be a fool to set up the same plan for a beginner than for a experienced runner or the same load for a tall/heavy runner than for a short/thin one.

While in general it is a good idea to have certain guidelines like run ‘x’ miles before bumping up intensity you have to think in terms of the athlete. Some athletes would benefit from running less volume but more intensity than others. Finally and again making reference to one’s physiology, I never ran in college or high school at all, I did played soccer from 5 to 15 y/o and that’s about it yet my physiology seems optimal for running and with a relative low mileage compared to others I can get to run solid paces.

The point is that load/physiology is very important to design a training plan and this can help you diminish your chances for injuries unless you have some specific mechanical issues.

I think the articles provide a great message; be thoughtful of your plan and most likely your chances to stay injury free will be greater.

2008-06-20 9:39 AM
in reply to: #1476622

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Subject: RE: Training Errors

Yeah.  What he said.

One other point to consider is that 'speedwork' is not an all or nothing affair.  I've been running 20+ years and I still 'ease' in to speedwork every training season, by (during late base phase) doing mild speedwork (typically shorter and fewer intervals than I will do later in the season, during build phase), and not quite as fast, but still at a decent pace.  I've felt that these workouts (call them 'pre-speed' workouts) get my body ready for the real speedwork later.

Fartlek is also a nice way to get a little variety in without committing to all-out intervals or tempo runs.  I think that a beginner running 10-15/week for a few months can throw some fartlek in for fun.  Just be sensible.



Edited by mdickson68 2008-06-20 9:40 AM
2008-06-20 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Training Errors
Donskiman - 2008-06-19 12:53 PM

IMO far too many people try to run hard before they've established a solid base. The often heard advice is to not do speedwork until you've been running for a minimum of 6 months to a year AND have a solid base. A solid base is not 10-15 miles/week. It is more in the 30-50 miles/week range.



I'm a long time runner, and agree with your base milage estimates. I would add an addendum though for our multi-sport bretheren. 30-50 miles, or the equivilent in aerobic activity. So a Tri person who runs 3 days a week average 25 miles, and bikes say 100 a week, in my book would be okay for doing speed work.



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