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open water training
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 2008-10-15 6:29 PM |
Member  13 Memphis, TN |  Subject: open water trainingI train for my swimming in a 50 meter lap pool. I have been doing well and swimming 1000+ m without problem and with pretty good times. However, when I get in races (open water) I do not do nearly as well, not even close. I am around a 20 stoke per 50 meter swimmer and have no trouble with my breathing. In open water, I have a hard time breathing in between strokes and find myself having to do a couple of breast strokes everynow and then. As you know this kills momentum and times. I guess what I am asking is what do I need to do this off season in a pool that would help my open water swimming. I already do alot of the basic drills that most training plans call for. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks BT'ers, this has been my best racing year and alot has to do with my reading these forums. |
| 2008-10-15 7:02 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Elite 5316  Alturas, California | Subject: RE: open water training If it is the rough water that is causing you problems with your breathing.... you need to swim in rough water to adjust I would think. The main problem you are probably having is not rotating far enough to get air in the rougher water. It take practice, but you need to rotate to the side a bit more to get air if the water is rough. You can practice rotating farther in the pool, swim when there are 50 kids in the pool for added roughness or swim open water. Basicaly you need to get to the air with body rotation. I am not a great swimmer, but that is my best guess. I am sure our stronger swimmers will dive right in with better feedback after they get off work and out of the pool. |
| 2008-10-15 7:07 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: open water training Not sure if I can help without knowing the problem. Why do you have trouble breathing? What does that mean specifically? Sucking in water? Are you over stressed or panicked needing more air? Not sure if you can simulate an OWS in the pool. I have learned in OWS, I need to turn more and take a breath almost looking up, rather than to the side. ALSO, practice breathing on both sides. In OWS, wave are usually coming from one side. If you breath away from the waves, it's easier. |
| 2008-10-15 7:38 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Master 1741   Chapel Hill, NC | Subject: RE: open water training Well, the real answer is not the easy answer. What you need is more open water practice. OWS is very different from the pool. You have to learn to sight so you can swim straight. You also learn how to deal with currents, waves and chop. And learn to be comfortable in the murkiness. It took me a whole summer of swimming in the lake once a week before I could do all of these things well. After two years of swimming in the lake once a week, I finally did a race where I did the entire second half without stopping for any breast stroke breaks. (I did stop during the first half, but only because it was foggy and I couldn't see the buoys). Beyond that, one thing that does help in the pool is to get left/right balance. If you have better left/right balance, you will tend to swim straighter, making it easier to swim straight in open water. I work on left/right balance by doing my warm ups and cool downs as 300's like this: 100 breathe every three; 100 breathe every time to the right; 100 breathe every time to the left. Sometimes I'll do the main sets this way too, depending on my mood. You will have a weaker side. Focus on how your body feels, and think about what is different about your stroke on the weak side and try to correct it. (I am constantly focusing on how different parts of my body feel while swimming, and trying to figure out how to correct it.) You can also do 'blind swimming drill' in the pool, but this is a bit risky, and hard to do with lanemates. (I hit the hard plastic lane line recently doing this and really banged up my nose - ouch!) Anyway, here's what you do: Close your eyes and swim six strokes. Then lift your head as if sighting and open your eyes. Do another six strokes. Then swim to the end of the lane, and start over going back down the lane. Repeat. etc. PS: you will always be naturally faster in the pool because of pushing off the wall. Personally, I never push hard off the wall. I wrote about this here: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... Not everyone agreed with me, but I still like the idea! Good luck! Edited by keyone 2008-10-15 7:45 PM |
| 2008-10-16 5:42 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Extreme Veteran 680 Boulder, CO | Subject: RE: open water training If I could give you four things to work on as an experienced pool swimmer looking to improve in O/W... #1 - learn to swim with people around you; do pack swimming in the 50m pool. We would take two lane lines out, and do open water races with turn-buoys under the flags. Great O/W training. #2 -- learn how to pace your start properly -- most folks go BANANAS (!) at the beginning in O/W. Learn how to TT well in your 50 meter pool with appropriate start pacing. #3 -- learn how to TT well in the pool -- 400; 1000; 1500; 2000; 3000 -- until you can really race these in the pool, don't expect to swim them fast in O/W. Long course is best. #4 -- if you want to swim fast in O/W then you need to tolerate pace changes -- O/W is more like bike racing, than TTing. So you need to tolerate bridging, pace changes, drafting and have good in-pack awareness. These are specific skills that need to be trained. The big one that most swimmers don't train -- but we really need as triathletes -- is changing speed within an interval. Learning how to recover while swimming (rather than while on the wall)... key to avoid getting punched out the back at the first pace change. Now... with all that said... most of us will benefit the most from riding more, than swimming a ton. Still, swimming is a great focus for Nov-Feb when the weather is poor for riding. gordo |
| 2008-10-16 5:56 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Regular 118 The Land of Misfit Toys | Subject: RE: open water training This is more for swim starts, but I highly recommend practicing this. The more I do it, the more my times fall in open water. |
| 2008-10-17 2:28 AM in reply to: #1748330 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: open water training GordoByrn - 2008-10-16 3:42 PM If I could give you four things to work on as an experienced pool swimmer looking to improve in O/W... #1 - learn to swim with people around you; do pack swimming in the 50m pool. We would take two lane lines out, and do open water races with turn-buoys under the flags. Great O/W training. #2 -- learn how to pace your start properly -- most folks go BANANAS (!) at the beginning in O/W. Learn how to TT well in your 50 meter pool with appropriate start pacing. #3 -- learn how to TT well in the pool -- 400; 1000; 1500; 2000; 3000 -- until you can really race these in the pool, don't expect to swim them fast in O/W. Long course is best. #4 -- if you want to swim fast in O/W then you need to tolerate pace changes -- O/W is more like bike racing, than TTing. So you need to tolerate bridging, pace changes, drafting and have good in-pack awareness. These are specific skills that need to be trained. The big one that most swimmers don't train -- but we really need as triathletes -- is changing speed within an interval. Learning how to recover while swimming (rather than while on the wall)... key to avoid getting punched out the back at the first pace change. Now... with all that said... most of us will benefit the most from riding more, than swimming a ton. Still, swimming is a great focus for Nov-Feb when the weather is poor for riding. gordo Good advice on open water swimming. Also good advice on biking that I should follow but don't always. |
| 2008-10-17 2:14 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: open water training Tri-Ro - 2008-10-15 6:29 PM I train for my swimming in a 50 meter lap pool. I have been doing well and swimming 1000+ m without problem and with pretty good times. However, when I get in races (open water) I do not do nearly as well, not even close. I am around a 20 stoke per 50 meter swimmer and have no trouble with my breathing. In open water, I have a hard time breathing in between strokes and find myself having to do a couple of breast strokes everynow and then. As you know this kills momentum and times. I guess what I am asking is what do I need to do this off season in a pool that would help my open water swimming. I already do alot of the basic drills that most training plans call for. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks BT'ers, this has been my best racing year and alot has to do with my reading these forums. In the open water swim clinics that I put on, 95% of the problems are breathing. Its not physical, it's mental. First there's the anxiety. Most people are a little panicked in murky water with 100 other people. Second there's the start, people just get a little overwhelmed. And third, are the technical aspects. People hate getting lake water in their mouth so they don't exhale underwater. Instead they exhale AND inhale when they turn to breathe. That causes very shallow breathing and they become out of breath. I also see people who get caught up with others, navigating, racing, etc. so they forget to breathe right. Again it results in very shallow breathing. Finally, there's the rough water as was mentioned. Poorer swimmers stop altogether to get a clear shot of air, but most won't rotate enough and end up with a mouth full of water (see above). I'm sure there are many other reasons, but these are the big ones I have come across. |
| 2008-10-17 2:53 PM in reply to: #1745452 |
Extreme Veteran 638 Carlsbad, CA | Subject: RE: open water training |
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