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2008-10-25 2:28 PM

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Subject: bicycle accident in a group
So today I'm on my group ride. It's a large group and I just started with this group...trying to get to know people, etc.

We're pacelining and doing about 28 mph. Some guy totally eats it, slams into the pavement. He hit his head, helmet cracked, bleeding from the nose, some road rash on his hip and elbow.

And of course, no one knows what to do. We're all looking at him as he's lying there in pain asking stupid questions like "are you okay?" (duh, he just crashed, he's obviously not).

We were about 1 1/2 hours away from the meeting place where everyone parks.

So he was able to stand, but kept asking "what happened? what did I hit?" I thought: "wow, he's got a concussion" but we're out in the middle of nowhere.

I and another guy who knew him better rode back to get his car while some others stayed with him and watched over him. The other guy was going to drive him home. Some people in the group, simply continued with their ride.

I couldn't help but think about how unprepared and stupid I was for not knowing what to do in this situation compared to the average joe. I mean, hell, aren't I a doctor?

This will probably happen again in the future. What should've we done?
Call the ambulance? He wasn't unconscious and is a small concussion justifiable to call 911?
I don't think he should've been riding, but how do you get a guy back home other than going and getting his car? What about his bike?
How do you assess the severity of injury? ie: okay, no broken bones, he's obviously confused, probably shouldn't ride, but now what? Can the police/fire department come and get him? (it says on the side of the police car to protect and serve, doesn't it)
The guy had no ROAD ID, and evidently is a single guy that has no immediate family we could've called, and if he did, we wouldn't have known.

I thought about what I would want done for me in that situation. Since I have kids/wife. I would've liked to have some emergency people come and get me and pick up my bike too (any of you who know how much these bikes cost would understand why in a life/death situation, a person still says 'hey, my bike').

This guy was in no shape to ride home.
After all this, I am really embarrassed about myself and lack of knowledge about what to do. Since others were watching him and helping him and getting his car to go pick him up and take him home, I figured it was taken care of.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

------------------



2008-10-25 3:29 PM
in reply to: #1765749

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
Call 911! That's what they are there for. I am a firefighter/paramedic and if I were called to the scene he would be going to the hospital. The 2 biggest concerns are spinal injury and brain injury. By him being confused that is a classic sign of a head injury. It maybe a concussion or it maybe something more serious like a bleed. The only way to know is to get a CT scan. Also because he is confused he is not reliable enough to tell you whether or not his head, neck, or back hurts. If he cannot tell you that you have to fully immobilize him until he can get an X-ray to make sure nothing is broke. A classic misconception is that if he doesn't become paralized right away he is fine. That is not true. He could have a disc misalligned that hasn't hit to spinal cord yet and then when he gets up and moves it could shift just enough to damage his spinal cord. It is better to be safe than sorry in a case like this and just call 911.
2008-10-25 3:42 PM
in reply to: #1765749

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group

I was in a nearly an identical situation one time, we called the ambulance.  A couple stayed with the bike and the others rode back to the a (only 20-25 minutes away) and brought a car back to get the bike.  Those situations do make you step back and think.  I've seen a few too many such accidents on group rides, but I feel more comfortable w.r.t. cars and visibility when I ride with groups.  Sometimes you wonder if the helmet needs something that goes along the chin.  Always good to have a few dollars, a cell phone, and identification with you. 

I did not really know what to do either, but the group did as a whole.  I wouldn't feel bad, now you know and next time hopefully you (I) can pass along what I have learned helping someone else out.

2008-10-25 4:04 PM
in reply to: #1765749

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
2008-10-25 4:21 PM
in reply to: #1765804

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group

kproudfoot - 2008-10-25 5:04 PM 911

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Mark

2008-10-25 4:34 PM
in reply to: #1765749

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
911. Here's what I always tell my managers and supervisors, it's not worth the risk not to call an ambulance. This is sometimes difficult when the person in question is telling you he or she is ok. We've sent people to the hospital for what turned out to be stomach aches, anxiety attacks, and other non-life threating events. We've also sent people who were having silent heart attacks, and saved one guy's life! I have never heard an EMS tech ever say, "Why did you waste my time on this".

When you want to find something that really works in this country, look no further than the 911 system.



2008-10-25 5:45 PM
in reply to: #1765749

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group

1.5 hours to wait for a ride is way to long.

I agree with others call 911.

When I was in a bad bike crash..head first into caution metal street sign going 24mph. I was awake and talking and sitting up. I knew who was the president and where I was but not that I had 5 kids or my parents were visiting. 

They put me in a neck brace and put me on a stretcher strapped down after having CAT scan and other tests they allowed me to move.

I have no memory of about 2 hours. My husband took pictures of me and the adventure on my request otherwise I won't have a picture or really know anything. Kevin says I sounded like I was drunk the way I was talking.

I share this because I was talking and uprigth but clearly not okay. They did debate sending me to the hospital as I could answer simple questions.

Doctors said I had a quite severe concussion maybe 85 out of 100. 

2008-10-25 5:50 PM
in reply to: #1765792

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Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
rc63413 - 2008-10-25 4:42 PM
  •   Sometimes you wonder if the helmet needs something that goes along the chin./>



  • Yep. Took care of a young guy in the ED a couple weeks ago who lost about half of his teeth in a face first bike crash. I believe mountain bikers wear helmets of this type?

    PS everyone take First Aid/CPR. It's taught at the Red Cross, community colleges, YMCA's etc. And please carry ID with phone numbers of your family or people to notify.

    Edited by BabsVa 2008-10-25 5:51 PM
    2008-10-25 8:09 PM
    in reply to: #1765749

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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
    ok call me whatever but my biggest concern is if you call 911 for me I am not going to like that because I dont have health insurance.  This is a legit concern.  Answer??
    2008-10-25 8:17 PM
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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
    It isn't a legit concern. You can always sign a refusal for the ambulance and not go. There should be no charge for it. Let them check you out and if all is well send them on their way. If you are seriously hurt you need to go no matter what. I understand the concern for the medical bills but you really have no choice but to get checked out if you have a broken bone, head injury, spine injury, or any of the other multitude of problems you could have. Most places don't charge for an ambulance unless you are transported.
    2008-10-25 8:21 PM
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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
    I pray I never get injured Because I will not be able to afford anything. 


    2008-10-25 8:21 PM
    in reply to: #1765992

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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
    benc84 - 2008-10-25 9:09 PM

    ok call me whatever but my biggest concern is if you call 911 for me I am not going to like that because I dont have health insurance.  This is a legit concern.  Answer??


    If you ride in a group, crash and crack a helmet, it is something you will deal with. You do have a right to refuse treatment, but the group consensus should be to call 911 in any case of a suspected head, neck or back injury. If this is a huge concern to you, I would suggest avoiding group rides and stick with riding solo. Of course, if you are unconscious, you have then given your consent for 911.




    2008-10-25 8:44 PM
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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group

    benc84 - 2008-10-25 9:09 PM ok call me whatever but my biggest concern is if you call 911 for me I am not going to like that because I dont have health insurance.  This is a legit concern.  Answer??

    I would still call 9-1-1.  If you choose to refuse treatment, it falls to you.  But I have no way of knowing if you have a bleed starting in your skull as a result of the trauma of the fall, which will gradually increase pressure in your skull, and ultimately force your brainstem down the spinal cord, where the pressure causes you to stop breathing.  But you will have been unconscious for several hours, having grown increasingly confused, incoherent, and likely combative.

    And if you tell me at the outset of a ride (or any other potentially hazardous activity) not to call 9-1-1, I will still ignore this.  Or we won't ride together.  But I do not want to be sharing the responsibility for a friend's death.

     

    2008-10-25 10:24 PM
    in reply to: #1765783

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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group

    moabrunner - 2008-10-25 1:29 PM Call 911! That's what they are there for. I am a firefighter/paramedic and if I were called to the scene he would be going to the hospital. The 2 biggest concerns are spinal injury and brain injury. By him being confused that is a classic sign of a head injury. It maybe a concussion or it maybe something more serious like a bleed. The only way to know is to get a CT scan. Also because he is confused he is not reliable enough to tell you whether or not his head, neck, or back hurts. If he cannot tell you that you have to fully immobilize him until he can get an X-ray to make sure nothing is broke. A classic misconception is that if he doesn't become paralized right away he is fine. That is not true. He could have a disc misalligned that hasn't hit to spinal cord yet and then when he gets up and moves it could shift just enough to damage his spinal cord. It is better to be safe than sorry in a case like this and just call 911.

    Exactly correct!

    As a former combat medic with the US Army, I can say for sure that Moanbruner knows what he is talking about. 

    2008-10-25 10:26 PM
    in reply to: #1765749

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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
    i had that same thought.. because i had a bad wreck on a solo ride, no id on me.. lucky no major injuries.

    call 911, to be safe..

    when i start group riding again.. i will ask riders for emergency contacts in case of an accident. store that information beside by my cell phone in my bento bag..
    2008-10-26 6:10 PM
    in reply to: #1765749

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    Subject: RE: bicycle accident in a group
    When we had a similar accident occur in our little group, 911 actually took my friend's bike with them in the ambulance!  They wheeled my friend and her bike right into the ER.  I couldn't believe how nice they were.  They let her keep the bike with her until I rode home and drove to the hospital in my car to pick it up.  I have found paramedics to be the most professional and caring group of people in the medical community.  I also have to give kudos to the ER for letting them leave the bike there.


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