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2009-02-06 6:36 AM

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Subject: I don't like cramming for tests

With Augusta HIM in Sept and IMAZ in Nov, I got to thinking I am a bit nutso already,but I don't like cramming for anything, especially endurance events. I am hoping that lots of hard work now will pay off by making the later summer and fall training less abusive. I may be wrong, but I don't want to suffer unduly for lack of preparation.

 I also have friends who say I will burnout, and others who talk of the misery/joy of the whole HIM/IM training experience. I don't like the sound of the misery/joy thing as I want stable routine without too much of a spike(s) in training. My whole goal has been to "finish" not to win.

I guess I am writing because there are principals of periodization, and there are other "experts" that argue a more linear, consistent annual approach to training. Whats your take on the linear v periodization take? They almost seem at odds with each other.

 



2009-02-06 6:52 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests

I have wondered the same thing about periodization-v-linear.  I am going to be interested in the responses from those who know.

 

Steve

2009-02-06 6:57 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests

I think there are benefits to either method.  For base-building, a linear method might have better results.  However, I think that even in a linear plan, you still have "down" or "cutback" weeks.  You can't keep building your mileage forever or you'll (a) run out of hours in the day, or (b) injure yourself.

I would recommend listening to the www.tri-talk.com podcast episodes dealing with periodization.  They get a little technical at the end but I think the gist is that you need to take time to allow for your body to recover and rebuild after you have increased your load (whether in duration or intensity) a certain amount.  The amount of load you can take before recovery will vary depending on your body, your fitness, and your propensity for injury.  For all www.tri-talk.com listeners, David Warden is now back on-air and will be doing monthly episodes in 2009. 

In my experiment of one, I did not take enough cut-back weeks last year while training for SC HIM and my first marathon.  I did increase my mileage very slowly and steadily and took shorter mileage "cut-back" weeks.  But it was not enough and I paid the price with a stress fracture. 

I can't comment on IM training, but I enjoyed every bit of the HIM training.  I don't recall any misery or abuse.  I didn't win or anything, but I don't think HIM training has to be terribly difficult.  IM is probably different though b/c it's double the mileage.

2009-02-06 7:13 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
phatknot - 2009-02-06 7:36 AM

With Augusta HIM in Sept and IMAZ in Nov, I got to thinking I am a bit nutso already,but I don't like cramming for anything, especially endurance events. I am hoping that lots of hard work now will pay off by making the later summer and fall training less abusive. I may be wrong, but I don't want to suffer unduly for lack of preparation.

 I also have friends who say I will burnout, and others who talk of the misery/joy of the whole HIM/IM training experience. I don't like the sound of the misery/joy thing as I want stable routine without too much of a spike(s) in training. My whole goal has been to "finish" not to win.

I guess I am writing because there are principals of periodization, and there are other "experts" that argue a more linear, consistent annual approach to training. Whats your take on the linear v periodization take? They almost seem at odds with each other.

 



The definition of periodized training is moving from general to specific (as you progress through the season and get closer to your goal race). So even with a consistent training plan your training can still be periodized. In my own training my training volume doesn't vary too much during the year but the types of workouts and the training load does.
2009-02-06 7:32 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
That's good to define periodization more clearly. The problem or question I suppose is with consistent volume over time. Does that, even with shifting loads per needs and reduction weeks/days, prevent the need for cramming, while avoiding burnout? Some of us old folks (haha) are not sure what our bodies (or minds) can handle.
2009-02-06 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests

This is an interesting point that you bring up. First off to be perfectly clear (not necessarily to you, but to someone else not as familiar with training who might read this) you cannot "cram" for an endurance event. Your body needs time to adapt and absorb the training and recovery in order to progress.

As far as periodization vs a linear approach: It has been my experience as a coach and athlete that a periodized approach works best for most athletes. A true linear approach where basically you stair step up over a period of time never truely allows for overload and adaptation. It also gets very mundane and you eventually get to a point of dimishing returns.

Following a periodized schedule allows you to vary your training based on upcoming races or checkpoints during your season. It also allows you to vary your training to stress different substrates such as speed, endurance, power, technique, etc.

Doing Augusta and IMAZ isn't a nutty schedule as long as you understand that Augusta should be used as a checkpoint along the way during your IM prep. Another word of advice, don't think of yourself as "training for IMAZ" right now. Instead focus on an intermediate goal that you can work toward and then go into your "I'm training for IMAZ" mindset around July or August. 

 



2009-02-06 9:30 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests

Both Jeremy and Brett are correct.  You have to absorb your training as you go along.  Proper periodization accomplishes this.  What some coaches are going away from, myself included, are the base, build, etc model of periodization.

Instead, it's more of a general to specific model.  Jeremy alluded to it.  You build your general fitness and as races get closer, you change your specific training to tailor to it.  The general phase will include tempo, base, etc work as well.  So just because it's winter doesn't mean you'll be in Z1 all day long.

Heed Brett's advice of not looking at IM AZ right now.  It's a long way off.  Focus on the close stuff so you don't go bonkers.

2009-02-06 10:51 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
Rocket Man - 2009-02-06 10:01 AM

As far as periodization vs a linear approach: It has been my experience as a coach and athlete that a periodized approach works best for most athletes. A true linear approach where basically you stair step up over a period of time never truely allows for overload and adaptation. It also gets very mundane and you eventually get to a point of dimishing returns.



After spending 2+ years being coached by someone using the standard (base, build etc.)approach and seeing virtually no improvement, I looked for a coach with very very different coaching practices. The one thing that stood out most from talking to one new prospective coach was when he said "the training load almost never decreases, it either increases or remains the same." So I'd say that probably classifies as what you call a "linear approach". After working with him for 5 months I went from a 4:28 HIM PR to a 4:06 HIM PR. So to say an approach like that doesn't allow for adaptation, is not entirely correct. Also, I've been with this coach for 2 years now and the training isn't so boring.

Given the definition of periodization I gave and Dan further clarified, a "linear approach" to training can be periodized. They are not mutually exclusive.


2009-02-06 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
jsipos - 2009-02-06 11:51 AM
Rocket Man - 2009-02-06 10:01 AM

As far as periodization vs a linear approach: It has been my experience as a coach and athlete that a periodized approach works best for most athletes. A true linear approach where basically you stair step up over a period of time never truely allows for overload and adaptation. It also gets very mundane and you eventually get to a point of dimishing returns.

After spending 2+ years being coached by someone using the standard (base, build etc.)approach and seeing virtually no improvement, I looked for a coach with very very different coaching practices. The one thing that stood out most from talking to one new prospective coach was when he said "the training load almost never decreases, it either increases or remains the same." So I'd say that probably classifies as what you call a "linear approach". After working with him for 5 months I went from a 4:28 HIM PR to a 4:06 HIM PR. So to say an approach like that doesn't allow for adaptation, is not entirely correct. Also, I've been with this coach for 2 years now and the training isn't so boring. Given the definition of periodization I gave and Dan further clarified, a "linear approach" to training can be periodized. They are not mutually exclusive.

 Po-tay-to or po-tah-to call it what you will, we are basically saying the same thing.

You have to prepare the body to accept load, increase load, overload, and recovery in order to cause physiological adaptation.

4:28 to 4:06....Obama  needs to enact a "Speed Tax" where some of you fast guys have to give those of us that are "speed challenged" some of your excess speed. Call it the redistribution of speed act.

2009-02-06 11:57 AM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests

"You have to prepare the body to accept load, increase load, overload, and recovery in order to cause physiological adaptation." and all the while carefully watching out for signs of mental burnout and/or physical breakdown, I might add.

From my vantage, I see the overarching goal of a late season HIM/IM pairing as potentially leading to more problems both mentally and physically. Good points guys. However, the fear/respect for those events will never go away until you do them....Surprised

2009-02-06 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
phatknot - 2009-02-06 12:57 PM

From my vantage, I see the overarching goal of a late season HIM/IM pairing as potentially leading to more problems both mentally and physically. Good points guys. However, the fear/respect for those events will never go away until you do them....Surprised

That sir...is why Shanks is only letting you see your training plan in short bursts.  :P  Focus on the now and let your coach focus on the big picture.  Too much stress in February for a Nov race makes your brain go numb.  Or so I hear...



2009-02-06 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
haha . i cant understand what you are sayingSmile......my brain is numb but not just from this stuff.
2009-02-06 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: I don't like cramming for tests
Rocket Man - 2009-02-06 12:45 PM
4:28 to 4:06....Obama  needs to enact a "Speed Tax" where some of you fast guys have to give those of us that are "speed challenged" some of your excess speed. Call it the redistribution of speed act.



ha ha ha ha ha

Now, that is funny.

"Redistribution of speed act"
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