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2009-03-04 10:25 AM

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Champion
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Chicago
Subject: Mid Major Bubble Teams
As a Creighton fan, I'm geeked that the Jays have won 10 in a row to finish the regular season 25-6. If they win a couple in the Mo Valley Conference tourney or the whole shebang, they're in. If they don't, they're out. Ahhh gotta love livin' and dyin' game-to-game.

Butler's in. Gonzaga's in. Looks like Davidson, Siena, Utah State and a few others are livin' on the edge. Better to see some of these teams than the crap teams from the major conferences.


2009-03-04 10:33 AM
in reply to: #1996480

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Sneaky Slow
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Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
I graduated from Siena... for us, I am pretty sure that if we don't win the MAAC tournament, we are NIT-bound.  Sucks that lots of the mid-major teams get the shaft at the expense of teams like Maryland, Kentucky, who are having decidedly mediocre years.
2009-03-04 10:51 AM
in reply to: #1996480

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Master
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Folsom (Sacramento), CA
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams

I have the same issue with mid majors in college basketball as I do in college football. How can you accurately judge a team that plays against a lower caliber of competition for most of the season. Hands down, the day to day grind of playing in a big six league is far more difficult than playing in a mid major. The question is, how many more losses does that equate to?

I'm not saying that some of these schools can't compete, because Memphis has proved that during the last fews years. But how well would a school like UCLA or Wake Forest do if they got to spend half their conference games resting their stars? I see the same thing in college football. When a team like Boise State only has 1 BCS caliber team on their schedule, it is a lot easier to make it through the season. Its like comparing apples to oranges.

2009-03-04 10:57 AM
in reply to: #1996543

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2009-03-04 11:14 AM
in reply to: #1996543

Sneaky Slow
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Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
uclamatt2007 - 2009-03-04 11:51 AM

I have the same issue with mid majors in college basketball as I do in college football. How can you accurately judge a team that plays against a lower caliber of competition for most of the season. Hands down, the day to day grind of playing in a big six league is far more difficult than playing in a mid major. The question is, how many more losses does that equate to?

I'm not saying that some of these schools can't compete, because Memphis has proved that during the last fews years. But how well would a school like UCLA or Wake Forest do if they got to spend half their conference games resting their stars? I see the same thing in college football. When a team like Boise State only has 1 BCS caliber team on their schedule, it is a lot easier to make it through the season. Its like comparing apples to oranges.

All I know, is that Siena kicked Vanderbilt's rear end by 20 last year in the NCAAs, and they have all 5 starters back.  And they lost at Pitt by 12 and at Kansas by 7.  So they can compete.  There's a reason the first two days of the NCAA tournament is among the most fun days in sports... and news flash... it's not because of a 18-11 (8-8) team from a power conference.



Edited by newleaf 2009-03-04 11:14 AM
2009-03-04 11:19 AM
in reply to: #1996543

Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
uclamatt2007 - 2009-03-04 10:51 AM

I have the same issue with mid majors in college basketball as I do in college football. How can you accurately judge a team that plays against a lower caliber of competition for most of the season. Hands down, the day to day grind of playing in a big six league is far more difficult than playing in a mid major. The question is, how many more losses does that equate to?

I'm not saying that some of these schools can't compete, because Memphis has proved that during the last fews years. But how well would a school like UCLA or Wake Forest do if they got to spend half their conference games resting their stars? I see the same thing in college football. When a team like Boise State only has 1 BCS caliber team on their schedule, it is a lot easier to make it through the season. Its like comparing apples to oranges.



I would agree that the big conference schools definitely have a tougher schedule than the mid-majors. I do question the wisdom of putting in (I'll use Big XII since that's what I know) a Kansas State or a Nebraska over a Creighton or Davidson. I think the top-tier mid-majors have a better chance to win in the dance than some of the lower-tier top division schools out there. Plus it's just more fun to watch small schools play soemtimes rather than another riveting North Carolina blowout of UCLA or Ohio State.

If these schools haven't a chance of winning in the tourney, why even have such a big D-1 field in basketball? Why not just make a 1A and 1-AA format like they have in football?

And don't forget about Boise State's dismantling of Oklahoma in '07. I wanted OU to win that game to prove teams like BSU were BS but they proved they belonged.


2009-03-04 11:20 AM
in reply to: #1996614

Elite
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Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams

Stop beating up my Terps.  We've proven this YEAR we can hang with the bigger teams (example, NC). Just not Duke at home. 


 

2009-03-04 11:25 AM
in reply to: #1996636

Sneaky Slow
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Loudoun County, VA
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
turtlegirl - 2009-03-04 12:20 PM

Stop beating up my Terps.  We've proven this YEAR we can hang with the bigger teams (example, NC). Just not Duke at home. 

Meh.  The Terps already have a thread.  

Oh, and they can't hang with Morgan State, either.

2009-03-04 11:54 AM
in reply to: #1996614

Master
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
newleaf - 2009-03-04 11:14 AM
uclamatt2007 - 2009-03-04 11:51 AM

I have the same issue with mid majors in college basketball as I do in college football. How can you accurately judge a team that plays against a lower caliber of competition for most of the season. Hands down, the day to day grind of playing in a big six league is far more difficult than playing in a mid major. The question is, how many more losses does that equate to?

I'm not saying that some of these schools can't compete, because Memphis has proved that during the last fews years. But how well would a school like UCLA or Wake Forest do if they got to spend half their conference games resting their stars? I see the same thing in college football. When a team like Boise State only has 1 BCS caliber team on their schedule, it is a lot easier to make it through the season. Its like comparing apples to oranges.

All I know, is that Siena kicked Vanderbilt's rear end by 20 last year in the NCAAs, and they have all 5 starters back.  And they lost at Pitt by 12 and at Kansas by 7.  So they can compete.  There's a reason the first two days of the NCAA tournament is among the most fun days in sports... and news flash... it's not because of a 18-11 (8-8) team from a power conference.

As a Vanderbilt alum, I just wanted to let you know that I hate you.  

In all seriousness,  the "mid-majors" are very hit or miss.  Siena embarresed my 'Dores last year, but then lost to a mediocre 'Nova.  It's one of those situations where, if you were to play that game 10 times, I'd bet Vandy wins 8.  But there is absolutely no doubt that Siena wanted it more, and was more pumped to be there.  This seems to happen a lot with the mid-majors, heck, Belmont almost beat Duke last year.  But for every mid-major that pulls a big upset, there are 3 or 4 who don't. 

So the real question becomes, for the at-large bids, do we want to reward the "best" teams, e.g., the teams that are on the bubble with high RPIs and SOS and are most likely in a BCS conference, or do we want to take a chance on a mid-major and hope for exciting basketball.  It seems to me that the at-large teams used to be swayed toward the former choice, but in recent years have moved to the latter.  

Ultimately, I'm not really sure it matters.  In terms of winning the tourney, there's usually only 5 to 10 teams with a legit shot anyway.  

P.S.  Maryland is under 500 in the ACC, and does NOT belong in the tourney.  

2009-03-04 2:34 PM
in reply to: #1996480

Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
I agree. These mid-majors are good for one or, at tops, two games. Unless you get a Memphis in there or a Gonzaga to make it to the Elite Eight. Still, like I said, I'd rather see Creighton in there rather than Nebraska, and I'm a fan of both teams.

I think Creighton will win at least one game this year. If they make it past Wichita State, which beat them earlier this year. Now THAT was embarrassing, especially after I talked all that smack to LisaC about it. And sadly, she was there. The mockage continues to this day.
2009-03-04 2:45 PM
in reply to: #1997292

Atlanta, Georgia
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams

mr2tony - 2009-03-04 2:34 PM I agree. These mid-majors are good for one or, at tops, two games. Unless you get a Memphis in there or a Gonzaga to make it to the Elite Eight. Still, like I said, I'd rather see Creighton in there rather than Nebraska, and I'm a fan of both teams. I think Creighton will win at least one game this year. If they make it past Wichita State, which beat them earlier this year. Now THAT was embarrassing, especially after I talked all that smack to LisaC about it. And sadly, she was there. The mockage continues to this day.

I love it when we beat Creighton. The scoreboard. Let me show it to you. haahaa!
Wichita State has to play in the "play in" game Thursday night to even GET to their conference tourney. Suckage.

 



2009-03-04 2:54 PM
in reply to: #1996480

Master
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Folsom (Sacramento), CA
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
My problem with Chreighton this year is that they just haven't played anyone. According to the Sagarin ratings, which i think are more accurate than RPI, they are ranked 52nd. They haven't played a single team ranked in the top 50. If you look at the RPI, they have one win over a Top 50 team. I just dont think they have enough to get in short of wimming their tourney. Maybe 2 wins will do it, but I just dont see it.
2009-03-04 3:04 PM
in reply to: #1996480

Master
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Long Island, NY
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams

I have to admit, this year I don't give a rats Ptooey who's playing who or where because I will be watching all Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games poolside at The Mirage in Sin City with 6 buddies from college. 

But being in the heart of Big East country, I sometimes question the wisdom of their schoolyard brawling style of play since it often leads to foul trouble in NCAA tourney games, as the BE refs fully embrace the "No Blood, No Foul" rule.

Back to OP: There seems to be more of a movement to level the playing field with the RPI rankings, but SOS usually ends up hurting Mid-majors, while I think unduly rewarding middle to bottom feeders of Major conferences.  But I have to believe with 25 wins, Creighton will snag an at-large.  Christ, I think Siena was a 13 seed last year (NewLeaf can verify).



Edited by 1st Timer in NY 2009-03-04 3:05 PM
2009-03-04 3:12 PM
in reply to: #1997292

Sneaky Slow
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Loudoun County, VA
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams

mr2tony - 2009-03-04 3:34 PM I agree. These mid-majors are good for one or, at tops, two games. Unless you get a Memphis in there or a Gonzaga to make it to the Elite Eight.

Or a George Mason to make it to the Final 4, or a Davidson to make it to the Elite 8... etc., etc.... 

2009-03-04 5:11 PM
in reply to: #1996480

90 miles south of Titletown, USA
Subject: RE: Mid Major Bubble Teams
IMO, conferences like the MVC and MAC (the 2 strongest mid-majors from year-to-year) often get screwed. Unfortunately, they can't get the big conferences to come their house because of money and very little to gain for the big schools so their chance to prove themselves and their strength of schedule suffers, greatly. The best moments of the tourney are produced by teams like VCU, Kent St., Wichita St., Valpo, etc. Are they going to win a national championship? No. But are they more fun to watch and a better story than teams like Minnesota or Michigan? Yes.

This comes from a big Wisconsin fan who understands that watching Bucky play is worse than a root canal...offensively challenged.

No offense to any Gopher or Wolverine fans (i'm not sure the UW belongs in the tourney, either, I just think they'll be there), but the Big Ten is a shining example of a conference that produces tourney teams that, if better than top mid-majors, are better by a razor-thin margin...there is no way you can convince me that Wisconsin is better than Creighton, for instance. The UW lost to Iowa for crying out loud.
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