General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Alcohol Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2009-04-30 1:39 PM

User image

Extreme Veteran
547
50025
Atlanta
Subject: Alcohol

We all know alcohol is empty calories, but if you know ahead of time that you're going to be drinking, and you can even bring whatever you want, what's the best choice?  Liquor, light beer, wine?  As someone who is trying to keep carbs down, I'm probably going to go with the liquor (obvioulsy it also depends on what you mix with it, but lets assume that it's something like soda water).  I'd just like to see if anyone has any specific thoughts on the subject.  And I'm interesting to see everyone's reasoning behind their opinions.



2009-04-30 2:02 PM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Alcohol
Well if you're talking about pure calorie reasoning then liquor is likely your best bet.  But if you talk about health benefits overall that might be outweighed by the antioxidants in red wine. 

I'm looking forward to hot summer days and making white wine spritzers.  It's a good way to have a bit of wine taste without the full amount of calories. 
2009-04-30 2:27 PM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Alcohol
Based on calories alone, light liquors like gin or vodka average about 60 calories per ounce (not including mixer). Wine is about 150 calories per 6-ounces. Regular beer is about 150 calories per 12-ounces. Light beer is around 110 calories per 12-ounces.

I tend to stick to the light liquors and add a no-calorie mixer like sugar free redbull, or diet tonic. The calories will exponentially increase if you start adding mixers like sweet and sour, margarita mix, tonic, or juice.
But I love wine, and have no problem splitting a bottle for a special occasion.

Ooh lookie what I found:

Beer Calories
· Beer 12 fl. oz. 146
· Light Beer 12 fl. oz. 100
· Hard Cider 12 fl. oz. 144

Wine Calories
· Champagne 4 fl. oz. 90
· Dry Sherry 2 fl. oz. 84
· Red Table 3 ½ fl. oz. 74
· Rosé Table 3 ½ fl. oz. 73
· White Table 3 ½ fl. oz. 70
· Dry Vermouth 1 fl. oz. 33
· Sweet Vermouth 1 fl. oz. 44

Spirits Calories
· Gin, Rum, Vodka, Whiskey Amount Calories
· 80 Proof 1 ½ fl. oz. 96
· 86 Proof 1 ½ fl. oz. 104
· 90 Proof 1 ½ fl. oz. 109
· 94 Proof 1 ½ fl. oz. 115
· 100 Proof 1 ½ fl. oz. 123

Liqueur Calories
· Brandy, Cognac 1 ½ fl. oz. 75
· Coffee Liqueur (Kahlua) 1 ½ fl. oz. 176
· Crème de Menthe 1 ½ fl. oz. 186
· Curaçao ½ fl. oz. 60

Mixers Calories
· Club soda 12 fl. oz. 0
· Cola 12 fl. oz. 144
· Cranberry Juice 3 fl. oz. 54
· Diet Cola 12 fl. oz. 0
· Fresh Lemon Juice 1 fl. oz. 8
· Fresh Lime Juice 1 fl. oz. 8
· Fresh Orange Juice 2 fl. oz. 28
· Ginger Ale 12 fl. oz. 124
· Heavy Cream 1 tbs. 53
· Pineapple Juice, Unsweetened 2 fl. oz. 34
· Tomato Juice 2 fl. oz. 12
· Tonic Water 12 fl. oz. 113
2009-04-30 3:38 PM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Veteran
344
10010010025
Traverse City, MI
Subject: RE: Alcohol
Hennessy on the rocks - for all the reasons supplemented above. Although I can always go wrong with a couple rich Belgian ales or dark, thick stouts. Alcoholic beverages are treats, so I drink what sounds good and appropriate at the time.

When mixing cocktails, one aspect I have noticed is the power of acidity. For instance, I am hesitant on mixing a lot colas, diet or not. So for a rum and coke, Ill choose a smoother, premium rum, mix with a splash a coke, but go heavy on the acidity with the lime juice. It helps masks the alcohol without the need for a lot mixer. Same goes with gin - the more lime, the seemingly less punch. Also buying smoother, more expensive liquors makes this idea much more plausible.
Of course it certainly depends on your palate and preferences. Experiment, and as implied, have fun!
2009-05-01 4:58 AM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Expert
925
50010010010010025
Timmins, ON. Canada
Subject: RE: Alcohol
Pint of Guinness - 198 calories
Pint of OJ - 220 Calories

My breakfast beverage selection just got a lot easier.
2009-05-08 1:38 AM
in reply to: #2122883

User image

Regular
193
100252525
Cary, NC
Subject: RE: Alcohol
justinfss - 2009-05-01 5:58 AM Pint of Guinness - 198 calories Pint of OJ - 220 Calories My breakfast beverage selection just got a lot easier.


nice.  i think i may go and get one right now......


2009-05-10 5:03 PM
in reply to: #2122883

User image

Expert
1058
10002525
Cambridge
Subject: RE: Alcohol
justinfss - 2009-05-01 10:58 AM Pint of Guinness - 198 calories Pint of OJ - 220 Calories My breakfast beverage selection just got a lot easier.

brilliant
2009-05-10 5:44 PM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Veteran
299
100100252525
Subject: RE: Alcohol
here is the none scientific version...simple:
body processes these beverages as fat not carbs and also BAD for recovery.
2009-05-10 6:44 PM
in reply to: #2141847

User image

Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Alcohol
MQsack - 2009-05-10 4:44 PM here is the none scientific version...simple: body processes these beverages as fat not carbs and also BAD for recovery.


Huh?  I've never heard this.  Sources? 
2009-05-10 9:47 PM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Champion
8936
50002000100050010010010010025
Subject: RE: Alcohol

The body processes alcohol as....ummm.....alcohol.

2009-05-11 12:39 AM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Veteran
299
100100252525
Subject: RE: Alcohol
in a biochem class and have read it before in an article in racecenter a few years back too. Its because of its compostion. I will try and find this, but ask any good sports nutrition dietian. I didnt believe it but its true have asked quite a few. But in general most people dont think its bad for training, but people know its called intoxication, hmm toxic..


2009-05-11 8:14 AM
in reply to: #2142339

User image

Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Alcohol
MQsack - 2009-05-10 11:39 PM in a biochem class and have read it before in an article in racecenter a few years back too. Its because of its compostion. I will try and find this, but ask any good sports nutrition dietian. I didnt believe it but its true have asked quite a few. But in general most people dont think its bad for training, but people know its called intoxication, hmm toxic..


Okay, I'm not sure I believe this.  Actually check that, I don't believe it until I see some scientific studies regarding it BUT either way fat isn't always a bad thing in your diet so just because something might be metabolized as fat doesn't necessarily make it a horrid thing. 

But I'm with Derek, I think alcohol is metabolized as alcohol.  Everything in moderation. 
2009-05-11 11:00 AM
in reply to: #2142227

User image

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Alcohol
DerekL - 2009-05-10 9:47 PM

The body processes alcohol as....ummm.....alcohol.



He speaks the truth.
Your body processes sources of energy in this order: alcohol, carbs, fat. Which is why those following "low carb" diets (and don't drink alcohol) lose fat from their body fairly unhealthily quicky. It's the only source of...anything in their body.
 
2009-05-12 12:06 AM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Veteran
299
100100252525
Subject: RE: Alcohol
" I think alcohol is metabolized as alcohol" not to be mean, but agreeing with this comment shows that you if you believe this statement you dont understand the basic chem in the body. The alchohol is not exactly metabolized in the traditional sense just like caffiene, they both can cross the blood brain barrier so how they work in your body is different than say anything else. this is why you feel a buzz from a drink. You can be skeptics all ya want, but understand the basics first it will help when the data is told. The problem with the data is there is probably studies proving all sorts of stuff, does anyone know how to debunk..thats the hard part. What I am saying is that learning the basics will help you understand the body and the chemistry that is going on and you wont have to believe everything you read. There is alot out there on sucrolose, most very bad but still being used..
2009-05-12 6:45 AM
in reply to: #2144937

User image

Champion
8936
50002000100050010010010010025
Subject: RE: Alcohol

MQsack - 2009-05-12 12:06 AM " I think alcohol is metabolized as alcohol" not to be mean, but agreeing with this comment shows that you if you believe this statement you dont understand the basic chem in the body. The alchohol is not exactly metabolized in the traditional sense just like caffiene, they both can cross the blood brain barrier so how they work in your body is different than say anything else. this is why you feel a buzz from a drink. You can be skeptics all ya want, but understand the basics first it will help when the data is told. The problem with the data is there is probably studies proving all sorts of stuff, does anyone know how to debunk..thats the hard part. What I am saying is that learning the basics will help you understand the body and the chemistry that is going on and you wont have to believe everything you read. There is alot out there on sucrolose, most very bad but still being used..

I'm quite aware of the basics of biochemistry.  What you said is simply false, and you've provided nothing to debunk.  This isn't about studies or absorption or anything else that you just posted.  It's about a well defined mechanism of metabolism that is available in any physiology or biochemistry textbook.  

2009-05-12 7:35 AM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Alcohol
I cannot cite the article off hand, but I believe that several years ago I read the following...
Metabolizing alcohol competes (and wins) with some of the same resources as metabolizing fat.
In this study, the body pretty much holds off on fat metabolism until the alcohol is metabolized.

sorry for the lack of specificity, but that was the gist (sp?) (never used that in written form)...


2009-05-12 8:09 AM
in reply to: #2144937

User image

Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Alcohol
MQsack - 2009-05-11 11:06 PM " I think alcohol is metabolized as alcohol" not to be mean, but agreeing with this comment shows that you if you believe this statement you dont understand the basic chem in the body. The alchohol is not exactly metabolized in the traditional sense just like caffiene, they both can cross the blood brain barrier so how they work in your body is different than say anything else. this is why you feel a buzz from a drink. You can be skeptics all ya want, but understand the basics first it will help when the data is told. The problem with the data is there is probably studies proving all sorts of stuff, does anyone know how to debunk..thats the hard part. What I am saying is that learning the basics will help you understand the body and the chemistry that is going on and you wont have to believe everything you read. There is alot out there on sucrolose, most very bad but still being used..


Well, you just proved yourself wrong.  You say it's metabolized as fat earlier in this thread and now you say it isn't metabolized.  Sounds to me like your dancing around here.   Personally, I evaluate what I read and decide whether to believe it.  You are putting yourself solidly in the "don't believe category" since your posts contradict themselves and are barely comprehensible. 
2009-05-12 9:37 AM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Alcohol
I have seen the same non-scientific article word-for-word on the web.
Even though it is suspect, it is pretty plain English, to the point, albeit over-simplified.

Below, I have added some references that may make the more scientifically inclined happier.
I apologize for the FRAT!

Effects of Alcohol on Fat Metabolism
The main problem with alcohol is not the number of calories it contains but
rather the effect is has on fat metabolism. A recent study, for example, has
shown that even small amounts of alcohol have a large impact on fat
metabolism.
In this study, eight men were given two drinks of vodka and lemonade separated
by 30 minutes. Each drink contained just less than 90 calories. Fat metabolism
was measured before and after consumption of the drink.
For several hours after drinking the vodka, whole body lipid oxidation (a
measure of how much fat your body is burning) dropped by 73%.
The reason why alcohol has this dramatic effect on fat metabolism has to do with
the way alcohol is handled in the body. When alcohol is consumed, it readily
passes from the stomach and intestines into the blood and goes to the liver. In
the liver, an enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenate mediates the conversion of
alcohol to acetaldehyde.
Acetaldehyde is rapidly converted to acetate by other enzymes. So rather than
getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into acetate, the
amount of acetate formed is dose dependant on the amount of alcohol
consumed. For example, blood levels of acetate after drinking the vodka were
2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the
brakes on fat loss.
The type of fuel your body uses is dictated to some extent by availability. By
severely limiting your carb intake your body is forced to rev up its fat burning
machinery, so that you become fat adapted, and increase the use of protein for
some of the functions, such as anaplerosis, that carbs are usually heavily
involved in.
In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it, and after a time
becomes adapted to the macro nutrient intake. Unfortunately when acetate levels
rise, your body burns the acetate preferentially, since acetate is basically the
same product of beta oxidation of fatty acids and glycolysis (glucose to pyruvate
to acetate), but it doesn't require the metabolic work to produce.
So the body simply burns the acetate first, and with the rapid rise seen with
alcohol intake, basically pushes fat oxidation out of the metabolic equation.
Because acetate is readily formed from alcohol it can be worse than taking in
carbs as far as affecting fat metabolism. That's because glucose has to be
sequentially metabolized through various steps to form acetate while acetate is
formed from alcohol in just a few steps.
Also alcohol, because it can be considered part way between carbs and fats, has
more calories than carbs. That's why even the low carb beers contain less than
100 calories even though they only have about 2.5 grams of carbs and .5 grams
of protein. While the carbs and protein only make up 12 calories, the 12 grams of
alcohol make up the remaining 80 or so calories.
• 9 calories per gram of FAT
• 4 calories per gram of PROTEIN
• 4 calories per gram of CARBOHYDRATE
• 7 calories per gram of ALCOHOL
Alcoholic beverages contain alcohol, some or no carbs and calories but not much
else.
In summary, it's important to realize that even the odd drink or two can be
counter productive in the low carb phase of dieting for fat loss and
especially so in the induction stage of a new dieting plan.



ARTICLE 2 w/References

Why alcohol calories are more important than you think...

Successful weight loss is all about oxidizing (or burning), more calories than you eat. When they go on a diet, many people choose low-calorie alcoholic drinks, mainly because they contain fewer alcohol calories than their regular counterparts.

However, drinking too much has a far more damaging effect than you can predict simply by looking at the number of alcohol calories in a drink. Not only does it reduce the number of fat calories you burn, alcohol can increase your appetite and lower your testosterone levels for up to 24 hours after you finish drinking.

Alcohol calories

According to conventional wisdom, the infamous "beer belly" is caused by excess alcohol calories being stored as fat. Yet, less than five percent of the alcohol calories you drink are turned into fat. Rather, the main effect of alcohol is to reduce the amount of fat your body burns for energy.

Some evidence for this comes from research carried in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition [4]. Eight men were given two drinks of vodka and sugar-free lemonade separated by 30 minutes. Each drink contained just under 90 calories. Fat metabolism was measured before and after consumption of the drink. For several hours after drinking the vodka, whole body lipid oxidation (a measure of how much fat your body is burning) dropped by a massive 73%.

 

Rather than getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into a substance called acetate. In fact, blood levels of acetate after drinking the vodka were 2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the brakes on fat loss.

A car engine typically uses only one source of fuel. Your body, on the other hand, draws from a number of different energy sources, such as carbohydrate, fat, and protein. To a certain extent, the source of fuel your body uses is dictated by its availability.

In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it. Consequently, when acetate levels rise, your body simply burns more acetate, and less fat. In essence, acetate pushes fat to the back of the queue.

So, to summarize and review, here's what happens to fat metabolism after the odd drink or two.

. A small portion of the alcohol is converted into fat.

. Your liver then converts most of the alcohol into acetate.

. The acetate is then released into your bloodstream, and replaces fat as a source of fuel.

The way your body responds to alcohol is very similar to the way it deals with excess carbohydrate. Although carbohydrate can be converted directly into fat, one of the main effects of overfeeding with carbohydrate is that it simply replaces fat as a source of energy. That's why any type of diet, whether it's high-fat, high-protein, or high-carbohydrate, can lead to a gain in weight.

Appetite

The combination of alcohol and a high-calorie meal is especially fattening, mainly because alcohol acts as a potent appetizer. A Canadian study shows that an aperitif (an alcoholic drink taken before a meal to increase the appetite) increased calorie intake to a greater extent than a carbohydrate-based drink [5].

Researchers from Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University report similar results [8]. When a group of men was given a meal and allowed to eat as much as they wanted, they ate more when the meal was served with beer or wine rather than a soft drink.

Not only does too much alcohol put the brakes on fat loss, it's also one of the most effective ways to slash your testosterone levels. Just a single bout of heavy drinking raises levels of the muscle-wasting hormone cortisol and increases the breakdown of testosterone for up to 24 hours [6]. The damaging effects of alcohol on testosterone are made even worse when you exercise before drinking [1].

The effect of alcohol on testosterone could be one reason that people who drink a lot carry less muscle. In fact, a 1993 study shows that alcoholic men have bigger waists and smaller muscles than teetotalers [2].

This doesn't mean you need to avoid alcohol completely.

A recent study, published in the November 2004 issue of the International Journal of Obesity, compared the effect of two different diets over a three-month period [7]. Both diets contained 1500 calories daily, one with 150 calories from white wine and one with 150 calories from grape juice.

Weight loss in the grape juice group and white wine group was 8.3 pounds and 10.4 pounds, respectively.

So, what's the bottom line?

Although an alcohol-rich meal does increase your metabolic rate, it also suppresses the number of fat calories your body burns for energy — far more so than meals rich in protein, carbohydrate, or fat [3]. While the odd drink now and again isn't going to hurt, the bottom line is that alcohol and a leaner, stronger body just doesn't mix.


1. Heikkonen, E., Ylikahri, R., Roine, R., Valimaki, M., Harkonen, M., & Salaspuro, M. (1996). The combined effect of alcohol and physical exercise on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and cortisol in males. Alcoholism, Clinical and Experimental Research, 20, 711-716
2. Kvist, H., Hallgren, P., Jonsson, L., Pettersson, P., Sjoberg, C., Sjostrom, L., & Bjorntorp, P. (1993). Distribution of adipose tissue and muscle mass in alcoholic men. Metabolism, 42, 569-573
3. Raben A, Agerholm-Larsen L, Flint A, Holst JJ, Astrup A. (2003). Meals with similar energy densities but rich in protein, fat, carbohydrate, or alcohol have different effects on energy expenditure and substrate metabolism but not on appetite and energy intake. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 77, 91-100
4. Siler, S.Q., Neese, R.A., & Hellerstein, M.K. (1999). De novo lipogenesis, lipid kinetics, and whole-body lipid balances in humans after acute alcohol consumption. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 70, 928-936
5. Tremblay, A., & St-Pierre, S. (1996). The hyperphagic effect of a high-fat diet and alcohol intake persists after control for energy density. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 63, 479-482
6. Valimaki, M.J., Harkonen, M., Eriksson, C.J., & Ylikahri, R.H. (1984). Sex hormones and adrenocortical steroids in men acutely intoxicated with ethanol. Alcohol, 1, 89-93
7. Flechtner-Mors, M., Biesalski, H.K., Jenkinson, C.P., Adler, G., & Ditschuneit, H.H. (2004). Effects of moderate consumption of white wine on weight loss in overweight and obese subjects. International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders, 28, 1420-1426
8. Buemann, B., Toubro, S., & Astrup, A. (2002). The effect of wine or beer versus a carbonated soft drink, served at a meal, on ad libitum energy intake. International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders, 26, 1367-1372


2009-05-12 11:02 AM
in reply to: #2121346

User image

Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Alcohol
eabeam, thanks for the articles!  So, rather than being metabolized as fat, alcohol is metabolized into a substance that our bodies prefer to burn before fat.  That is a big difference in my mind.

But, in the end, I will vote for all things in moderation.  I have cut a significant amount of alcohol out of my diet prior to this info but I refuse to cut it all since I enjoy the flavor of the drinks I choose to have. 
2009-05-12 11:04 AM
in reply to: #2145844

User image

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Alcohol
COSkiGirl - 2009-05-12 9:02 AM

But, in the end, I will vote for all things in moderation.  



As my wife says, "All things in moderation, including moderation!"
2009-05-12 11:55 AM
in reply to: #2145844

User image

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Alcohol
COSkiGirl - 2009-05-12 11:02 AM eabeam, thanks for the articles!  So, rather than being metabolized as fat, alcohol is metabolized into a substance that our bodies prefer to burn before fat.  That is a big difference in my mind.

 


Which is exactly what I said many posts ago


2009-05-12 1:42 PM
in reply to: #2146006

User image

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Alcohol


Which is exactly what I said many posts ago
 



1. You are absolutely right, dear!...  Ok, I don't know you like that, but I am married and I always need to practice it without sounding sarcastic.

2.  The tone of this thread is EXACTLY why I forbid my employees from debating important points via email.
2009-05-12 2:09 PM
in reply to: #2146342

User image

Member
25
25
Here or there
Subject: RE: Alcohol

Jeez... if I forbid employees from doing that, I wouldn't have this high quality entertainment! :p  Great info.  Thanks!

2009-05-12 3:22 PM
in reply to: #2146440

User image

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Alcohol
brockadoo - 2009-05-12 12:09 PM

Jeez... if I forbid employees from doing that, I wouldn't have this high quality entertainment! :p  Great info.  Thanks!




I would agree if I was not the one having to pick up the pieces afterward.
2009-05-12 4:30 PM
in reply to: #2146006

User image

Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Alcohol
lisac957 - 2009-05-12 10:55 AM
COSkiGirl - 2009-05-12 11:02 AM eabeam, thanks for the articles!  So, rather than being metabolized as fat, alcohol is metabolized into a substance that our bodies prefer to burn before fat.  That is a big difference in my mind.

 


Which is exactly what I said many posts ago


Oy.  Sorry. Embarassed
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Alcohol Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2