Creatine (Page 2)

As already stated creatine keeps the muscles hydrated IE they retain water easier.  While you're taking creatine your muscles will look bigger as a result but once you stop you'll lose much of that size when you lose the water weight.  That being said it does alow you to push a little harder during your weight lifting thus activating more muscles fibers but this will do little to help in endurance training.

If you're going for a sculpted look I'd suggest strength training. There's plenty of literature on the subject and many websites similar to this one with tons of support.  Check out http://stronglifts.com/, Mehdi's a pretty cool guy and helped me a lot while I was strength training.

Anything is possible, but there have been several studies that don't suggest a correlation. But, they still aren't sure WHAT causes a cramp, so take that for what it's worth.

Several studies have failed to find a correlation between creatine and cramping in various athlete groups, or any real adverse side effects in kidney function. There was a study in the mid 90's that suggested it helped decrease vLDL levels, IIRC.

If both of your legs are jellowy, achy and kind of crampy all over, I'd look at other things than shin splints. On the drastic side, you have compartment syndrome. My first suspicion would be old shoes, though.

John

Creatine's dirt cheap BTW.

"...On the drastic side, you have compartment syndrome. My first suspicion would be old shoes, though."

Just b/c I need constant breaks to get through my work, the Wikipedia article for "compartment syndrome" cites 2 studies linking it w/creatine. That's eerie.

BTW: Pretty sure it was the shoes after reviewing my work-out log.

Edited by Porfirio 2009-06-17 1:55 PM

Phosphocreatine energy system is what you all are talking about, very short burst, we're talking 5-10 seconds.

Glycolitic takes over after that and usually only dominates up to to 30-45 seconds

From that point on, aerobic systems are the dominant energy producers.

All systems produce ATP, just through different mechanisms and durations. 

As Jorge keeps saying, aerobic power is what makes you fast (although I still say having decent anaerobic power to go along with that will then make you even faster)

Indeed although I think your times are a little off (assuming we are looking at the dominant energy system for maximum sustain effort for the duration):

ATP-PC (anaerobic alactic) - based on ATP and PC stored in the cell and can fuel exercise for 30-45 seconds

Glycolytic (anaerobic lactic) - uses muscle glycogen and can fuel exercise for 90-120 seconds

Oxidative (aerobic) - uses glycogen and fatty acids and is dominant for any exercise lasting longer than 120 seconds

Shane

I'm not joking at all.  You can get a year's supply for less than $50.  Not sure what you were buying.

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133642&cp=2108320.2102405

So if I try to dumb this entire thread down for us non-medical types.  Creatine may make your muscles bigger, but will not necessarily make you stronger, and therefore will not help to create more power for swimming, biking, or running.  Do I understand it correctly?

Based on my cert. class, bioteknik is right.  A.A. Alactic is only about 7 seconds or so.  Combined with glyoclytic you have about 90 seconds of anaerobic energy in your system.

This is why anything over a 400 is considered an endurance event and under is a sprint event (although with the current pattern of WR holders one could argue at the elite level an 800 is a sprint).

Correct.

Creatine itself will not make the muscles bigger. They will APPEAR bigger because of the extra fluid that the creatine draws into the muscle cells.

The ACTION of creatine, and why it is one of the few supplements that works as advertised, is that it allows your muscles in the short term (less than 2 mins) to work a little bit longer, so you can do a little more work while doing something like weightlifting. It's this extra bit of work that creates the actual muscle growth.

And, this will circle back to the weekly debate about whether or not weightlifting helps triathlon, but it will make your muscles stronger. Whether or not that translates to higher level of strength on the s/b/r is debated on a weekly basis. (I say no, which is why I don't weightlift. I am a firm believer in specificity of training. You get better at doing something, by, well, doing that thing.)

John

As other have said the primary effect is for anaerobic energy and short burst of exertion.  For most people, creatine will also cause muscles to hold more water and "volumize" (i.e., get bigger).  Once you stop taking it, you'll lose the size from the water retention; however, to the extent that you were able to train harder anaerobically (over the course of the cycle taking it - heavier weight, more reps or sets, etc.) you should still retain some gains from the training that you did while taking it.  I don't think it makes much sense at all when train focusing more on endurance training and less on weights.  It might have some value if one were to hit the weights harder in the off season for a cycle or two.

Awesome! By no means is this a "end of thread" post, but what a great discussion this has been between the pros & the average "joe's".

Huh. Ok, I need to readjust my thinking a bit. (Another reason I'm re-reading a new ex phys book). I was under the same impression as gsm, but this confirms Rick's side:

http://predator.pnb.uconn.edu/~wwwpnb/virtualtemp/muscle/exercise-folder/muscle.html

John

It's interesting that you imply that since it's naturally created by the body it's inherently safe to use. And hilarious that you then go on to mention steroids.

Cause steroids are naturally created in the body and all....

I have not had the chance to read all the responces, so if any body else has said this( sorry)
If you want muscle mass you must first find your one rep max for the muscle group you want to build, then work at 70% of your max. As for creatine I would give it a miss, i took it years ago got some bad advice was cross traing in a comp old fashioned muscle and endurance event, to cut long story short it helped a bit with my muscle endurance events(bench press) but when it came to my 2 mile run i had pooling in my calfs after 1/4 mile.

Eat more protein on the days you train this muscle group.
A good diet  will beat any suplement.
lol

I will have to double check my sources but I'm almost 100% certain that the anaerobic alactic can go for at least 30 seconds.

Shane

I've been reading on the web, and I'll check my phys book when I get home, but everything I'm finding says the anaerobic alactic is for up to 10 seconds, and then the anaerobic lactic (no a) is from 10-90 seconds.

John

OK, turns out I'm an idiot

Dug out my books and found that my 30-45 seconds was only off by a factor of 3...

The ATP-PCr system can provide energy for workbouts of 10 seconds (up to 15 in highly trained athletes).

Shane

Yeah, look what endurance training did to this guy.  What a wimp.

FWIW, science aside, I've taken it a few times in the course of the last 10 years starting in college when I was bigger into just lifting.  I think you'd be wasting your money taking it for this sport.  You'll also have to drink even more water than you do now and be p***ing all over the race course  ...from my experience anyway.  

I think the posters mentioning the cheapness factor were referring to the monohydrate.  There are also the ethyl esthers out now that are relatively new over the past couple years that get absorbed more easily by the body and don't require as much consumption during the loading phase.  That form is a little more expensive.

I did find the last time I took it I had more explosive power for an extra couple of reps or so (i.e. bench 315 for 6 instead of 4 reps at my peak working set).  But honestly, I'd just make sure you have a good clean diet (which I do not anymore to by honest with myself), and you will notice better improvements in all sports related activity without the need for spending additional money on supplements.  The big guys at the gym used to joke, you want to get big, take that money and go buy a bunch of brown rice and chicken breasts and start eating right.  Granted your diet will be much different than a bodybuilder on a 40/40/20 diet, the same overall principle is there.

But, to answer your original question.  If you take the monohydrate, you'll want to load for a week (read directions), then take for about 8 weeks, then take a month off or so (from my experience).  If you have the money get the newer delivery technology because I noticed less bloat when I took that.  Keep in mind I haven't taken it in probably 3 years at this point...but if your going to take it regardless of the advice given here, that would be my approach.  Also keep in mind you'll have to keep your caffeine consumption lower....I don't want to get into that topic now because my post is already longer than planned, but do some research on it....

Edited by acumenjay 2009-06-18 7:50 AM

at this point though it is minutiae, the gist is that the PC system is only for short bursts of energy.