good idea or time to relax and reconsider?

It is hard to say without looking at your training. My guess would be that you have not been doing the longer rides and runs necessary for the distance of the HIM. If you haven't built up at all to about a 3 hour ride and a 2 to 2:30 hour run then I would say hold off. The swim is not that much diferant than your Oly's. With the short time between races and the lack of longer miles it might be a recipe for disaster. You would set yourself back phsycologically and maybe physically. I would wait and train for the distance the right way and with plenty of taper and rest prior to the start. There is a big differance between an Oly and a HIM.

As someone already said...it's tough to say without looking at your logs where you are in your training. If doing a HIM is really important to you this season, maybe you can start building up to it right now. That way when you do your other races, you will be well prepared for them and can use those races as training days for the HIM. Three weeks is plenty between races, so don't let that deter you.

Also, I am partial to Bassman as it was my first HIM and I LOVED it. I may do it again this year depending how I feel post IMLP. As far as HIM's go, it's fairly easy. Nice easy swim, flat bike and flat trail run. It's a great race all around.

IF you would rather wait till next season, I would shoot for Black Bear. It's challenging but also very rewarding.

You've got plenty of time to knock out the HIM before you do an IM in 2011, so don't feel the need to squeeze it in this year unless you REALLY want to.

Thanks.  I just linked up with BT... will have to start posting my logs so everyone is able to provide more "accurate" feedback.  Based on the general guidelines that I should be in the neighborhood of 2 hr runs, 3 hr cycles, etc and the fact that I'm a novice swimmer have me convinced that I'd be better suited waiting until 2010.  I'm going to check out Black Bear... I believe I remember hearing the cycling is a larger-than-normal challenge.  Should play well into my strength though!

Given that Bassman seems to fall in Oct of each year, it may be a good way to round out next season.  Thanks for the tips - I look forward to sharing my progress. 

As others have said it's tough without seeing your logs but IF you're in the neighborhood of 8 hours a week already AND your goal is to just finish, I say go for it. You have 2 weeks in July, all of August and all of September to build up your long swim, bike, and runs.

Personally, I don't think the 3 weeks between the SF Tri and the HIM should be a problem. I did an Oly 6 days before my first HIM.

Just my .02....

That is exacly why I'm torn.  I'm getting about 8 hrs/wk now and consider myself to be in pretty solid shape.  I heard a rumor that if you can do any one event any given day you should be able to combine all 3 to at least finish. Not sure if there is any truth to this, but I can currently/have done all 3 events on separate dates problem-free.  I feel like getting a HIM done in Oct would be a huge motivational boost going into the offseason, but then again as previously stated, if I don't complete it there's a chance the failure would be wicked demoralizing.  Still undecided...

If you're at a solid Olympic tri level right now, you have enough time to get ready. As others have mentioned, you would need to go into training for that half IM, and then use the shorter races as tune-ups. The question you need to ask yourself is how important is it to you? Not to your friends or anyone else, but how bad do you really want to do it? Roughly speaking, you're going to need to double the amount of biking and running, so is that something you are willing to do?

I'm not sure I agree with the theory that if you can do all 3 events separately, you can do them in one day and at least finish. If you could go out fresh and do just get through a 56 mile bike ride, and then on another day go out fresh and just manage a half marathon; putting them both together with race intensity would likely be a painful experience and possibly a DNF.

So, figure out if it is something that you truly want to do, and then build a plan (using existing plans and experienced folks to help) that will get you to where you want to be. Go into race day *knowing* that you can finish the race, not *hoping* that you can.

Thanks for your responses.  In follow up to the how bad do you want it question --- it would help to contextualize with LT goals.  I'd like to complete an IM in 2011.  Leading up to the IM, I'd like to partake in 2 if not more HIMs.  I see the Oct 09 HIM as a nice bridge to the longer distances and want to complete it with the intent of raising confidence for HIMs in 2010.  If I don't go for the Oct 09 HIM, I will feel pressured to train hard through out the winter months (which isn't easy in the north east) so I could compete in a HIM in April/May, leaving enough time for another one or two later into the summer.  Should I complete the Oct 09 HIM I will feel less pressure to complete the HIM early in 2010... maybe leaving room for a few olys early in the season, but instead of just completing them actually going for PRs.  

At this point, the two things that concern me for the HIM in Oct would be avoiding injury with ramped up training + 2 olys in the month prior and the 13.1mi run.  I ran 12 mi on Monday evening, and feel OK, but I haven't done a brick that comes anywhere close to 58/13.1. 

Agree with JK on the swimming part. I missed the lack of swimming experience in the post.

With respect to injury - do you have a history of injuries or is there some other reason why that's a major concern? I think you have enough time to ramp up the volume safely. But if you've had past injury issues then maybe not??

I don't have a history of injury tied to endurance training.  I was a baseball player and have cronic elbow problems but its never an issue unless im playing basketball or on the golf course (believe it or not).  The only training injury I've had (twice) was mild runner's knee.  Nothing at all...

I do agree that my swim needs to be improved... drastically ha and that would be an understatement. BUT I have completed a mile+ OWS and have 2 add'l 1.0 and 1.5mi OWS coming up in Aug/Sept (incl Alcatraz).  I have no doubt I'll be able to finish the swim, but I also don't doubt that I'll be BOP. 

A couple things.  You don't need to do ANY bricks that come close to 58/13.1.  I probably wouldn't run any more than 6 off the bike.  Second, you live in Doylestown.  That's the mid-atlantic, not the northeast.  Yes, it's cold in the winter here, but you can train pretty solidly year-round if you want to.  Third, why the need to do so many HIMs next year anyway?  One will suffice.

Finally, I still don't understand what you hope to accomplish in an HIM this year if you can't swim the distance with freestyle yet.

They're your goals, so I can't tell you they're "wrong".  But I have a hard time following a consistent logic within them.

You absolutely can train year round in doylestown for the most part - but for 3 months miserable might be an understatement. I have an hour commute to and from work, meaning I'd have to be outside training at 430 as I am now or after 730/8pm as i am now. Less than ideal. Thinking about getting a trainer for my bike which would help, but it would still be more challenging to get the long runs in then than it is now with this mild summer weather.I'm indifferent about the stroke that I use to complete the HIM - if I have to do a 50/50 freestyle breast stroke split that doesn't bother me at all. I'm not in it to win it - I just want to complete it.My goals... I'd like to complete more than one HIM prior to an IM - personal preference.

Get the trainer.  If you're willing to drop the $ on an HIM, you can buy a trainer and its pretty much invaluable to training in this region.  I use mine year-round.  You can run in any weather.  And at pretty much any time.  But in the winter, there's no reason you can't be doing longer runs on the weekends during daylight.  Save the weekdays for riding on the trainer, swimming and shorter/medium runs.  Just some ideas, at any rate.

I still think you should learn to swim first.  Any experience you gain in the HIM this year will be incomplete if you are struggling through the swim that way.  Then do an HIM next summer.  Do another one in the fall if you need to.  You can also do one in the year of your IM.  Those are my opinions.  And you asked...

Absolutely I appreciate the feedback/advice.  Your point is a good one about doing a HIM in the yr of the full IM.  I don't see why I couldnt do a HIM in june/july then an IM in aug/sept.  

Do you have any recommendations on a solid trainer? I haven't searched the forums yet or done any research 

I use a Cycleops fluid trainer and am happy with it.  That and the Kurt Kinetic are usually considered among the 'best' of the fluids (which are generally both quieter and more 'road-like' than the magnetic or wind ones).  But many people have been very happy with more 'value'-oriented brands.  Do a search or ask in the gear forum to get plenty of input on those.

It reads ( and I admit I could be wrong) that you are not giving the swim part enough respect...
Swimming that distance in open water is completely different than doing that distance in a pool, either as sets or swimming straight.  Are the any tri clubs by you that have OWS clinics this summer while the weather is nice??

I'll also admit that I just got done ranting at a couple of friends that want to do a tri, have very little swim experience outside of boating and think the swim will be the easiest part since it's the shortest, so that mindset was really in my mind when reading that you dont' have much swim experience. 

eta
how did you do in the Oly swim??   I just noticed that you did that.. the distance isn't too much farther to the HIM, and like I mentioned above I"m still in vent mode on someone else     sorry


Edited by Gaarryy 2009-07-15 10:00 AM

I'm doing IMWI and have also done two HIMs this year - IMNO April 5 and IMRI last weekend. I think you can most definitely do two in your IM year and I recommend it given your experience is similar to mine. I'm also only a year into the sport and have only done 5 races thus far. The IM will be my 7th.

I have to disagree with some of the info here, and agree with some of the others. I think you have plenty of time to start training now and do an HIM in October. I only had 8 solid weeks and was coming off an injury and winter defecit and I was fine. Work on your swimming, even if you have to swim 5 days a week and just add it on top of your other training. I did this last year and it really paid off. Now I only have to swim 2-3 days a week and have improved drastically, and I literally just learned last year from May-July so I'm as novice as they come.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get to an HIM now rather than wait and nothing wrong with wanting to race multiple HIMs vs do other distances. Now that I've done two it's what I prefer and I haven't done any sprints or olys this year, although I have an oly next weekend. You just need to train through those races and use them as practice and for fun.

My longest brick in my initial HIM training was 50 miles bike and 4 miles running. I did way longer bricks prior to my second but they were for the IM, not the HIM.

You're smart for thinking it though like this and getting advice. It's up to you what level of commitment you want to make starting now and how you're willing to view the interim races. Good luck.

No worries - yes I have done long OWSs but they're slow and a majority of the strokes are breath stroke.  I lose a lot of time but save a lot of energy.  The distance in terms of miles isn't what I look at when considering a race, I try to do the math on how long it'll take and what sort of toll it will take on my energy level and the impact it'll have on the rest of the event. 

But to JK's point earlier, if the swim isnt where i want it to be for the HIM the experience will be incomplete in terms of accurately preparing me future and longer races.

The good news is that this event (Bassman NJ HIM) doesn't sell out, and I can wait to see how I feel and train for the HIM in the mean time.  Worst case, I'm going to sign up for their sprint to check out the venue, HIM participants, course, etc. They're held on the same day. 

I acquired my boyfriends Cycleops... and trained on it for MANY, MANY HOURS in 2008! Worked great!

It will take you 4-6 months to get to a more solid swim for the half distance and not feel smoked coming out of the water.  At your current pace cut off times may be a concern for the swim.  3:45 ish x 22 puts you at 1:22:xx for the swim.  Most HIM swim cutoffs are around 1:20, so you will need to pick up distance and a little speed.  Your run looks awsome in the short distance and your bike looks decent for the shorter distances.  Both should translate well into longer distances relatively quickly (read 3-4 months). 

But ya, given your swim you might want to hit an early HIM next year and maybe hit a fall HIM (3-4 months later) to see how much you have improved and then go for an IM the following year. 

You could do something instead of the fall HIM this year like a Century ride, a half mary or a late fall/winter full mary.  The swim is where you need to get in some serious time though.