Did first Tri - How much can I improve in next year

I would say yes based off it being your first. Since you did not list your splits it is hard to see where it will come from. Transitions are one area where beginners can shave off time. In that amount of time you can also increase your bike speed to gain you some ground. I would see what event you are good at an where you can grow. I kno I am not a fast runner so I have been working speed workouts to get used to running faster. Good work for your first race keep it up.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I rocked the transitions thanks to "the Bear".  I beat everyone from 34 to 64,  there was a 65 yr old who must have been on his 50th tri that beat me in transitions.

Swim 500   12:22   2:29
Bike 14.5   40:28   18.4
Run 5 mi   44.29   8:54

I could have pushed harder in the swim and maybe picked up 30 seconds, but pushed the bike and run to my max.

I was able to get just under 8:00 on 3.5 mi training runs, so I think this where I could pick up the most time.

Perhaps you pushed the bike too hard and didn't leave enough left for the whole run?

If your logs are accurate, your volumes could be higher. As always, ride more, run more, pace better.

I dont agree that volumes have to go way up, but you should look at quality.  Also what are your distance goals (Sprint, Olympic, 70.3 or 140.6). 

For Sprint / Olympic the training is about the same (for most). 

Interval work will give you the speed that you need. 

Also break your goals down. 

Say you want to be able to swim 500 in 8 minutes.  You want to avg. 22 MPH on the bike and you want to hold a 6:45 pace on the run.  That may help.  

Look at your training and throw out the "junk" miles in favor of high quality training. 

Your room for improvement rest on you and how you approach the "off season".

Build a solid base.   Hit the track for some speed work.  Hit the bike and get some good quality interval work in. 

Intervals are the key to speed. 

Good luck.  

Doing intervals on 25 running mile per month and 80 cycling miles per month is inviting injuries. Build yourself a base first, the old saying is that "Speedwork is the icing on the cake. " and you don't have a cake yet.

You have a long way to go before your additional training volume can be described as "junk miles."

Edited by the bear 2009-08-17 2:22 PM

Hey Bear, I am on a high here.  The month is only 1/2 over and I had 4 days of taper.  I just started getting regular with my logs.  I probably average 45 run and 150 bike.

But I get your point.  Build the bike and run mileage, but stay just short of injury.

I appreciate all of the feedback.  I think the answer is I can expect 5 to 10% improvement which would get me to 1:32 to 1:39.

I really miss my weights and probably will be more 50/50 weights/cardio for six months than back to 10/90 weights/cardio.  Still quite a change from 25 years of 95/5 weights/cardio.

Bottom line is I do feel god physicaly now.

There are no such things as junk miles.

Intervals without adequate base training are a recipe for disaster and injury.

Yes, you always want to maximize your training to get the most out of as little as possible.  But in that sense when you are talking about the most bang for your buck you are still talking about athletes that put in 8 - 10+ hours a week before they really introduce a lot of speedwork and intervals.

If you want to succeed at your distance and improve your time on the same course (or any course for that matter) you need to figure out WHY you had a bad run.  It could be you went too hard on the bike (most of the time this is the reason for a crappy run).  It could be you simply did not have the overall base fitness you needed to perform at the paces you went across the board.  It could be that your training is too one sided and lacks all around balance.  It could have been the temperature, the way the wind blew or what you ate three days before.

In other words, it could be any number of things.

I personally do almost ZERO interval training throughout the season because I do not have enough consistent base to justify it.  When I am in full marathon training where I am hitting 5 - 7 sessions a week consistently then I will introduce some into my later stages before the race.  While it has been shown that interval and speedwork is critical to success at the elite level, it does not always translate over to the amateur athlete who is only doing 2 - 3 sessions a week on less than 10 - 15 miles a week.

Do you have a coach, or did you use some specific plan or are you making it up as you go along?

Edited by Daremo 2009-08-17 5:59 PM

I do not have a coach.  I am just reading here and there and drawing on years of listening and observing at the gym. 

You mentioned analyzing the reason for a crappy run.  For 5 months I was training for a 3 mile and was able to get to 7:50 miles for 3.5 miles.  A race was canceled and I picked a race that had a 5 mile run about a month ago.  I streched my runs to 5 miles and was able to get to 8:20 miles for 5 miles. 

My race Sunday was at about 8:50 pace,  I felt sluggish from the first step off the bike.  I expected this, but it did not improve much as the race went on.  I think I just didn't have enough of a base to draw on.  Even if it was from pushing too hard on the bike the answer is to get stronger more durable legs.

Offseason - Leg work with weights (squats, step up on the bench with dunbells), Versa Climber (really work on the hamstrings), runs of 3 to 7 miles, bike outside or on the trainer, swim whenever I have a spare 20 minutes.  All to build base. 

When spring comes I will cut back on the weights and Versa Climber and start with some speed work.

?????

I do not have a coach.  I am just reading here and there and drawing on years of listening and observing at the gym. 

You mentioned analyzing the reason for a crappy run.  For 5 months I was training for a 3 mile and was able to get to 7:50 miles for 3.5 miles.  A race was canceled and I picked a race that had a 5 mile run about a month ago.  I streched my runs to 5 miles and was able to get to 8:20 miles for 5 miles. 

My race Sunday was at about 8:50 pace,  I felt sluggish from the first step off the bike.  I expected this, but it did not improve much as the race went on.  I think I just didn't have enough of a base to draw on.  Even if it was from pushing too hard on the bike the answer is to get stronger more durable legs.  You are both kind of right,  speedwork is useless come race time if you don't have the base,  I could have been able to do 6:00 miles for 3 miles in training, but if my legs are shot from the bike, that time is out the window.

Offseason - Leg work with weights (squats, step up on the bench with dunbells), Versa Climber (really work on the hamstrings), runs of 3 to 7 miles, bike outside or on the trainer, swim whenever I have a spare 20 minutes.  All to build base. 

When spring comes I will cut back on the weights and Versa Climber and start with some speed work.

?????

Edited by NorthernNewbie 2009-08-18 10:34 AM

You should not assume that because you can do "X" for a run in training that you can then run "X" in a race where you have already swam and biked.  Even the top of the field will have a difference in what they can do in an open run versus what they can do in a tri after swim/bike legs.

Here is a "general" reference list for tri times - all of these assume that you have paced the rest of the race correctly (i.e. - you have not overcooked the bike):

Open 10k pace = sprint tri 5k pace
Open 1/2 marathon pace = olympic tri 10k pace
Open marathon pace = half ironman 1/2 marathon pace
LSD training pace = ironman marathon pace

A :30 increase from your training splits to your race split for a 5 mile run segment is not unheard of and it sounds as if your run split would be in that range based on it being your first race and newer to the sport.

The main thing I would recommend is that if your race is a certain amount of miles do NOT just go out and run that distance in your training trying to keep the same pace every time or beat the last one.  I do not have people training all that much different if they are looking to go fast in a sprint versus finishing a HIM strong.  The basic training patterns are the same.  I'll just introduce a bit more speed work as the race gets closer for the shorter stuff (unless it is a less important race in a larger build to a longer one).

Edit:  And all that other junk (loosely termed) you want to do in the winter for "base" is a waste of time if your main goal is to improve your swim/bike/run abilities - other than the swim, bike and run training of course.  Will it build your strength up and help you to be a well rounded person?  Sure.  But weights, Versaclimber and all that are a waste of time if you are trying to get faster as a runner.  You want to run faster?  Run train ....... the winter is a great time for that as it is cool and you don't have to worry about overheating.

Edited by Daremo 2009-08-18 10:51 AM

A 30 second drop-off between your stand-alone 5-mile pace and your pace at the end of a triathlon is not that unusual or signficant. I'll stick with my original recommendation, ride more, run more, pace better on the bike, if you want to be faster on the run.

As far as off season, you might wantt o look into some of the Winter Maintencance plans on this site
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/trainingplans-list.asp?h=1&racetype=0&level=2

though I think you have to be a Performance Member to access them. Might be worth the few bucks.

Wow, I'd love to finish top 3 in AG with those kind of times. I must be doing the wrong races. ;-)

Seriously though, you can improve quite a bit just by being consistent and slightly increasing the volume. Really work on establishing a solid base, then add in some speedwork next spring as you get closer to racing season.

BTW, unless you did your little workout the day prior to the race at race pace, it shouldn't have had a big effect. Working out at race pace would not have been a good thing to do. Warming up the muscles is good, fatiguing them is not.