Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009)
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2009-10-08 12:34 PM |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) Here is my dilema. My LBS is having a sale - same price on both the Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) ($2500 CDN) Which is better deal? The store owner suggests the E-112... I don't know... Both are quite similar: carbon frame and forks and seatposts. The Argon has slightly better wheels (Mavic vs. Shimano 550) and looks so much more sexy... but the cervelo is lighter and proven. Then again, everybody and their uncle has a Cervelo P2... Help me decide... |
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2009-10-08 1:21 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) |
2009-10-08 1:32 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Master 2301 Rogersville, Alabama | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) mgalanter - 2009-10-08 12:34 PM Here is my dilema. My LBS is having a sale - same price on both the Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) ($2500 CDN) Which is better deal? The store owner suggests the E-112... I don't know... Both are quite similar: carbon frame and forks and seatposts. The Argon has slightly better wheels (Mavic vs. Shimano 550) and looks so much more sexy... but the cervelo is lighter and proven. Then again, everybody and their uncle has a Cervelo P2... Help me decide... Both Canadians! Do you ride steep or slack? |
2009-10-08 2:18 PM in reply to: #2450023 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) steep. 95% of time in aero bars. I'm 5'11, 190lbs. I suck at climbing and rock on the flats. I currently ride a Fuji Aloha 2002 (650c wheels) |
2009-10-08 2:32 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) Do both fit you equally well? |
2009-10-08 2:45 PM in reply to: #2450209 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) Yah. They both fit beautifully. The Felt B12 was also in the running ($2,600 CAD) but I felt like it fit too small (they ony had one frame size in it)... I heard the ARGON-18 E-112 is extremely stable - that would be good for me but I heard the Cervelo P2C climbs very well for a Tri bike (climbing is my weakness) |
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2009-10-08 3:16 PM in reply to: #2450237 |
Master 2301 Rogersville, Alabama | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) mgalanter - 2009-10-08 2:45 PM Yah. They both fit beautifully. The Felt B12 was also in the running ($2,600 CAD) but I felt like it fit too small (they ony had one frame size in it)... I heard the ARGON-18 E-112 is extremely stable - that would be good for me but I heard the Cervelo P2C climbs very well for a Tri bike (climbing is my weakness) What size frame? |
2009-10-08 3:27 PM in reply to: #2450303 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) What size frame? Medium.. Edited by mgalanter 2009-10-08 3:42 PM |
2009-10-08 4:08 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Veteran 257 Iowa | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) Everybody including their uncle.....and me have a P2C. Just bought one last week!! |
2009-10-08 4:20 PM in reply to: #2450458 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) harleyclone - 2009-10-08 4:08 PM Everybody including their uncle.....and me have a P2C. Just bought one last week!! Have one myself. It's not without reason that they're so popular, well-designed, -built, and -specced bike at a good price point. |
2009-10-08 4:46 PM in reply to: #2450484 |
Pro 4828 The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) the bear - 2009-10-08 5:20 PM harleyclone - 2009-10-08 4:08 PM Everybody including their uncle.....and me have a P2C. Just bought one last week!! Have one myself. It's not without reason that they're so popular, well-designed, -built, and -specced bike at a good price point. What he said!!^^^^^^^^^^ |
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2009-10-08 5:24 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Expert 1027 | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) I do not know much about the Argon, but I love my P2. Take the following into consideration:FitComponentsAfter that, whatever one you like the looks of better. |
2009-10-08 5:35 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) Must...not...drink... Cervelo Kool Aid... must...save.... BT... from becoming ST v2... just kidding they all ride Transitions' now hehe |
2009-10-08 6:29 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Member 17 wpb | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) Avoid the Felt b12 you looked at. I had a 2009 that i sold after 4 months. design issues with the brake chipping the frame. I got a great deal on a Fuji D6 and the bike is amazing. Of the two your are looking at, I prefer the Cervelo, especially at that price! |
2009-10-08 6:58 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) |
2009-10-08 6:59 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) |
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2009-10-08 7:31 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Expert 1027 | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) If it came with the zipps i would say that, but I prefer the blue colors of my p2 |
2009-10-08 8:16 PM in reply to: #2450732 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) I wish those ZIPPS were standard... my decision would be easier |
2009-10-08 9:03 PM in reply to: #2450732 |
Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) From my experience, Cervelo is an awesome bike but...as I tell my husband, "the bike doesn't make the biker!" The position of the seat of the Argon is a lot tighter than the P2, It's actually closer to the P3. The aerodynamics of the rear wheel is better that the P2. You can get a Zipp wheel set (as you know, from Ebay) and you will be set. Don't get caught up in name brands. The carbon frame and aerodynamics are what counts. By the way, if it were me, I would buy both, try them out , then sell the one I didn't want. But I don't shop, hate it. Oh yea, my husband says to mention that I have a P3. |
2009-10-08 9:13 PM in reply to: #2450872 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) pschriver - 2009-10-08 10:03 PM From my experience, Cervelo is an awesome bike but...as I tell my husband, "the bike doesn't make the biker!" The position of the seat of the Argon is a lot tighter than the P2, It's actually closer to the P3. The aerodynamics of the rear wheel is better that the P2. You can get a Zipp wheel set (as you know, from Ebay) and you will be set. Don't get caught up in name brands. The carbon frame and aerodynamics are what counts. By the way, if it were me, I would buy both, try them out , then sell the one I didn't want. But I don't shop, hate it. Oh yea, my husband says to mention that I have a P3. Thanks pschiver - you helped me get some clarity on this. I've wishing for a Cervelo P2 for 2 years and it has clouded my judgement - Cervelo is a incredible bike but in this case I'm starting to think I'd be getting more bang-for-the-buck with the ARGON. I do like your suggestion of buing both... Maybe you could run that by my wife... She's convinced that since I'm not winning any prize-purses - regardless of what bike I ride - I should stick to my old Schwinn Beach-Cruiser. |
2009-10-08 10:58 PM in reply to: #2449838 |
Extreme Veteran 669 Olathe, Kansas | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) I am 5'9", 157lbs, riding on small E112, 404F/808R, have about 5000mi on it. I came off Trek E9. P2C is a solid machine, awesome package for the money, no doubt. These two bikes will fit similar. I did several spec changes to stock E112 at a time of purchase. P2C comes stock with excellent components. There, I would not change a thing whether Ultegra SL or DA. What I did not like about E112: Profile bars, hate them as much as their Aerodrink that keeps giving me a bath with my Infinit Tektro brakes Energy crank Ultegra FD I ended up with: vision cockpit Bontrager brake levers/ Ultegra calipers DA FD FSA Team Issue crank E112 is a solid, very stable bike. On flats, if you pour power, it takes it, straight line, no frame flexing, smooth acceleration, holds momentum, very solid platform under you, no twitching at all. Rolling hills great too, 70.3 Kansas at 2:27, not the lightest bike in the line up, but as long as you are not racing 70.3 Monaco, Alp Duez... you will be fine. I do suggest here to be weight mindful when you start adding your stuff to the frame and also respect the aero advantage the frame gives you. What I mean by that, I see over and over very expensive, aero and light aerobar set up to be ruined with "aero drinks", bento boxes........Even though aero trumps weight in most cases, as I said this frame is not the lightest, so "any upgrades" should be lighter than stock. So far the bike has been very good to me, reliable working flawlessly. It is regularly serviced and inspected by my LBS as I keep things in racing condition. Fit wise, Argon18 also has a very nice chart for E114 that applies to E112 where you can plot your coordinates and instantly get a feedback on the fit. I am very happy with my bike and can warmly recommend it to you. Argon18 stands behind their product. P2C is a very widely ridden bike. Many reasons for that. To name a few, geometry that fits wide range of athletes, awesome package for the money and frankly, very hard to beat, frame is excellent, nice selection of components very likely to ride for very long time without changing, Cervelo being a proven company with a proven product on the market. P2C is one the favorite bikes out there. Let the fit be your first concern here. Whichever fits better with the fact that your position will evolve over time. Make sure your choice will allow for that. If both fit equally good and allow for your position evolution, let the subjective test ride feel guide you. Whichever bike feels better under your tail preferably while putting major power to the pedals. In the end, money talks. Whichever comes to be more bang for the buck. When everything was said and done for me E112 came out to almost $6000. It included the changes I made, Zipp 404F/808R, Xlab carbon wing rear set up (all the parts, bags, CO2s). Yep, it adds up real quick. I am about to spend another $2000 on Quarq/310Xt combo. Yeah, gets crazy. Good luck with your choice, you will not go wrong either way and report back when you inflict damage to your bank account. |
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2009-10-09 8:49 AM in reply to: #2450981 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) atasic - thank you for the great review of the E112. It sounds like you upgraded your rig quite nicely. I'll definitly use your advice on keeping the aerodynamic fram 'clean' by avoiding bento boxes and aero-bar drinkbottles. Is the P2C more gile / a better climber? My body type is stocky & muscular - I'm fairly powerful on the flats but I suffer on the hills (yet some of my favorite triathlons are very hilly, like the Muskoka 70.3 HIM). I'm working on a tight budget right now - everything wil be stock ( ultegra components) for at least one season. Are you suggesting that a stock P2C will offer better components (and E-112 better frame) if I'm not going to upgrade? Thx |
2009-10-09 1:56 PM in reply to: #2451398 |
Extreme Veteran 669 Olathe, Kansas | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) mgalanter - 2009-10-09 8:49 AM atasic - thank you for the great review of the E112. It sounds like you upgraded your rig quite nicely. I'll definitly use your advice on keeping the aerodynamic fram 'clean' by avoiding bento boxes and aero-bar drinkbottles. Is the P2C more gile / a better climber? My body type is stocky & muscular - I'm fairly powerful on the flats but I suffer on the hills (yet some of my favorite triathlons are very hilly, like the Muskoka 70.3 HIM). I'm working on a tight budget right now - everything wil be stock ( ultegra components) for at least one season. Are you suggesting that a stock P2C will offer better components (and E-112 better frame) if I'm not going to upgrade? Thx If you are being offered the very basic package for E112, which includes a mix 105/Ultegra/Truvativ vs. P2C Ultegra, with out a doubt price being equal, P2C is the way to go. Much better components. In either case, I think P2C comes with such a package that you will never have to touch anything and easily save the money for a good set of race wheels. P2C is a race ready machine period. Add a wheelset and you have a bike for the life of it. The best thing would be to have the shop give you an exact list of components for both bikes. If you need help, post it here, we can give it a look. For Muskoka, 70.3 Kansas and a like rolling hill courses, weight is secondary. There is no prolonged steady climbing involved. You would be fine on either frame. You have to look down the road and see where you think you will be racing, what kind of courses you like and make a decision from there. I think Silverman, Lanzarote, Monaco and a like courses benefit from truly light bikes. Yes, at least in theory P2C should be a better climber, but you know that is on paper. It is all about the engine in the end. If climbing is your weakness, examine your body composition( room for free speed), add force work on the bike, go climb hills until you start crying and you will become a better climber. In summary in your case, based on what you provided so far, I would say it comes down to components that will come with these two bikes. P2C comes with Vision cockpit, Vision brake levers, I assume Ultegra SL FD, RD, cassette, Gossamer crank, Fizik Arione 2 saddle, DA bar end shifters.....All great stuff with no reason to ever touch replacing. Let me know which E112 package you are being offered. |
2009-10-09 8:03 PM in reply to: #2451398 |
Expert 1027 | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) mgalanter - 2009-10-09 8:49 AM atasic - thank you for the great review of the E112. It sounds like you upgraded your rig quite nicely. I'll definitly use your advice on keeping the aerodynamic fram 'clean' by avoiding bento boxes and aero-bar drinkbottles. Is the P2C more gile / a better climber? My body type is stocky & muscular - I'm fairly powerful on the flats but I suffer on the hills (yet some of my favorite triathlons are very hilly, like the Muskoka 70.3 HIM). I'm working on a tight budget right now - everything wil be stock ( ultegra components) for at least one season. Are you suggesting that a stock P2C will offer better components (and E-112 better frame) if I'm not going to upgrade? Thx I will add a comment about the P2C climbing, wow is all I can say. Took mine outside tonight althought it was only about 45 degrees. I could not believe my speeds going up some of the hills. It felt significantly easier than my Trek E5 ever felt. I could not believe how comfortable I felt with my legs just spinning and moving up the hill. It looks as the P2 also has better components from his review, while not huge, the Ultegra group is pretty solid. I am going to try out the FSA crank for a while, although I have not been a fan in the past. |
2009-10-10 12:52 AM in reply to: #2449838 |
Master 2855 Kailua, Hawaii | Subject: RE: Cervelo P2C (2009) vs. Argon 18 E-112 (2009) wow, an Argon 18 E-112 for $2500 ? that's seems like a super price. I googled it and the frameset was almost that price! |
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