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Total miles vs long rides- Bike
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 2010-02-03 1:55 PM |
Veteran  278   Chicago, IL |  Subject: Total miles vs long rides- BikeOk, so it seems lke a general running consensus that as long as you get enough total miles in during a week, your long run distance is a secondary concern. I buy into this. I've had little problem doing a half Marathon with a max long run of 8 miles. In fact, my result was the same as when I did a couple 14 milers prior. In both cases I was doing the same 30 mi/wk. My question is does the same apply to biking? One of my big reasons for disliking the bike is the need to set aside a solid block of 2-3 hours 3 times a week, and that's just for an Oly. I get home from work, walk the dog, get on the trainer and get done at 10:00. Screws up the whole night, sleep, and the next day. As I consider HIM vs Oly vs 'retirement' from tri, the bike is the main driving factor. Now, if I could get away with doing 4 rides of one hour and one weekend ride of 3 hours hour to get my 110 miles/wk in, instead of a 1.5 hour, 2.5 hour and a 3 hour, I might be more receptive to this biking idea. In fact, I'd be able to do the rides at higher intensity and probably get a couple extra miles in comparatively. Do the same training principals apply, though? Can I do just a bunch of shorter rides and expect to be able to do a longer ride no prob, as long as I have the weekly milage base? Is 110-115 miles a week just as effective as 110-115 miles a week, regardless of how they're done? Thanks for any input. |
| 2010-02-03 2:48 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Expert 2555  Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike IMO, yes - 4 rides of one hour and one longer ride on the weekends would be sufficient. It may actually be better to do it that way. When you do less workouts, each one has to be longer. By spreading it out a bit more you can reduce the amount of time each workout takes. You'll still be getting in the same volume and doing a longer ride. Go for it. |
| 2010-02-03 2:53 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike Unless you are racing soon someplace warm no reason to do 3 2-3 hour trainer rides now. Your plan is good to do one longer ride and a few hour rides, and that should work for you come warm weather to. General rule shorter the ride more intensity you should add. Are you following a plan? Do more intensity and do shorter rides. Have you looked at Jorge's winter bike training plan he offers free here on BT. It would work well for trainer rides for you during the winter. My A race is IM and currently I do 3 trainer rides all under 1:10 but they are hard and intense..end up doing one zone 3, one zone 4 and one zone 5 focused workout each week. |
| 2010-02-03 3:00 PM in reply to: #2653044 |
Veteran 278 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike KathyG - 2010-02-03 2:53 PM Are you following a plan? Do more intensity and do shorter rides. Have you looked at Jorge's winter bike training plan he offers free here on BT. It would work well for trainer rides for you during the winter. My A race is IM and currently I do 3 trainer rides all under 1:10 but they are hard and intense..end up doing one zone 3, one zone 4 and one zone 5 focused workout each week. I'm following a 20 wk oly plan that has 6 left to go. I can't say it's a detailed plan, though, just total minutes. So, this week my rides are supposed to be 93/124/155 minutes (peak week). I've shortened each 10% since I'm on the trainer and not necessarily enjoying things. My heart rate at every ride is just up to 165 and hold it for the whole ride, pretty much. Nothing scientific (or smart) like I do on the run. That's one reason I don't do Jorge's plan, for now I'm really 'learning to ride' and that looked a little too high end for me at the moment and I didn't want to deviate at all from the 20 wk plan. I've 'structured' my season to peak at this Oly and then decide what the heck I want to do, for now. I haven't bothered to build a plan yet, but if it is viable to do 4 shorts and one long, I'd for sure build that in. |
| 2010-02-03 3:08 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike That's decent bike mileage. You should be fine with that regardless of whether or not it is the optimal mix throughout the week. Splitting it up that way shouldn't be an issue as long as you have the right intensity. Did I read that right? You hold 165bpm as an average HR for a ride? Can you verify that? Sounds really high for the bike. |
| 2010-02-03 3:15 PM in reply to: #2653088 |
Veteran 278 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike acumenjay - 2010-02-03 3:08 PM Did I read that right? You hold 165bpm as an average HR for a ride? Can you verify that? Sounds really high for the bike. That is correct (per my Garmin). I am somewhat of a Heart rate freak of nature. My cross country coach in High School took away my monitor since I could make it spike to race levels by walking fast (back when I was running sub-5 minute miles). I've only tried it on the bike since I'm new to it and need some way to determine effort . Typically, I'll hop on the bike at about 80, get up to 165 by mile 4 and hold it (Again, at least that's what my 305 says). I've explained this to docs and they haven't shown concern, although, it still seems odd to me, even. |
| 2010-02-03 3:16 PM in reply to: #2653065 |
| Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike randomguymike - 2010-02-03 11:00 AM KathyG - 2010-02-03 2:53 PM Are you following a plan? Do more intensity and do shorter rides. Have you looked at Jorge's winter bike training plan he offers free here on BT. It would work well for trainer rides for you during the winter. My A race is IM and currently I do 3 trainer rides all under 1:10 but they are hard and intense..end up doing one zone 3, one zone 4 and one zone 5 focused workout each week. I'm following a 20 wk oly plan that has 6 left to go. I can't say it's a detailed plan, though, just total minutes. So, this week my rides are supposed to be 93/124/155 minutes (peak week). I've shortened each 10% since I'm on the trainer and not necessarily enjoying things. My heart rate at every ride is just up to 165 and hold it for the whole ride, pretty much. Nothing scientific (or smart) like I do on the run. That's one reason I don't do Jorge's plan, for now I'm really 'learning to ride' and that looked a little too high end for me at the moment and I didn't want to deviate at all from the 20 wk plan. I've 'structured' my season to peak at this Oly and then decide what the heck I want to do, for now. I haven't bothered to build a plan yet, but if it is viable to do 4 shorts and one long, I'd for sure build that in. I'm no expert, but that seems like a lot of miles/time for an Oly. I mean 93 minutes is your shortest ride. You probably won't even spend 93 minutes on your bike during the actual race. Must be a pretty hardcore plan. |
| 2010-02-03 3:18 PM in reply to: #2653116 |
Veteran 278 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike tri808 - 2010-02-03 3:16 PM I'm no expert, but that seems like a lot of miles/time for an Oly. I mean 93 minutes is your shortest ride. You probably won't even spend 93 minutes on your bike during the actual race. Must be a pretty hardcore plan. Standard Free BT 20 wk oly plan. It defnitely feels hardcore, on the bike at least. |
| 2010-02-03 3:29 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Expert 829 | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike I'm more or less following that same plan. I've combined the minutes for the first two bikes, and split them into 3-4 days depending on what my schedule is like that week. So, instead of 93, 125, 155, it would be more like 60, 50, 50, 50, 155. Lots of two a days where I'll run in the am (trying to run 4x/week), then ride in the pm, and keeping that pm workout under an hour is often required. Keep in mind, these are the numbers for your peak week, most weeks aren't that bad. |
| 2010-02-03 3:33 PM in reply to: #2653159 |
Veteran 278 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike norcal_SAHD - 2010-02-03 3:29 PM I'm more or less following that same plan. I've combined the minutes for the first two bikes, and split them into 3-4 days depending on what my schedule is like that week. So, instead of 93, 125, 155, it would be more like 60, 50, 50, 50, 155. Lots of two a days where I'll run in the am (trying to run 4x/week), then ride in the pm, and keeping that pm workout under an hour is often required. Keep in mind, these are the numbers for your peak week, most weeks aren't that bad. This is exactly what I was thinking about doing for my second pass through the Oly plan or first pass through a HIM plan. So, based on what you've experienced so far, is the long bike crazy-hard since its so much longer, or is it just another ride? How far into the plan are you? You think you'll be ready? |
| 2010-02-03 3:39 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Member 360 Denver, CO | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike The one thing I would say about total miles vs long run miles is that I have had issues when doing long runs with chaffing that I never experience when running shorter miles for the same total miles per week. That is, once I get over ten miles I NEED some kind of spandex on my thighs or I feel like there is glass scraping me. Anyone who has watched marathon runners has to wonder about those who have bloody nipples - if they were wearing these clothes on the long runs you would think they would have managed this issue a little better. Sure, I understand there may be issues for any particular individual (never expected to run in 40 degree weather...) but the sheer large numbers of people indicate (to me) that people either changed something for their marathon did not do some long runs. I found something similar with biking - my back never got tired or sore before 40 miles - but when I did 75 miles I definitely experienced soreness. |
| 2010-02-03 4:01 PM in reply to: #2653171 |
Expert 829 | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike randomguymike - 2010-02-03 1:33 PM This is exactly what I was thinking about doing for my second pass through the Oly plan or first pass through a HIM plan. So, based on what you've experienced so far, is the long bike crazy-hard since its so much longer, or is it just another ride? How far into the plan are you? You think you'll be ready? I'm early in the plan (week 9), so it's hard to really tell. The mileages aren't that big yet, so I'm not needing to split up much to keep them under an hour at this point. I'm very confident that it will be plenty to have me ready though. I really look forward to the long ride, cause it's outdoors and FUN. many of my shorter rides are often indoors, boring, and often I just suck it up and do them, as opposed to enjoying them. I always enjoy the long ride. If anything having shorter daily bikes make the one long ride more enjoyable than if every single ride was long. Basically, I needed to split up the rides into multiple shorter ones because of avaliable time during the week. But I think it's probably as good, if not a better plan, than the way it's originally written. |
| 2010-02-03 4:04 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike The free BT plans are designed for BOP finishers. It takes them a lot longer to finish each leg than a MOP or FOPer. So the times listed ensure that if you are slow, you'll still be able to do the distance. If you are faster, you'll be covering much mroe distance, and it becomes less of a specific training plan for you. There's no need for 2-3 hour trainer rides during the week for an Oly. Add some intensity to the trainer rides, cap them at an hour, then do some tempo and sweet spot work during yoru longer ride on the weekend. |
| 2010-02-03 4:13 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Expert 774 England | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike this is interesting - I'm reading a book dedicated to riding Sportives and the detailed plans suggest multiple short rides that are significantly less than the event distances. They had 1 longer ride, but still much less than the event itself, and the recommendations from the (science based) approach are that endurance focused rides should only be 90-120 mins max. That was a big surprise for me as I thought it would call for ots of long distance rides but it doesnt appear to be needed int heir plans either. |
| 2010-02-03 4:18 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Master 1795 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike I tend to do just fine (competitively speaking) with 2 trainer rides of 1:00-1:30 during the week and 2:00 ride on the weekends (for olympic dist). Keeping the intensity up at times especially on the trainer would seen to overcome the need for such long hours IMHO. |
| 2010-02-03 5:16 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
| 42 | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike is the plan the OP is talking about designed for someone with a relatively high level of fitness? or is it for someone "off the couch"? |
| 2010-02-03 5:24 PM in reply to: #2653247 |
| Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike AdventureBear - 2010-02-03 12:04 PM The free BT plans are designed for BOP finishers. It takes them a lot longer to finish each leg than a MOP or FOPer. So the times listed ensure that if you are slow, you'll still be able to do the distance. If you are faster, you'll be covering much mroe distance, and it becomes less of a specific training plan for you. There's no need for 2-3 hour trainer rides during the week for an Oly. Add some intensity to the trainer rides, cap them at an hour, then do some tempo and sweet spot work during yoru longer ride on the weekend. I guess this makes more sense...someone going 20-22 mph for 93 minutes is very different than someone going 15 mph for 93 minutes. |
| 2010-02-03 5:33 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Extreme Veteran 481 West Chester, PA | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike I'll second KathyG's suggestion about Jorge's winter plan. I'm about to start week 4, and I feel stronger than I did all of last summer. The rides are fairly short (most about an hour), but long on intensity. |
| 2010-02-03 5:40 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
Expert 606 Lakeville, MN | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike Any non-recovery ride less than one hour: ride hard. Any non-recovery ride over one hour: ride hard. Ok...maybe the second part isn't necessarily true, but regardless of on trainer or off trainer, make those short sessions count. Four 60 minute Z1 rides will do nothing other than get your caught up on your favorite DVR shows (well, it may do more than that if you currently do zero rides of any kind, but we'll assume you want to race, not just participate). I'm like you in the sense that I'm not overly thrilled w/ the 3-5 hour ride sessions. Life is short and my ADD is just too damn rampant. As a result, I spend a fair amount of my training in the 1-1.5 hour range, but that 1-1.5 hour range usually hurts...bad. |
| 2010-02-03 6:02 PM in reply to: #2652895 |
| Master 2460 | Subject: RE: Total miles vs long rides- Bike On both bike & run, in general, more miles = better performance. |
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