Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! (Page 2)

x2. You're right, panicking in the water is dangerous, but unlike panicking on a bike, you can't just hit your brakes when you're in the water. The fact that you're in the water is what is going to kill you...not just the panic.

I think one of the big misunderstandings is what it means to swim adequately. I swam competitively for a long, long time, and hearing people say they need to take a breather after ever 50 in the pool is like having someone tell you they can't make it once around a track but they're running a marathon this weekend. The reality is that all of those tri distances (minus ironmans, obviously), are not long races as far as swimming goes...I get a little nervous hearing about people who are only confident cruising 200 meters but they'll sign up for an Oly as long as they can have their wetsuits. That just isn't enough, and it's not like you can just walk it like during the run.

If it saves someones life, good.

I bolded the difference between you and some of the other posts on here. The one that struck me was someone that said "I tried my first OWS and I made it 50m before I couldn't swim any more. I have my first tri in a week, should I do it?" You're out there training, God only knows what some of the others are doing.

There are a couple other in the same tone. It just astounds me that people think they can just go out and "do" a 400m+ swim without any preparation. If KHS hadn't posted something like this, I would have. I could care less if I hurt someone's feelings if it keeps them from harming themselves or those around them.

John

Agree with others.

I also think that you should have proper bike training and handling skills before entering a triathlon as well.  Bike accidents are far more common than swimming ones...and can be just as deadly.  What many beginners don't understand about the bike is that most accidents occur because of other cyclists...not with cars, curbs, trees, etc.  When you're out on a course with many other people racing hard...you need to know what you're doing out there.  You may think you're being safe by taking it easy and cruising at 12 mph...but if you're doing a multiple lap course, there will be people flying by you at 25 mph...and you need to know how to handle yourself out there.

Edited by tri808 2010-06-27 11:55 PM

While I can understand your concern...in theory, how would you propose to make this happen? Participating in swim instruction is one thing...doing it in an open water setting is pretty cool too, if you can find a coach to meet you in that sort of scenario...um, but how do you go about obtaining proof of a 'mass start' without actually participating in one...most likely in a real life triathlon scenario? Do you place an ad in the local classifieds and ask a couple hundred folks to just come on out to the lake on their own time to help with your training??? A little to idealistic if you ask me. I know we have long passed the point of people being expected to actually take responsibility for their own well being...but, maybe it's time to start eliminating a good bit of the 'hand holding' that seems to permeate todays society...
 

My gut wants me to agree with you, but I get the feeling that people just don't have the respect for an OWS and the distance involved in a tri that they really should.  My feeling is that the lack of respect is the result of ignorance, and the assumption that the race wouldn't exist if it weren't "safe" to do it.  Triathlons are becoming more and more popular, with that more people who are unprepared are tempted to give them a try.  I think being forced to prove that you can swim the distance may be a bit much, and would put an unnecessary burden on a RD, who already has enough to worry about, but I wouldn't be against a bit more of a reality check for people who are signing up for a triathlon.

The directness in this thread is a long time in coming and way overdue, IMO.  I grew up damn near living in the open water every summer in Canada and swam competitively in HS (the longer distances, at that), did a lot of ocean swim training before my first tri...and still completely freaked out during the first couple 100 meters come race day.

Flash forward a couple years and my wife and I just volunteered a couple weeks ago to take a couple newbies out for their first wetsuit ocean swim the day before their race.  Both were glad they did it and one was pretty shellshocked by the experience.  So we find out they had another friend who was going to be doing the race with them the next day who not only refused to come with them to practice with us but HADN'T EVEN SWUM 100 YARDS IN A POOL YET.  And they were planning on showing up for a 400m ocean swim.

Guns do not kill people, people kill people?  Water should be respected but never feared.  I have to agree with nvandyke.  While I know Karen's post was from the heart and aimed at trying to warn people about the potential for drowning, I think "water kills" is a bit over the top and might increase the newbie's anxiety about OWSing. 

I have not heard/read about any newbie triathloners drowning in a triathlon because they were improperly tainined.  BTW, it is a lot harder to "drown" than people think becuase of laryngospasm or the body's response to water trying to enter the lungs but I won't go into that.

Most (if not all) of the OWS swim deaths I've read about over the years have been due to injury or heart issues. 

The bottom line is, people do dumb things - they smoke, they drink and drive, they ride motorcycles, they don't wear seat belts, they text while they are driving, they put chemical in their blood and stimulants up their nose and yes, they do OWS not being prepared.

I think the best answer to "can I do this distance" is the same as "how much does that cost"....if you have to ask.....then no, you can't.  Like nvandyke wrote, panic is what kills people, not water.  Seriously, if you have to ask if you are ready, you are not.  Not until you have the confidence that you can do an OWS are you ready to do an OWS.  Maybe that requires lessons or maybe just more time in the water. 

Anyway, I love swimming and I love the water but water does not kill anymore than driving a car kills.

~Mike

Edited by Rogillio 2010-06-28 4:31 AM

While I ABSOLUTELY AGREE that people need to be properly prepared to swim the distance (and more) of triathlons they enter, it's important to remember that swimming-related deaths in triathlon are a fairly rare occurrence. One study from a few years ago cited 15 swimming deaths/1 million participants in a particular calendar year. Of those, nearly half (6) showed an un-diagnosed underlying heart condition on autopsy.

We don't know what happened to the swimmer in the Philadelphia Sprint race. Some posts indicated he may have been an experienced triathlete. Unfortunately, if someone suffers a cardiac event or stroke in the water, especially in a non-wetsuit swim, they could slip under un-detected pretty quickly. So another take-away from swimming deaths in triathlon might be to make sure you get a good physical exam before entering your first triathlon!

Prayers for the lost athlete's family.....

She isnt discouraging anyone from racing.

She is encouraging them to train properly.

I find that this sport is much more about the training than race day.

This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by PennState 2010-06-28 5:11 AM

Yes, but with sky diving you know you are going to complete the distance.  :-)

I think bigger issue facing the sport than improperly trained newbies are the mass swim starts.  I don't want to hijack Karen's thread but I think this is very related.  Aside from heart attacks and other medical issues, I'd say getting kicked in the head is probably a bigger source of trouble in the water than getting hit in the face with an ill-timed or rogue wave.

As the sport grows and more and more people are trying to participate, I think it TT and AG waves and other starts should be used to minimize the amt of injury incidents caused by the washing-machine of fists, feet and elbows of mass swim starts.

BTW, when I was in college, the parachute club gave 'extensive' 2 hrs course you had to take prior to jumping out of an airplane....but I was much younger and stupier then...

~Mike

This is a great thread and a lot of great points are coming out of it. If the thread serves as a wake up call and makes 1 person think twice about what they are getting themselves into in entering a tri without the proper training it has done it's job. Thanks for posting it Karen.

Mike, you know that I love to encourage people into this great sport and lifestyle we all enjoy. I have to disagree with you that Karen went overboard with her post. OWS can be intimidating as heck to even accomplished swimmers that have never been in a mass start getting kicked around, elbowed, swum over, etc. All Karen is saying is to spend a little time getting acquainted to the chaos and actually do some swim training so you are NOT swimming from kayak to kayak. Let the kayakers (trained lifeguards) do their jobs and look for people in DISTRESS and not people trying to make it to the next kayak.

Heck, I am a pretty strong swimmer and have had races that I have had to stop because I've been belted and swallowed too much water.

All this being said my advice to any new triathlete that is nervous about the OWS portion of a triathlon is:

WHEN THE GUN GOES OFF ............. WAIT! Start at the back of your wave and wait for 15 seconds before you start swimming. Now you've taken the mass start out of the equation and can relax. If you're worried about the fast swimmers in the next wave catching up to you then swim to the outside. Yes, you'll be swimming 770 yds instead of 750 yds but you will be by yourself and out of the chaos.

Those doing their first Ironman mass start can do the same thing. Wait 5 minutes and the lake is all yours. Is 5 min going to put a dent into a 12-16 hr overall time? No, except that it will calm your nerves for the rest of a very long day.

Thanks again for the post Karen!

Bob

I am going to speak from the vantage point of being the person in the canoe.  The ones who scare me the most aren't the ones who haven't practiced an OWS.  It's the ones who can't swim a single stroke and still sign up for a triathlon.  We can often calm a person who is overwhelmed by the OWS aspect but the middle of a lake in the middle of a race is not the time for me to be trying to give a non-swimmer swimming lessons.  And as I explained to one participant who I pulled to shore... "as soon as I had to jump in after you not only were you not safe but neither were the other swimmers in my area or me." 

I sort of boil it down to this - if you have to swim breaststroke for any reason other than to round a buoy or get a better site, don't bother signing up. 

Sometimes the unexpected happens while racing. It can happen to even experienced swimmers. Generalizations like this aren't appropriate here, a website to help beginners.  

Geez, get off your high horse.  Of course things happen in a race, but, as a general rule if you rely on breaststroke to get you through the race, you probably aren't a good enough swimmer to sign up.  It's a slow stroke and the kick is also disruptive to your competitors. 


Edited by aquageek 2010-06-28 7:49 AM

My boss swam the breastroke at Purdue.  He'd probably disagree with you.

Everything else aside.. that quote rocked! 

I am not on a high horse, I'm being realistic. Things happen, like getting kicked in the face or chest or swam over. You have to collect yourself and move on.

You're being harsh. 

I know a woman who swam the breaststroke the entire oly and large part of her HIM.  She was one of the top three in the oly in her AG. 

I know of an multi-time ironman who swam his entire swim leg in backstroke for his HIM. 

Not everyone must swim freestyle.  Please do not underestimate the other strokes. 

I swim with a two time OT qualifier in the breast and he swim free in tris, go figure.  His breaststroke is a thing of beauty, 4 strokes and kicks per 25, three after the start.

I'm not talking about experienced competitive swimmers, I'm talking about newbies (this is BT forum, right).  I know a woman who did the swim around Key West race all fly, but that's a different topic.  I'd be perfectly happy swimming a whole tri back, I think.

I will repeat and reiterate, if you are a newbie swimmer and your plan includes a lot of breaststroke (basically a survival stroke in OW) you have no business signing up.  This does not mean it isn't valuable in many circumstances in a race, but should not be plans A, B, and C to finish the swim. 

Edited by aquageek 2010-06-28 8:07 AM

I agree with the sentiment of being prepared Bob, what I take exception to is this:  Too many people seem to have NO FEAR of the water. Get some fear. Get it now. Respect the water. If you get tired, can't make it to kayak, swallow too much water from the waves, get knocked around and it makes you panic... you could DIE. WATER KILLS.

I do not believe anyone needs to fear water.  Like all things, you need to understand the danger but ther is a huge gulf between understanding the danger and being fearful.  Yes, I understand Karen means a reverent 'fear' or respect but, "...you could DIE.  Water KILLS" is a little too harsh.  I have read 10x....no, wait, 100x more people getting killed biking than drowning during a triathlon becase someone was ill prepared. 

Again, I'm not argueing that OWS doesn't carry risks...but I don't think OWS swimming is any more dangerous than biking on the road or texting while driving.

BTW, I've had 2 near-death drowning experiences in my life.  Once I capsized a boar in the TN River in November.  I was wearing rubber boots and a big heavy coat and the the frigid water caused me to suck in some water...and the boots/coat were pulling me under.  I sobered up quickly and took off the coat and boots and surviced.   Becuase I did not panic I lived.  The second time was when I was taking SCUBA lessons and jumped in with too much weight and was getting fatigued trying to stay afloat and did not know how to use my BCD.  Again, I did not panic and survived.

Fear is actually a BAD thing IMO.  Fear leads to panic.  Understand the danger but do not fear the water.  You are NOT going to down.  Water is not going to kill you.  Understand that your body floats!  You are not going to sink.  Panic and fear will get you killed.  If you get tired, stop swimming!  Just tread water and don't panic.  Train to become comfortable in the water.  In SCUBA class they teach students to "not panic".  Students have to take their mask completely off under water and put it  back on underwater.  Why?  Not becuase it's a difficult task...they do it to learn to stay calm.

Well, take away from this what you will.  If you don't agree, that's ok.  Even an old cow has the sense to eat only the good hay and spit out the sticks.  ;-)

~Mike

Thanks for posting this Karen!

Also, the water makes minor problems not so trivial.  I was pulled out of my first HIM on Saturday halfway through the swim because of an asthma attack I couldn't shake.  What would have been a minor nuisance on the bike or run (use rescue inhaler stored in shorts pocket and spin or walk or even stop completely until attack was over) cost me a finish.  (I was hanging on a rescue boat trying to catch my breath - they radioed the EMTs, who told them to pull me up and bring me in.)

I always fear this having asthma that can get pretty bad (2 hospital trips in my life through attacks) and while its better in the water, having a bad attack could end the race.  I'll run with an attack, and bike with one, but that whole borderline 'I'm going to pass out' feeling is a no go in the water.

Edited by furiousferret 2010-06-28 8:12 AM

That's better (speaking from my high horse).

I also dislike when people use the wetsuit as a crutch. While it's "nicer" to have the extra help, I do not think people should shy away from races because they're not wetsuit legal. You should be able to get through the swim comfortably without one.