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2011-11-30 8:52 PM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

With that kind of 5K foot speed, you should be going quite a bit faster on the HIM run, more like 1:30 if not faster.

So one question you should be asking is why you didn't go faster on the run.  Did you bike too hard for your fitness? In that case, perhaps you'll see big gains by working very hard on the bike while maintaining the run.  Then you get off the bike in a similar time, but able to hit the run that you are capable of.  Or did you not train the run to sustain your effort for 90 minutes?  In that case, while you still need to work on the bike, you should rethink your run training.

Your 5K versus 10K times suggest that the problem might be the latter.  17:xx 5K should translate to WELL below 40:00 10K for any but the most extreme 10K courses.  (But maybe there were significant differences in circumstances that explain the difference.)

And don't discount the swim.  If 1:44/100 was a very difficult effort for you, then that effort will significantly affect you later in the race.  On the other hand, if you were cruising, then I'd tend to agree that you have bigger gains to be made elsewhere, though of course it would be nice to make more progress on the swim.



2011-12-01 11:21 AM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

A 36 minute swim isn't going to cut it. I would be willing to bet that you burn A LOT of energy on the swim which leads to not going as fast on the bike and (for you looking at your 5k time) a poor run. The swim makes the bike and the bike makes the run. The best way to improve your swim is to swim with other people (i.e. masters or at least a group of fellow triathletes that are good swimmers). The bike is also an area that can be improved, spend time this winter on your trainer doing targeted intervals to build speed and then do some aerobic rides outside to build endurance. At this point with your run all you need to do is maintain which should be fairly easy.

Work hard this winter and you should go sub 5 next year (on the same course with the similar conditions) with no problem.

2011-12-02 3:47 PM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

I wasn't tired at all getting out of the water.  I was basically cruising.  I am a heavier triathlete at 188 lbs so I think my 5k time is good but as the distance increases the extra weight affects my endurance energy.  I wonder if I just lost 10 lbs how much faster I would be. 

The other factor I have this winter is that I am injured.  I have a stress reaction in my femur that I didn't let heal after my HIM in September.  I actually raced with it which I think affected my run time just a bit (but who knows).  I am taking 6 weeks off from running and probably 4 weeks off from biking (I think the biking is aggravating it).  I am only swimming right now.  I am trying to swim 6 days a week for an hour.  I am hoping this will improve my swim time a little bit.  I just hope this won't affect my goal of the sub 5 next summer since I plan on taking it slow when I start to run again.

2011-12-02 8:18 PM
in reply to: #3924045

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?
MRDAVIDALEXANDER - 2011-12-02 4:47 PM

I wasn't tired at all getting out of the water.  I was basically cruising.  I am a heavier triathlete at 188 lbs so I think my 5k time is good but as the distance increases the extra weight affects my endurance energy.  I wonder if I just lost 10 lbs how much faster I would be. 

The other factor I have this winter is that I am injured.  I have a stress reaction in my femur that I didn't let heal after my HIM in September.  I actually raced with it which I think affected my run time just a bit (but who knows).  I am taking 6 weeks off from running and probably 4 weeks off from biking (I think the biking is aggravating it).  I am only swimming right now.  I am trying to swim 6 days a week for an hour.  I am hoping this will improve my swim time a little bit.  I just hope this won't affect my goal of the sub 5 next summer since I plan on taking it slow when I start to run again.

It should improve your swimming A LOT! Don't sweat not being able to run or bike right now. It would seem to me that your run is in a good place, it should come back pretty quickly. The bike might take a little longer but you should be back to where you were within a month or two at least. If you think that it won't adversly affect your performance and you can safely drop the 10lbs it will definitely help. I am not one that thinks you should actively try to lose weight if you don't need to though.

2011-12-31 3:53 PM
in reply to: #3924045

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

Your story sounds familar.

2008 my First HIM 5:13

Swim 32

Bike 2:41

Run 1:50

2009 2nd HIM 4:57

Swim 34

Bike 2:33

Run 1:41

HIM 2 much harder day 90+ and a really tough swim. I have no where near the footspeed you do when fit I'm about a 18:50 5ker.

Difference btw HIM 1 and 2 was I raised my FTP power number from 260 to 280 rode my arse off and dropped from 186lbs to 175.

Knowing very little abt you I am guessing you are a big strong guy hence ability to run a 5k fast but the drop off in pace over longer diastance. IMHO for what that is worth you need to improve the biking and lose weight. I don't agree with all the peeps telling you to run more. Buy a power meter learm to use it lose some weight and you'll go in the 4:40's. Also a few cheap minutes in your swim but I think you have 10mins just by becoming a better biker and the flow on to the run of that.

Good luck J

 

 

 

2011-12-31 5:52 PM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

Not knowing the course but knowing you have a TT bike I would say start hammeriing the bike and/or trainer.  Also, start running more.  Basically you could shave 9 minutes off you time on the same course under equal conditions by improving you bike time by say 6 minutes and your run time by 3 minutes.  Actually you could even put a little more emphasis on swimming and cut another one or two minutes off there.



2012-01-07 6:52 AM
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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

Don't know the bike course but I reckon your bike leg let you down and you suffer on the run. You need to put in the miles on the bike this winter. 

Best of luck. 

PS - I've done two sub 5's, my first and second HIM. 

2012-01-07 9:36 AM
in reply to: #3922134

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?
Rocket Man - 2011-12-01 12:21 PM

A 36 minute swim isn't going to cut it.

I went 36:01 in my last HIM, and finished in 4:46:52.  Just sayin'.  (I don't necessarily disagree with your advice, however.)

2012-01-07 11:48 AM
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2012-08-20 8:50 AM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

Well....I did it! Here are my splits(i need to work on my transition times):

Swim:33:03
Bike:2:35:48
Run:1:40:48
Overall:4:54:34

T1:2:42

T2: 2:13

2012-08-20 7:33 PM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

Nice work!

So, now that you've met your goal, what is your own take on your original question in this thread -- what was the key to your improvement?



2012-08-20 7:57 PM
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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?
Biking harder(2x20@95-105 every week, with lots of other intervals thrown in there) and running 6x/week.  Thanks for all the advice. Now my next goal is a sub 11 at Ironman Florida in November. 
2012-08-20 8:15 PM
in reply to: #3908188

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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?

Congratulations!

Nicely done!

 

2012-08-21 7:59 AM
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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?
Very nice!
2012-08-22 1:37 PM
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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?


Edited by bigpaps 2012-08-22 1:38 PM
2012-08-23 6:43 AM
in reply to: #3909061


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Subject: RE: 5:09 HIM to sub 5:00?
gsmacleod - 2011-11-20 1:31 PM Based on this:
MRDAVIDALEXANDER - 2011-11-20 12:36 PM 5K: 17:31

10K: 42:00

You need to spend more time running; not necessarily trying to get faster but just build run volume as this indicates that you lack endurance. A 17:31 5k predicts about 36:30 10k and a 1:20 HM. If you can address your run endurance, with a well executed swim and bike, should be looking to run 1:25-1:30 for a HIM. However, in terms of truly making progress, you need to spend time working on your bike and swim. Your swim time would indicate that you should be able to make solid gains in the water; I would suggest you aim to spend 3-5x/week in the pool with a coach on deck for at least a couple of workouts over the winter and spring and you could easily shave 5 minutes off your swim time next year. As for the bike, use the winter to follow Jorge's plan and hit the spring ready to log some serious miles; mostly hard, sometimes easy. Focus on building threshold and spend a great deal of time riding at this intensity and also lots of time at race intensity. If you accomplish both of these and pace well, you should be able to go (well) under 5:00 next year. Shane

Bingo. Your run endurance needs a kick in the pants! The fall is the perfect time to run some 10ks and half marathons. Build the run volume up to consistent 30m weeks and you'll see a nice improvement. You could probably run 1:35 off the bike right now with more endurance. On the same course next year, you could easily be 4:50 or better.

Swim technique is something you can work on year round and like Shane said, having a coach on deck is helpful.

Having a solid run base and making more swim more efficient is going to help you across the board.



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