The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming (Page 4)
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2012-01-08 8:09 PM in reply to: #3978693 |
Master 1404 Saratoga Springs, Utah | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming Fastyellow - 2012-01-08 6:56 PM gerald12 - 2012-01-08 4:38 PM By the same token someone will read what you wrote and think they just need to pound out the yards to get faster, and a lot will. But most need to work on both technique and put in the work to reap the most benefit. I am not so sure one trumps the other is all I am saying. I think it's a sliding rule. As in, someone who doesn't know how to swim would be all technique and someone with a perfect stroke would only need fitness....those would be the extremes. All the best triathlon and open water swimming coaches in the world are pretty much on board with the idea that once your stroke is good enough, it's time to start pounding. Sutton, Filliol, Smith, Sousa, Rodrigues...etc etc. Yes, I agree and that is a good way to put it. I know I do not do as much work as I need to do to get better results. Which is probably pretty typical of a triathlete. |
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2012-01-08 8:12 PM in reply to: #3978693 |
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2012-01-08 8:29 PM in reply to: #3978719 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming Agree. Here's the thing everyone is dancing around. Most AG triathletes don't have a swim background and don't like to swim. They certainly do not like to swim a lot or swim hard. They will do everything in their power to justify avoiding doing a lot of swim volume. They will use drills and excessively complicated training protocols to justify their poor efforts at being better simmers. Denial is not a river in Egypt. At the end of the day, people selling swim instruction make it way too complicated. People who swam from the age of five make it way too easy. Somewhere between the two shall meet. For he most part, though, they really just need to swim more. Edited by bryancd 2012-01-08 8:40 PM |
2012-01-09 8:04 AM in reply to: #3972886 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming It's funny, about the only time I actually think about my form when I'm in the pool is when I'm swimming a hard set. When I'm getting tired and can feel that I'm starting to slow down I start focusing on the things that typically break down in my stroke. When I'm swimming at an easier pace, I just cruise and tend to zone out in auto pilot. As a side note, I made myself a band out of an old tube and tried it at the pool yesterday. Did a 8x25 and holy moley it sucked hard. I'm going to have to do lots of practice with that to get better at it. |
2012-01-09 10:24 AM in reply to: #3979270 |
Veteran 189 Mississippi | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming axteraa - 2012-01-09 8:04 AM As a side note, I made myself a band out of an old tube and tried it at the pool yesterday. Did a 8x25 and holy moley it sucked hard. I'm going to have to do lots of practice with that to get better at it. I've swam for years and have never heard of this until the past year or so (now that I'm reading triathlete stuff). I'm excited to try it as well. Has this training technique caught on with the rest of the swimming world? I finished college in 2003-had never heard of it at that point. I swim around a bunch of AGers-still haven't heard of it or seen it with them either. |
2012-01-09 11:33 AM in reply to: #3972886 |
Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming People have been putting a tire tube around their ankles since the beginning of swim time. It is not new or revolutionary. I have never figured out the value of it. I train at a huge AG club and it is not utilized at all. But, if you like it, go for it. |
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2012-01-09 11:37 AM in reply to: #3979270 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming axteraa - 2012-01-09 10:04 AM As a side note, I made myself a band out of an old tube and tried it at the pool yesterday. Did a 8x25 and holy moley it sucked hard. I'm going to have to do lots of practice with that to get better at it. We held our first youth and junior training camp of the year this past weekend - introduced them to band swimming and after the fun they had, I'm not sure how many will come back for the next camp Shane |
2012-01-09 12:00 PM in reply to: #3979854 |
Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 9:33 AM People have been putting a tire tube around their ankles since the beginning of swim time. It is not new or revolutionary. I have never figured out the value of it. I train at a huge AG club and it is not utilized at all. But, if you like it, go for it. Joel Filliol said... - band is about propulsion with the added bonus of awareness of body position. As you get faster with a band your body position improves. |
2012-01-09 12:07 PM in reply to: #3972886 |
Master 2460 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming What's the likely culprit if you're having difficulty swimming with a band? Is it all about leg drag? I can push my chest down pretty deep, but once I put the band on, it's hard to keep those legs up without a minimal 2-beat kick. I can do it but I have to do minikicks with the band on (is that cheating?) I can't do a totally stable no-movement of feet swim with the band. |
2012-01-09 12:37 PM in reply to: #3979904 |
Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming Fastyellow - 2012-01-09 12:00 PM H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 9:33 AM People have been putting a tire tube around their ankles since the beginning of swim time. It is not new or revolutionary. I have never figured out the value of it. I train at a huge AG club and it is not utilized at all. But, if you like it, go for it. Joel Filliol said... - band is about propulsion with the added bonus of awareness of body position. As you get faster with a band your body position improves. Learning to swim without the use of your legs does not make you a better, a faster, or a swimmer with better body position. Would running with your arms tied to your side make you a better runner? |
2012-01-09 12:43 PM in reply to: #3979992 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 2:37 PM Fastyellow - 2012-01-09 12:00 PM H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 9:33 AM People have been putting a tire tube around their ankles since the beginning of swim time. It is not new or revolutionary. I have never figured out the value of it. I train at a huge AG club and it is not utilized at all. But, if you like it, go for it. Joel Filliol said... - band is about propulsion with the added bonus of awareness of body position. As you get faster with a band your body position improves. Learning to swim without the use of your legs does not make you a better, a faster, or a swimmer with better body position. Would running with your arms tied to your side make you a better runner? If it helped you to learn what you were doing incorrectly, then yes. Shane |
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2012-01-09 12:45 PM in reply to: #3979929 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming agarose2000 - 2012-01-09 2:07 PM What's the likely culprit if you're having difficulty swimming with a band? Is it all about leg drag? I can push my chest down pretty deep, but once I put the band on, it's hard to keep those legs up without a minimal 2-beat kick. I can do it but I have to do minikicks with the band on (is that cheating?) I can't do a totally stable no-movement of feet swim with the band. Very likely that you are not pulling forcefully enough against the water. Shane |
2012-01-09 12:52 PM in reply to: #3980009 |
Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming gsmacleod - 2012-01-09 12:45 PM agarose2000 - 2012-01-09 2:07 PM What's the likely culprit if you're having difficulty swimming with a band? Is it all about leg drag? I can push my chest down pretty deep, but once I put the band on, it's hard to keep those legs up without a minimal 2-beat kick. I can do it but I have to do minikicks with the band on (is that cheating?) I can't do a totally stable no-movement of feet swim with the band. Very likely that you are not pulling forcefully enough against the water. ShaneWhat does that mean - not pulling forcefully enough? There is no suggested force of pulling. I know fast swimmers with very high stroke rates and fast swimmers with low stroke rates. The force of the pull is never ever discussed. I swim faster when I reduce the force of my pull but increase my stroke rate. I can swim faster for longer when I increase force and decrease rate. |
2012-01-09 12:58 PM in reply to: #3980028 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 2:52 PM What does that mean - not pulling forcefully enough? There is no suggested force of pulling. I know fast swimmers with very high stroke rates and fast swimmers with low stroke rates. The force of the pull is never ever discussed. I swim faster when I reduce the force of my pull but increase my stroke rate. I can swim faster for longer when I increase force and decrease rate. So you swim without pulling (or grabbing if you prefer) the water? Shane |
2012-01-09 1:01 PM in reply to: #3980042 |
Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming gsmacleod - 2012-01-09 12:58 PM So you swim without pulling (or grabbing if you prefer) the water? Shane Yes, on kick sets. |
2012-01-09 1:06 PM in reply to: #3979992 |
Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 10:37 AM Fastyellow - 2012-01-09 12:00 PM H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 9:33 AM People have been putting a tire tube around their ankles since the beginning of swim time. It is not new or revolutionary. I have never figured out the value of it. I train at a huge AG club and it is not utilized at all. But, if you like it, go for it. Joel Filliol said... - band is about propulsion with the added bonus of awareness of body position. As you get faster with a band your body position improves. Learning to swim without the use of your legs does not make you a better, a faster, or a swimmer with better body position. and that's your opinion....but people smarter than you have figured out that it does. |
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2012-01-09 1:09 PM in reply to: #3980056 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 3:01 PM Yes, on kick sets. So you swim front crawl without pulling the water? Shane |
2012-01-09 1:13 PM in reply to: #3980075 |
Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming gsmacleod - 2012-01-09 1:09 PM H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 3:01 PM Yes, on kick sets. So you swim front crawl without pulling the water? ShaneI have no idea what you are talking about or what point you are making. Obviously I swim freestyle and pull, who doesn't? My point is there is no prescribed "force" for pulling. Swimming isn't about isolating things, it is about the entire stroke, so to speak. I've seen some swimmers us a band temporarily but never as a long term training aid. |
2012-01-09 2:48 PM in reply to: #3980086 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 3:13 PM I have no idea what you are talking about or what point you are making. Obviously I swim freestyle and pull, who doesn't? My point is there is no prescribed "force" for pulling. Swimming isn't about isolating things, it is about the entire stroke, so to speak. I've seen some swimmers us a band temporarily but never as a long term training aid. One of the reasons (among many) that triathletes get stuck at a certain speed is that they are not pulling hard enough for their stroke rate. This might be due to a poor catch, not engaging tthe lats enough, a sloppy end of the stroke, etc but often this can be masked by an athlete's kick. With a swim band they are forced to not only focus on good position but to really try to pull the water through the whole stroke otherwise their feet sink. Shane |
2012-01-09 4:02 PM in reply to: #3980308 |
Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming gsmacleod - 2012-01-09 2:48 PM H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 3:13 PM I have no idea what you are talking about or what point you are making. Obviously I swim freestyle and pull, who doesn't? My point is there is no prescribed "force" for pulling. Swimming isn't about isolating things, it is about the entire stroke, so to speak. I've seen some swimmers us a band temporarily but never as a long term training aid. One of the reasons (among many) that triathletes get stuck at a certain speed is that they are not pulling hard enough for their stroke rate. This might be due to a poor catch, not engaging tthe lats enough, a sloppy end of the stroke, etc but often this can be masked by an athlete's kick. With a swim band they are forced to not only focus on good position but to really try to pull the water through the whole stroke otherwise their feet sink. ShaneYou can call it whatever you want to make it sound official but that's just a lot of words that say "poor technique." Putting a rubber band on your feet isn't going to solve all those problems, but it might generate a few dollars for a coaching session. |
2012-01-09 4:15 PM in reply to: #3972886 |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming One of the reasons (among many) that triathletes get stuck at a certain speed is that they are not pulling hard enough for their stroke rate. This might be due to a poor catch, not engaging tthe lats enough, a sloppy end of the stroke, etc ... or they pull hard enough for a lap or two, then get tired because they only swim 1 day per week (reference tip #3) |
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2012-01-09 4:17 PM in reply to: #3972886 |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming #1: Hire a coach. Foolproof |
2012-01-09 5:02 PM in reply to: #3972886 |
Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming |
2012-01-09 6:37 PM in reply to: #3980474 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming H20 Killer - 2012-01-09 6:02 PM You can call it whatever you want to make it sound official but that's just a lot of words that say "poor technique." Putting a rubber band on your feet isn't going to solve all those problems, but it might generate a few dollars for a coaching session. I'm not trying to make it sound official and agree that it is poor technique. However, the use of a band can help an athlete realize if they are swimming with poor technique and also provides feedback as they improve their technique. Not only that, since most triathletes have at least one old inner tube lying around, it is completely free. Nobody said it was going to solve all ones swimming ills but it is cheap, "easy" and effective for most athletes who give it a try. Shane |
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