General Discussion Triathlon Talk » New Cassette Issue Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2012-03-30 3:25 PM

User image

Member
22

Chicago
Subject: New Cassette Issue

Hello BT, hoping to get some advice if possible...

I just pulled the trigger on a new set of HED Jet's as well as a new cassette (I decided to install the cassette myself which was a piece of cake).  However, upon throwing it on the bike, pedaling is not smooth at all...almost as if I can feel each tooth of the cassette while pedaling (on trainer at this point).  I thought for certain my old wheelset had the same 12-25 cassette, but I guess that isn't the case?  I tried the barrel adjuster to no-avail.  As a total bike tech newb I don't want to mess around too much with the derailleur and will likely just take it in to my LBS.  Thought I'd poll the crowd first to see if there could be an easy fix.

By the way, it's a P2C with 7800 DA, and cassette in question is 6700 Ultegra.  Please tell me these are compatible!

Cheers



2012-03-30 3:29 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Champion
10625
5000500050010025
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

DA and Ultegra are compatible, as long as you're talking the same number of cogs in each (9-speed and 9-speed, etc.). At most a slight tweak of the barrel adjuster should dial it in.

However, if your old chain is worn ("stretched"), it might not mesh with a new cassette. Try your old cassette on the new wheel and see if the feeling goes away. If it does, then I'd suspect a worn chain.

2012-03-30 3:30 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Champion
11989
500050001000500100100100100252525
Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
Obvious, but... same speed derailleur and cassette?
2012-03-30 3:33 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Extreme Veteran
933
50010010010010025
Connecticut
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
I'd be shocked if there wasn't *some* adjustment to be made when putting on new wheels (as opposed ot just a new cassette). It's something you should know how to do though - when you get it done at the LBS, make sure to have them show you how to adjust a derailleur (front and back).
2012-03-30 3:38 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

Could also be that your delimeter screws need to be adjusted for this wheel. 

2012-03-30 4:15 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Regular
988
500100100100100252525
Westfield, IN
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
did you put on the small spacer before the cassette?


2012-03-30 5:05 PM
in reply to: #4121451

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
tri808 - 2012-03-30 3:38 PM

Could also be that your delimeter screws need to be adjusted for this wheel. 



Just a quick FYI, the term is "limit screws." Second, the limit screws will only have an impact on the lowest and highest cogs. They have no bearing on the shifting of the cogs between those two.

The two most likely culprits have already been mentioned. You may have to tweak the barrel adjuster a little because of the difference between the hubs. The cassette might not be in the exact same location in relation to the frame/derailleur as the other hub. Though, you should need not much more than a full turn in or out on the barrel adjuster. Which way depends on which direction the derailleur is out of alignment. To adjust, move your shifter to the 4th position, 3 clicks from the easiest gear (any middle gear is fine, I just picked 4th) . Your chain should end up on the correct cog. Assuming it is on the correct gear, but making a lot of noise, look at the bike from the back. The upper pulley on the rear derailleur should be directly under the 4th cog. If it is inboard of the cog, you have too much tension on the derailleur cable, turn the barrel adjuster in or clockwise if looking at it from above. If the derailleur is outboard of the cog, you need more tension. Turn the barrel adjuster out, or counter clockwise if looking at it from above. Only move it 1/8th to 1/4 of a turn at a time. Pedal and shift out of fourth and then back and recheck the alignment of the derailleur under the fourth cog. Repeat the steps, turning no more than 1/4 turn between each check. If this solves the issue for all the gears except your lowest and highest, then you will also need to adjust the limit screws. I avoid explaining limit screw adjustment over the internet because doing those wrong can cause massive damage if the derailleur should be allowed to go over the lowest cog and into the spokes. Seek professional help. If, when you move the shifter into the 4 position, the derailleur ends up on an incorrect cog, you probably need more adjustment than what is available out of the barrel adjuster. Seek professional help.

Assuming all adjustments are correct, you probably have a worn chain.

A worn chain will not work with a new cassette. Be warned that if it ends up being a worn chain and you replace it, the new chain will most likely not work with the old cassette on your other wheel.

Your chain and cassette wear together. If you put a new chain on a worn cassette, it won't work. In order to avoid having to replace both, you should replace your chain before the cassette is too worn. This is the reason it is suggested to replace chains before 3000 miles or less. I'm a heavy, powerful rider (though not fast, go figure) and I get at best, 1,000 miles out of a 10 speed chain before I need to replace it, or risk wearing the cassette. I do better on 9 and 8 speed chains, but still don't get 3000 miles out of them before needing to replace.

Edited by graceful_dave 2012-03-30 5:10 PM
2012-03-30 5:07 PM
in reply to: #4121516

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
indianacyclist - 2012-03-30 4:15 PM

did you put on the small spacer before the cassette?


An excellent point, though there are some caveats. A spacer is not needed for all applications. It depends on the hub and cassette combination. There is an excellent chance that the OP could need a spacer with their old hub, not need a spacer with the new hub and have installed it when they shouldn't have. Or it could be the opposite.

More info would be needed to answer correctly...
2012-03-30 5:08 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Master
2855
20005001001001002525
Kailua, Hawaii
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

I think we have the same problem, and pretty sure it's the chain that's not compatible. I have the same setup you have P2C and either a 7900 or 7800 DA chain. I recently got a Ultegra cs-6700 cassette thinking it should work fine, but it doesn't.

Ultegra CS-6700 cassette was re-designed and I believe needs the Ultegra 6700 10spd chain.

If you don't have the right chain it reacts the way you described, very rough and noisy.

You also have to make sure the stamped side of the chain link is facing out, since it is a directional chain.

Just to prove this, I swapped out the cassette with my 105 and DA cassettes (older) and they work fine (smooth).

 

2012-03-30 8:04 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Member
22

Chicago
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

I appreciate the help everyone.

I'm thinking it's a chain issue for sure, especially since the other fellow experienced the exact same scenario with his P2C.  My first go around at installing the cassette I actually missed the first spacer (stuck on the package) and it didn't tighten properly.  I caught the missing spacer and it cinched up solid as a rock on attempt #2.  

I certainly didn't realize chains were that special!  So just to confirm, a brand new chain will not work with my old cassette/wheel? That is not ideal as I was hoping to keep my stock rear wheel for trainer sessions, and the Jet's for certain outdoor rides/obviously races.  Thems the breaks I guess...

Thanks again

2012-03-30 8:25 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Master
2855
20005001001001002525
Kailua, Hawaii
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

I'm going to dig into this problem a bit more, I'll let you know what I find out....

kinda of a mystery really, I had assumed the 6700 stuff was compatible.

I did find a few other forum posts on the net that alluded to this issue too...so others have experienced it.

Just not exactly sure why...



2012-03-30 8:38 PM
in reply to: #4121722

User image

Davenport, IA
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
metafizx - 2012-03-30 8:25 PM

I'm going to dig into this problem a bit more, I'll let you know what I find out....

kinda of a mystery really, I had assumed the 6700 stuff was compatible.

I did find a few other forum posts on the net that alluded to this issue too...so others have experienced it.

Just not exactly sure why...

They are 100% compatible.  I use 7800 shifters with 6700, 6600, and SRAM cassettes with no problem (with either SRAM or Shimano chains of misc. levels).  Usually an adjustment or old chain/new cassette wear issue.

2012-03-30 8:55 PM
in reply to: #4121747

User image

Master
2855
20005001001001002525
Kailua, Hawaii
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
Sprint_DA - 2012-03-31 3:38 PM
metafizx - 2012-03-30 8:25 PM

I'm going to dig into this problem a bit more, I'll let you know what I find out....

kinda of a mystery really, I had assumed the 6700 stuff was compatible.

I did find a few other forum posts on the net that alluded to this issue too...so others have experienced it.

Just not exactly sure why...

They are 100% compatible.  I use 7800 shifters with 6700, 6600, and SRAM cassettes with no problem (with either SRAM or Shimano chains of misc. levels).  Usually an adjustment or old chain/new cassette wear issue.

but whats strange is the 105 and DA cassetter work fine. other than a possible defective 6700 cassette, I have no idea what it would be.

2012-03-31 1:04 PM
in reply to: #4121701

Regular
408
100100100100
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

I frequently change wheels and cassettes on my bikes.  In most cases I do not have to adjust the rear derailleur.  But as has been mentioned in some cases you need the spacer and other cases you do not.  Generally Shimano spacer and SRAM not.  But I have found this to not always be consistent.  Have you for sure checked this?

 

I have also collected spacers that vary in thickness a tiny bit.  I was able to get them from my LBS.  I honestly do not know where you get them otherwise.  I keep track of which spacer with which cassette with which wheel.

I am embarrass to mention something else to consider as I did it once.  I had interchanged a 10 speed and 9 speed cassette.  After I worked for a while trying to get it to work I brought it into the LBS.  Wow was that embarrassing.  But I now will never make that mistake again.

If you can get it to work with the spacer it is a lot easier when switching wheels.  You really do not want to have to adjust on wheel changes.  If you are like me you use your training wheels and then switch to race wheel for races.  It is a huge hassle to have to then adjust rear derailleur before a race.  Worst is bringing it into the LBS if you don't adjust yourself.

BTW, the adjustments are actually extremelly easy once you invest some time to learn.

 

Also, I have never had a problem interchanging cassettes, as long as same number of speeds, of different brands.  They are compatible.  I mix SRAM and Shimano components all the time.  Chains, deraileurs, cassettes and had zero compatibility issues.  I am willing to bet that is not the issue.  I have mixed Force, Red, Utegra and Dura Ace without issue.

 

 

 

   



Edited by bartturner 2012-03-31 1:11 PM
2012-03-31 2:13 PM
in reply to: #4121407


209
100100
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

With a new cassette I would put on a new chain.  It is also handy to have a bunch of thin spacers if you don't want to adjust the rear derailer.  I use them but I am running an older setup.

 

2012-03-31 2:13 PM
in reply to: #4121407


209
100100
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue

With a new cassette I would put on a new chain.  It is also handy to have a bunch of thin spacers if you don't want to adjust the rear derailer.  I use them but I am running an older setup.

 



2012-03-31 4:23 PM
in reply to: #4121407

User image

Champion
16151
50005000500010001002525
Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
Follow graceful Dave's advice. 100% correct. This is a wear issue, not an incompatibility issue. Check the alignment as he describes. That's the exact approach.
2012-05-08 5:06 PM
in reply to: #4121722

User image

Master
2855
20005001001001002525
Kailua, Hawaii
Subject: RE: New Cassette Issue
metafizx - 2012-03-31 3:25 PM

I'm going to dig into this problem a bit more, I'll let you know what I find out....

kinda of a mystery really, I had assumed the 6700 stuff was compatible.

I did find a few other forum posts on the net that alluded to this issue too...so others have experienced it.

Just not exactly sure why...

 

following up on an old thread.

changed my chain today, and noticed significant stretch, almost a full link comparing the old chaing to new chain.

pretty sure this is culprit to the noisy drivetrain issue.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » New Cassette Issue Rss Feed