Is a power tap worth the investment
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2012-09-16 9:22 AM |
Member 76 | Subject: Is a power tap worth the investment Thinking about buying a power tap to help with my training for next years. I am a middle of the pack guy just trying to improve my time. so should I spend the money on a power tap or stick with HR training. Thanks |
|
2012-09-16 9:32 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Regular 847 Akron | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment YES!!!!! |
2012-09-16 9:37 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Extreme Veteran 875 Issaquah | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment I have had my powertap for exactly a year now and I can honestly say it was the best money I have spent on triathlon, even more so that the actual tri bike. My vote goes to the PT. |
2012-09-16 10:09 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Champion 5529 Nashville, TN | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment Yes. But the purchase is only half of how to improve. You need to understand how to analyze your data and build programs to get the desired results. Otherwise it is just an expensive toy. Two resources: Training and Racing with a Power Meter & Triathlete's Guide to Power
|
2012-09-16 3:53 PM in reply to: #4413315 |
Veteran 247 Irvine | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment So full disclosure....I don't have a Powertap but would like to get one....however, I've gone from middle of pack to top 1-2% overall on the bike in my events by just training hard over the past 9 months. I've followed Joe Friel's "Your Best Triathlon" book, and the plan inside it...along with reading and implementing some specific strength workouts, especially working hills. I'm not saying that a Powertap is not needed, but just know that I believe the value is in very good visibility into your level of effort. If you are/were a competitive athlete, you may naturally be able to go by "feel" to insure you are in a specific level of effort. The underlying key is to make hard workouts hard and easy workouts should be easy. Doing mostly moderate effort workouts will not yield the improvements you seek. |
2012-09-17 9:38 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment IMO only if you can affor a Quarq. I have wired, my husband has wireless. Neither of them are working. The Cyclops PT is a piece of crap. When I have posted this in the past I get a PM and others post on the thread that my issue is unique and all I have to do is contact Cyclops. We have sent back hubs, paid to have them rebuilt etc and they work for a few months. The computer eats batteries like candy. The back of my battery case is destroyed because we had to remove it every 3 weeks to replace the battery. The data is surely helpful if you take the time to analyze but then you become reliant on the data with a very unreliable product. |
|
2012-09-17 9:55 AM in reply to: #4413338 |
Expert 1164 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment ADollar79 - 2012-09-16 11:09 AM Yes. But the purchase is only half of how to improve. You need to understand how to analyze your data and build programs to get the desired results. Otherwise it is just an expensive toy. Two resources: Training and Racing with a Power Meter & Triathlete's Guide to Power
This right here is the only proper response. No need in buying expensive equipment if you do not know how to use it properly. |
2012-09-17 10:03 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
over a barrier | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment If you want to spend the time to understand power (or have a coach that works with you, that does) it can be a very powerful tool. The people that are data driven tend to thrive with power training, but its not for everyone. I've used power in triathlon, power tap since 2008, with no issues to the hub. Last season I added a powertap to my cyclocross wheel, that was a real eye opener (data wise). The power tap handled the mud and slop like a champ all season. Highly recommend the product if you take the time to download rides / review etc |
2012-09-18 5:20 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Elite 3658 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment What part of your training do you think a PT would help you with? A PT will help you know what you did and it will help you do the correct workout, but it doesn't make up for things like a poor plan or lack of miles. |
2012-09-18 7:32 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Veteran 561 Arden Hills, MN | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment I have a quarq, my wife has a wireless PT we're both very happy with our respective choices. Agree with the main points the others have made. It can be worth it if you take the time to understand how to properly use it and you're the type who enjoys digging into the data. It absolutely is not necessary though - plenty of really fast dudes and dudettes out there who train only by RPE/HR. Key to getting faster is training more and training smarter - this can be accomplished with or without a PM. |
2012-09-18 8:46 AM in reply to: #4414352 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment KeriKadi - 2012-09-17 10:38 AM IMO only if you can affor a Quarq. I have wired, my husband has wireless. Neither of them are working. The Cyclops PT is a piece of crap. When I have posted this in the past I get a PM and others post on the thread that my issue is unique and all I have to do is contact Cyclops. We have sent back hubs, paid to have them rebuilt etc and they work for a few months. The computer eats batteries like candy. The back of my battery case is destroyed because we had to remove it every 3 weeks to replace the battery. The data is surely helpful if you take the time to analyze but then you become reliant on the data with a very unreliable product. First, your experience stinks for sure. I would hope that CycleOps steps up and fixes things for you. That said, I'll echo the PMs and other posts you have seen. My (wired) PT is still working perfectly after 6+ years. I have not had to deal with CSRs about the PT, but have with my Cycleops fluid trainer. My experience was painless and they provided what I consider top-notch service. While your experience raises a red flag, numerous other stories I have heard about are more consistent with my experience. I would not hesistate to buy a PT again. In fact, it would still be my first choice among power meters. |
|
2012-09-18 10:45 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment I've had a PT for two years (training only, not used when I race), and very happy with it. One warning though -- I find that I train harder with the power meter than I otherwise would (chasing numbers), which has put me in holes that take time to get out of (ie., recover). Important to listen to your body, even when using a PM. Another caveat -- My best IM bike ride (relative to the field) occurred when training purely by RPE. So, while I prefer to use a PM, it hasn't made me much/any faster for my A races than I was when training by feel. |
2012-09-18 11:00 AM in reply to: #4414352 |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment In addition to what's already been written, I power because it gives a fixed point of reference. Yes you can train with HR but it doesn't show you how much progress you've made over time. Or flip that around -- when I was injured this year, I could see how much I lost off my normal power numbers.
KeriKadi - 2012-09-17 7:38 AM IMO only if you can affor a Quarq. I have wired, my husband has wireless. Neither of them are working. The Cyclops PT is a piece of crap. When I have posted this in the past I get a PM and others post on the thread that my issue is unique and all I have to do is contact Cyclops. We have sent back hubs, paid to have them rebuilt etc and they work for a few months. The computer eats batteries like candy. The back of my battery case is destroyed because we had to remove it every 3 weeks to replace the battery. The data is surely helpful if you take the time to analyze but then you become reliant on the data with a very unreliable product. This sounds like two different issues. You can use your choice of computer with the ANT+ wireless PT, same as Quarq. I can't speak for the LYC but I've used the Joule 2.0 and a Garmin 310xt with no issues. As for the PT hubs, they will eat alkaline batteries in a couple weeks just like you said, but the silver oxide batteries last me a year or so. The battery packaging usually isn't obvious which kind it is unless you read the fine print, so beware of that. |
2012-09-18 5:39 PM in reply to: #4413315 |
Regular 847 Akron | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment Just did some intervals in the trainer.compared to the last time I tested myself I just saw a huge improvement.if u use an indoor trainer a pt is the way to go if u want to see results or like the post above...a decrease.its a great way to measure! Edited by SEADOCHA 2012-09-18 5:41 PM |
2012-09-20 8:52 PM in reply to: #4413315 |
Veteran 249 | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment wanna race - 2012-09-16 9:22 AM Thinking about buying a power tap to help with my training for next years. I am a middle of the pack guy just trying to improve my time. so should I spend the money on a power tap or stick with HR training. Thanks Power is FOR SURE worth the investment. And I can't think of a single reason to buy a powertap instead of a Quarq. |
2012-09-21 8:54 AM in reply to: #4421335 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment Power is FOR SURE worth the investment. And I can't think of a single reason to buy a powertap instead of a Quarq. I'll start with one: Price There's more, though. All the systems available have their plusses and minuses. Figure out which things are more important to you and you'll find the power meter best fit for you. |
|
2012-09-21 9:14 AM in reply to: #4417481 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment I realize not everyone will agree with this, but... IMO, a PM doesn't provide much benefit when used with a trainer. I've been using a Kurt Kinetic trainer since before I got my PT and still use it without the PT. On a decent trainer, speed is a very good stand-in for watts. The mapping between the two isn't linear, but it's close enough around FTP for government work. (Situation would be different if you were working on maximizing power during short bursts.) For outside riding the situation is completely different, of course. Just my two cents! |
2012-09-21 2:01 PM in reply to: #4421782 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment JohnnyKay - 2012-09-21 8:54 AM Power is FOR SURE worth the investment. And I can't think of a single reason to buy a powertap instead of a Quarq. I'll start with one: Price There's more, though. All the systems available have their plusses and minuses. Figure out which things are more important to you and you'll find the power meter best fit for you. Agreed. And I'm very happy with my Quarq. |
2012-09-22 6:54 AM in reply to: #4421819 |
Elite 3658 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment wiky - 2012-09-21 10:14 AM I realize not everyone will agree with this, but... IMO, a PM doesn't provide much benefit when used with a trainer. I've been using a Kurt Kinetic trainer since before I got my PT and still use it without the PT. On a decent trainer, speed is a very good stand-in for watts. The mapping between the two isn't linear, but it's close enough around FTP for government work. (Situation would be different if you were working on maximizing power during short bursts.) For outside riding the situation is completely different, of course. Just my two cents!
For me it was the exact opposite. I wasn't pushing hard enough on the trainer before I got the PM. A good bit of my problem was a lack of fans to help me stay cool, but I was also not going hard enough. I see your point about using speed, and could probably switch to that now. |
2012-09-22 7:28 AM in reply to: #4423154 |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment brown_dog_us - 2012-09-22 7:54 AM wiky - 2012-09-21 10:14 AM I realize not everyone will agree with this, but... IMO, a PM doesn't provide much benefit when used with a trainer. I've been using a Kurt Kinetic trainer since before I got my PT and still use it without the PT. On a decent trainer, speed is a very good stand-in for watts. The mapping between the two isn't linear, but it's close enough around FTP for government work. (Situation would be different if you were working on maximizing power during short bursts.) For outside riding the situation is completely different, of course. Just my two cents!
For me it was the exact opposite. I wasn't pushing hard enough on the trainer before I got the PM. A good bit of my problem was a lack of fans to help me stay cool, but I was also not going hard enough. I see your point about using speed, and could probably switch to that now. I'm with you. After getting my PT I learned just how hard I wasn't training on the bike. I have also learned how to really push myself. I know that without the power meter those fourth and fifth intervals would have a significant drop off. Now I look at the meter and even though my legs are screaming for mercy, I do what I can to hit my numbers. This has got to make me stronger in the long run. I have been told that for racing, have a power meter is like cheating, only it is legal On race day, you will be nicely tapered and feel like a million bucks. If you are going on RPE there is a resonable likelihood that you can overcook the first half of the bike and you don't realize what you have done to yourself until it is too late. With the power meter you are doing the opposite of what I described in training. Your legs will probably feel like they can push way more power. If you are smart and follow your scheduled power plan, you will hit the second half of the bike, and the run, with your legs feeling good enough to have a great race. Very useful training and racing tool in my opinion. Could I train and race without it? Sure. Am I better with it? I think so...... Of course Wiki's results suggest that what he is doing is working just fine |
2012-09-22 7:55 AM in reply to: #4413315 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment I can see where it would be motivating to know exactly what power each speed corresponds to on trainer. Sometimes such 'mental' factors are as important as anything else when we're probing the pain cave. |
|
2012-09-22 10:07 PM in reply to: #4423188 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Is a power tap worth the investment Also consider that speed goes up by a curve on a number of trainers (in relation to an output). Not a straight line. Smaller changes in speed when going faster can be rather significant differences in power. Going from something like 24.x mph to 30 mph on mine literally takes twice the power to do. On a smaller scale, I can see 30 watts (or a bit more) difference for some intervals when there is less than 1 mph change. I want to say 50 is possible, but that would just be winging it. Anyway, that's a very significant difference. The power values I get also translate to outside well. Others may have to scale it a little, but you still have something to go with. And even with all that, it's still a tool. I use it to push in training, and more as a guide to RPE when racing. Not everyone needs that. |