Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 53)

MIKE - I've had good success with A.R.T. and following the resultant prescribed strengthening and stretches resolving any injuries I've had. Hope you have good luck

Despite overwhelming odds: cold, rainy evening, lacrosse game closing my favorite local track, I did my 10x400s @ 5K pace. The running surface went from asphalt to concrete, back to asphalt, , back to concrete, to fine gravel, to big ankle-turner gravel and back to asphalt. Whew. Can't believe I didn't turn an ankle. It's in the books. A 3 mile pace run on Saturday will fill out a 25-mile week. Follow that up with 12 miles on Sunday, and I will officially be on taper! Can't wait.

MIKE -

Check-plus on that test passed!  Now,as my sports doctor would probably say to me were I in your situation -- "feather" your overall run training so you don't leap and bound into another setback.  And this si a guy who was a national-calibre runner in his prime, and who is the traveling doctor with many Canadian national teams when they travel abroad -- not one of those who would say "STOP RUNNING!!!"

I can no longer do bonafide speedwork, as it is about 75% certain to set off Achilles and/or PF problems.  So, I make-do with tempo running, which is kind of what it sounds like you did that third mile in.  I can do lengthy tempo runs at high footspeed cadences without bugging anything, but those "pick-ups" and suchlike bring too much tension (??) on Achilles and PF.  C'est la vie.

As for ART and Graston -- YES!!  Well, I can wholeheartedly say that about ART, but i ahve never fully subjected myself to Graston.  My PF, who is a grand ART person, once played around with Graston on me.......and it wasn't any too pleasant.  that said, though, if all I had at hand was a Graston person, i would subject myself to it.

I feel your pain (possibly "humiliation"??) about the Masters group, especially when it comes to kick sets.  I did a few months of Masters maybe back in '01, and the kicksets were my sworn enemy.  It's one thing to know one has a lousy kick.......but another thing altogether when it gets placed with all the other people kick-setting, too.  Sigh.

Finally, yes, give Sir Isaac a try.  I have been in Newtons since Nov '07, but never the Sir I; that came along in maybe '10.  The lugs on that model are definitely less pronounced than on the "standard" Newton models, so you run far less of a risk of getting too much midfoot or forefoot too early in the game.  It was a different Newton world back in '07, as they were preaching forefoot running with not much mention of midfoot, and in my enthusiasm to improve my running form I messed up my calves, which then produced significant PF problems.  But I stuck with them and have never looked back.

For you, if you can become more midfoot in your striking and do so with a slight forward lean, that might help your knees a huge amount.  The midfoot/forefoot technique maybe puts more stress on the calves, but the great trade-off there is that there is far less stress on the knees, hips and ankles.  At the outset with Newtons you may experience miserable calf soreness, but if you follow the Newton recommendations and transition gradually into them, you should be okay -- and you'll develop righteously ripped calves in the process!

For the record, the recoms are along the lines of (a) very short runs in new newtons at the beginning, and (b) alternate the Newtons with the previous model for several weeks.  So, it's not as if you can only do three one-mile runs a week, but you could plan on a couple of longer runs in your current shoes, and then a couple of small runs in the Newtons.  Lemme know how you find the Sir Isaacs, if you go that route!

DAVE -

10x400 at 5K pace tells me you are pretty much in mideseason form -- and it ain't even May yet.  So, huge congrats on the discipline you exhibited throughout the just-past off-season!!!

Have a good Sat/Sun -- and then BEHAVE yourself during the taper and actually TAPER!!!

Can I just say that I hate taper weeks.  Seriously.

I'm mid-taper this week for a 10k this weekend, having done my 12x400 big track week last week and pulled back to 6x400 yesterday, a 3 mile easy run later and a light swim today, a SINGLE mile (or so) tomorrow and nothing on Saturday.  Then a measly 10k Sunday (where I bury myself).

It's a bizarro world when racing becomes an impediment to the training I want to do!  No biking this week.  No intense swimming.  Barely any tempo, track or pace running.  AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

Dave, sorry if I missed it, but what are you running again?

Matt

ETA: sorry for the lazy question above - just went back and saw it clearly, so…  GOOD LUCK WITH THE PTT HM!!!  

Matt

MATT -

Yeah, I dig where you're coming from.  However, over the years I learned to value the taper weeks from a couple of different perspectives: (1) when my training was intense and I truly needed the easy taper week, and (2) when i began to have enough data to demonstrate that the taper weeks led to better race results. 

As you might imagine, the second one carried more weight than the first, which roughly (maybe not so roughly after all) reflects your cooment about racing becoming an impedimaent to the desired training.  That is, I accepted the intensity of the training, so it took me longer to realize the need for decent down time.  And FWIW, i also took me a long time to get real about "down-weeks" every 3 or 4 weeks or so.  Even when former coach Erik PRESCRIBED them........I was reticent to accept and follow them. 

Also FWIW, I think you had a good-smart week of work leading up to a 10K in which you plan to bury yourself.   The single mile toady will hepl maintain some semblance of sanity, as did the easy swim, while Wednesday's double-run effort is a good way to claoe down the bonafide training for Sunday.  So, chill contentedly -- you've earned it!

Yeah, it's funny, but I really did need this down week (probably will be my lightest week of the past 52).  My legs were feeling so toasty that it felt more like recovering from a HM or marathon after each of the last 2 weekends (probably my 2 biggest weeks of the past 52, for comparison).

I thought I'd spring back and be ready to go long and hard by Tuesday, but while I don't like the inactivity of the week, I can feel that I really did need a much lower volume week to soak up the efforts.  My legs are slowly coming back under me and feeling bouncier again.  It's a wierd mentality that creeps in when you feel like you're instantly going backwards if you're not working out a ton - even after reading a hundred times that recovery is when you get faster!

Funny how knowing something and acting on that knowledge can be so far divorced from one another.  It's not particularly rational, but neither is s/b/r if no one is chasing you. 

I hear you.  My kids took video of me last weekend at the pool (including underwater).  WOW, do I stink...

So, I'm going to go about learning to swim again, after >4 decades doing so.  

I can't tell if I'm a bit bummed at being so ugly a swimmer, or super-excited that I think I have something on which I can so dramatically (if not easily, I understand) improve.

Sounds like you're well on your way!

On another note, the 10k we're running tomorrow is also the national masters' championship for USATF.  On registering, I entered my USATF number (and checked no other boxes or anything), cuz it asked…  Today we picked up our numbers, and - wait for it - I am running in the national championship.

OK, so I get a second number to pin on my back (so everyone can see that they're passing someone from the Masters' race!) - yay.  But, it means I go off from a separate corral, start 3 minutes earlier than the open race, can't stay with Kim in the starting corral and will be passed by all the fast open runners from behind!

Ugh - not what I was shooting for (I didn't even know about the race - just showed up and they informed me that I was in the championship.  Clearly a high bar to qualify for this one, thank you very much!).  Kind of messed up    I'll make the most of it and soak up what it feels like to be a REAL runner… at least until the gun goes off.  Then… 

Ha!

Matt

MATT -

Jeez.  The Ramble started about 10 hours ago; why the delay on results??  Maybe they have to check and double-check timing stuff due to it being a USATF Nat Champ, but still -- I wanna see those results!!!

More later, but for now I'll just sneak a quick comment in about your comment to DAVE about him being well on his way with the swim.  He is a awesome swimmer, far and away the best one who has graced my various metor groups......and it is slightly scary that he could be tapping into new resources and information that will make him even better.  As it is, he's one of those fishies who does 1500m in about 20 minutes, if I remember correctly.  EAT MY HEART OUT!!!!!!!

Sorry for the delay in results on the JJ 10k!  I know you were all waiting with baited breath... 

I had a fantastic run - was able to totally bury myself and finish JUST in time to not blow up (another seventeen inches, or so, and I would have dropped).

I ran a 42:40 official, which is by far my best 10k time.  Beats the last time I ran it (1996, when I was 27) by almost exactly 5 minutes, and my most recent 10k time trial (on my own - tough to push on these like you can at a race) a couple months ago by nearly 4 minutes.  Very happy with those results, as my run is starting to feel good!

Kim did even better (on a sex/age group adjusted basis).  She ran right about 49:00 even and beat her previous best (1996 JJ was the last time either of us ran a 10k race) by well over 12 minutes. 

I was 18/20 in my age group for the Masters - and I was actually happy with that (they were FAST) and would have been 11th in my AG in the open field.  Kim was 8th out of 163 in her AG!

So, while the Masters are aptly named, and I was there by virtue of a clerical mishap, it was a fantastic day (sunny, TWO beer tents from Harpoon, beautiful company and thousands of people) and race.

I wrote a non-results-y take on my "Accidental Masters Racing" in TT (probably should have put that into a RR, but I haven't figured those out yet... guess I should, huh?) for those who are interested...

Thanks for the nudge to write this!  I would have yesterday, but when we got back from the race, I had to plant just under 100 bushes in the way-back-yard!  Now THAT will make your legs and back sore... 

Matt

I really need to learn how to swim!  All these fast feesh around...

That's it, I'm calling a coach - right now. 

Nicely done!!

Matt

Congrats! That's a great time for the 1650. Your 50 split is good too.

MATT -

ACK!  That comment two nights ago was NOT addressed at you, but rather at the race website where the results were NOT delivered in a "timely fashion" -- IMHO.

HOWEVER!!!!!  Once again you showed the sweet fruits of your off-season labors by way of putting up a terrific time; yowzers!    I haven't done the equivalence math of it vs the H-M, but my quick calculations say that the two times are comparable with the distance difference factored in, which telss me that you are very consistent and/or excellent at pacing.  Whichever, that time sure bodes well for the later-in-the-season oly, and now you have lots of time to work in that 10K speed with serious cycling efforts.  i dare say you are in prime position now to be able to run really well off the bike when the oly presents itself!

Congrats to Kim, too; not a bad day for the elder 405 of the McManus Clan!  And again -- that really wasn't a nudge to you to write something, as sometimes the spirit just isn't there so soon after a race.  in fact, over the years, my longest gaps between a race and writing about have come when i have done well; guess I need time to bask uninterruptedly.

What's next, oh fast-footed one?!? 

BEN -

With you now joining DAVE and DOUG as swimmers to reckon with, we just about have a bonafide school of you fishies.  That is a sensational time, as for me I would be ecstatic beyond belief if I did 1650 in even 30 minutes.  And, lemme guess -- you posted that sweet time sans wetsuit, yes?   Mercy!

No worries!  It was a bit irritating that they took so long with the results.  They didn't even have the masters results up by 2pm AT the race, and we had to leave to get back to rescue Grandma from the kids (and even the open results were screwy - had the net time as much longer than the gun-time, which was close to, but not the, actual net time).  All good, though, once settled!

We have the HM on Memorial Day, but I've decided to be pace booty for Kim, and I'm psyched to enjoy a VERY crowded, but hopefully awesome, fast training run (our paces are different by just enough that I'll be able to get a great workout and still enjoy it).  A part of me itches to try to go 1:35 in the HM, as I think I could hit that this race, but most of me realizes that I need to now hammer the bike (and figure out how to swim) for the summer tri season.

To an earlier dillema on season scheduling, I've decided to bag the 148 mile ride and just focus on tri's for the summer/early fall, specifically the Oly distance (OK, and a few sprints... and I'm not ruling out or in a HIM bid in the Fall if I feel like a rock star).  Kim's entire family is in OH that weekend for a memorial/reunion for her ggma (97 years young when she recently passed), and I'd rather do that than ride around looking for beer all day (tough to rationalize THAT choice, if I did!).  Plus, that let's us race one of our favorites - a Dad's Day 5-miler in Shaker Heights - and let's me focus on Oly specific riding...  All good!

Lastly, all this talk of swimming got in my head.  This morning I went to the gym to do a short 'mill run in my Newtons and further break break-in my calves shoes, finishing up in my Brooks, then hop in the pool.  Did 0.5 miles and switched shoes, changed lacing pattern and tightness, but had a sharp pain on the top of my foot, so had to bail.  I am now fully in freaked out mode, but I suspect it's just from too tight lacing at the race Sunday.  I'll know in a day or so.

So, I went to the pool and did my 250 warmup (in my new Tyr goggles and jammers - doesn't take much to make me happy, but proper fitting goggles and jammers that aren't see through do the trick!).  Was thinking about all the swimming I've been reading about here and SBR Utopia that I decided to just go through to 1,500 yds (not m) without stopping and see what that looked like.  It wasn't TT pace (still had gas in the tank, as it were), but managed 25:27.  Then did 5x100 at 1:24 (had me huffing like a steam engine).  Tricky, this swimming pretty stuff!

Much improved from last Fall when we did our couple sprints, so I'm hopeful that with some effort my swim will not be a significant limiter this year.

Now for a big bike block.  I haven't done any formal intervals in months, but my NP is staying in the 230's over a couple hours, and I'm now about 35 pounds lighter than last April, so again hopeful (but aware that I need to do some power work).

All in, the what's next answer is:  figure out how to maximize the next 11.5 weeks until my first Oly!  We're going to take a week for a family vacation on Nantucket following the race (also in Nantucket, obviously), so I'm getting really excited.

Oh, and I just bought a tri-bike, too.  2009 P2C, with a few used wheels (sub9, set of 404s and a front 808 to match my rear - all tubies).  Now I have wheels for my road and tri bikes - for about half of what a new tri only rig with one set of wheels would run!  As long as the condition is good, I love used stuff... 

PHEW, that was a long one, even for me!!!

Hope to see you all out there soon.

Matt

I'm with ya, Steve...that's my "being chased by sharks" pace.

Speaking of swimming...I've almost fully recovered from my neck/scapula issues and I've been getting in 1500-1800 yard workouts lately.  Given I have tri's on back-to-back weekends with swims of 400M and 1KM respectively, what should I be focusing on in my sets?  I've been doing a bunch of 120s lately (temp pool is 20y) on 2:30 at about a 1:45/100 pace...hoping to maintain that pace in the shorter tri and go about 1:55 in the 1K.  I can swim the longer distance non-stop comfortably at an easy pace.

Oh, and I think my Newtons experiment is an epic failure...two runs of a total of 1.2 miles and my heels hurt.  Not my calves or thighs, my heels.  Nothing terrible but I think I may not be meant for "natural running."

The natural running thing is anything but, at least for most people that learned to run more than a couple years ago and less than when humans invented shoes.

I actually started the transition before going to Newtons.  Worked on cadence last fall, footfall under my hip over the winter and went from a 12mm to an 8mm drop shoe before ever even buying the Newtons.  That said, I'm still working my way into them slooooowly...

Forgive me if you've posted this, but do you know about what your cadence is?

I think they take a while for most people, even when you do it all right (or you get hurt, which is not the intent!).

Matt

I've only been able to lurk for awhile but now our company is gone.  I lost a week of running but I did get in some good rides and swims over the last week or so. 

Reading everyone else's recent swimming I'm not sure I feel worthy to swim with the fishies here.  I did however do some fast 100m sets today and I swam my first sub 2:00 for 100m (1:58).  My times were all consistent times right around 2:00/100m.  During the sets I had to increase the time between the swimmer ahead of me because I was catching up. 

Last year we couldn't get into our lake until late June but this year we're hoping we might get in for an OWS in 3 weeks or so (as soon as it hits 60F).

On the bike I've been riding a 13km circle route that gives me two good hill climbs and two good descents.  With two or three repeats it makes for a pretty good/intense workout.  I've done it 5 times around.  I can't say I'm faster but it does seem to be getting easier.

Coming up I have the Bare Bones Duathlon (5K/34K/5K, May 11th) that I chickened out on last year.  I was hoping I'd be faster by this year but my training suggests I'm exactly where I was last year.  I'm entering it anyway.  They want everyone to be finished by 2:30 but there is no cut off time so I'm aiming to finish in time but it will be tight and I may be last.

Last isn't a problem - it means you're out there racing!

I wouldn't be surprised if you surprise yourself.  Putting in consistent work is the first and most important part of training - the speed will come as a result (and you can't focus on speed until you have consistency nailed).

So, those loops on the bike and the time in the pool and on the road will pay off this season.  I'm not one of the speedy fish, and this time last year I was swimming 2 minutes per hundred, as well.  But my times have slowly improved… Just takes time in the pool (on the saddle, on the asphalt, etc.).  

Good luck, and I'm glad to hear that you're giving it a go!  Let us know the results!!

Matt

@GEORGE - right around 2:00 for 100 repeats in the pool is nothing to sneeze at...there are tons of folks on this site that would love to get there!!  That seems to be a point where it starts to "click" for many folks.  I'm not quite saying I've "clicked" , but once I broke 2 min on 100s and could consistently repeat that is when I was able to add more distance and faster intervals.  I still don't qualify as one of the fishes, though.    My 100y repeats are usually in the 1:42-1:45 range on 2:00 or 2:05 or something like that.

@MATT - yeah, I think I posted about my cadence way back when we first started this group and it was one of the main topics.  Right now, I "blindly" run in the high 70s at my Z1/Z2 pace/HR, and can force it to the low 80s if I concentrate (but not on the treadmill...way too awkward).  Keep in mind I'm 6'4" so there a lotta leg movin' around.  Once I pace up to 10K race pace I'm low/mid 80s comfortably.  Note that I used to run in the low/mid 70s, so I've made some progress but I'm nowhere near 90.  As for the natural running transition...I'm thinking maybe a lower drop, more neutral regular shoe would be better.  Or alternatively, maybe I shouldn't be trying this nonsense mid-season. 

Dave - I did see your comments on Infinit and I had forgotten it so I appreciate you posted it again for me.

Matt - I'm not expecting any surprises for Bare Bones but I'm sure you're right about the value of consistency.  I do like to see any signs of improvement.  I looked at last year's results out of curiosity and there were 4 people who went over 2:30 with the last person at 2:42. 

Mike - Thanks for the swim encouragement.  I like the idea that things might be clicking as I've kind of plateau'd for quite awhile.  My swim coach was quite enthusiastic about my times yesterday.

Now I'm looking forward to swimming again and a long slow run.

It takes some practice. Not entirely sure if Newtons are fully "natural" with the forefoot lugs, but they are a flatter profile than most. I run most everything now in various types of Altra shoes, with 0mm drop. Came from a couple years of using 4mm Kinvaras. With both switches, it did take some time to relearn the landing a bit. Especially with the Kinvaras, everything was way shorter and way easier than normal distance and effort. "Shorter" may have been 1/4-1/2 a mile early on. "Easier" may have been a couple min/mile slower than normal easy for that too. I didn't always try to add on every single run either. Kind of like a running plan itself, you don't just run x amount more every day, but up and down from day to day. And over time the trend can increase.

I also ran a bit on the treadmill as it was more forgiving. I can feel things happening on there, but it's not a catastrophic feeling if I miss. It can take several months to be really used to them, maybe longer to be fully so.

Do know that I'm 6'3" and can generally move my cadence wherever I want it to when spot checking for fun. I mostly just try to keep a light-on-my-feet feeling though, and let the number be what it is.

I had a modest swim today then I went out at 1:00pm planning a long slow run for 1:45 which was to be my longest run to date and I anticipated I'd have to do a lot of walking to finish.  I was intending to run for 7.5min/walk for 1.5min and see where I got.

I expected to slow down dramatically as I fatigued but I was really surprised to find my paces stayed pretty consistent and my 2nd to last running interval was my fastest at 9.3kph (5.78mph).  Even my last walk interval was my fastest at 6.7kph (4.16mph).  I did walk a bit more on the 2nd half of the run.

In the end I ran 14K (by far my longest run) in 1:48.  I managed to keep to my 7.5/1.5 run walk for the first 60 minutes but after that I had to guess at my time intervals.  The whole route was uphill and downhill with no flat areas to speak of.  My total climbing was 272m (892').

After the run I walked into Okanagan Lake - up to my knees.  The coolness felt good but it will be awhile before it warms up enough to swim in.

Three hour bike ride planned for tomorrow.  Nothing fast.

10 minute PR at the Pittsburgh HM today.

I was hoping to be under 1:50, and I came in at 1:44:16. Was a little aggressive in pacing at the beginning but was mostly able to hold on at the end. It's hard to tell if pace slipped more because of fatigue or more due to the huge hill someone maliciously put at the end of the course. Overall happy with the effort and to Hal Higdon for training me up.