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2012-11-10 8:26 AM

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Expert
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Johns Creek, Georgia
Subject: Republicans and Abortion

It's not going to be a rant, rather a fix to the issue going forward I hope.  I'm a republocan in the sense of fiscal policy.  How can we though, as Republicans stand for less intrusive government and then tell women what to do with their own body.  I think this is the ultmate intrusion in any sense. On abortion, I feel it is morraly wrong but that's my opinion, it should not take government to manage this.  What I think as a man on this issue in fact should only be limited to me and my spouse and in that case I'm outnumbered 1 to 1.  In fact as a party we need to back away from this issue if we wish to go forward as a viable strong party!  We keep getting cornered on this one isue so many times and most Republicans I talk with agree, it's a moral issue not a party or government issue.

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.  But as a party I think the main issue going forward is reducing defict spending, cutting some programs, and reducing taxes.  I see the Democratic party as moving towards socialism and for females if you are worried about government intrusion regarding your body, well, let's just see how the next 4 years goes.  I hope better.

Yeah baby, let's crank it up today, rips and rants welcome but before you tear into me, read paragraph 1 again!



2012-11-10 8:35 AM
in reply to: #4492816

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
hrliles - 2012-11-10 8:26 AM

It's not going to be a rant, rather a fix to the issue going forward I hope.  I'm a republocan

. Must be a new political party branched off from the Tea Party.
...then tell women what to do with their own body...
Uhhhh, you don't.
2012-11-10 8:39 AM
in reply to: #4492816

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Veteran
446
10010010010025
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
hrliles - 2012-11-10 8:26 AM

It's not going to be a rant, rather a fix to the issue going forward I hope.  I'm a republocan in the sense of fiscal policy.  How can we though, as Republicans stand for less intrusive government and then tell women what to do with their own body.  I think this is the ultmate intrusion in any sense. On abortion, I feel it is morraly wrong but that's my opinion, it should not take government to manage this.  What I think as a man on this issue in fact should only be limited to me and my spouse and in that case I'm outnumbered 1 to 1.  In fact as a party we need to back away from this issue if we wish to go forward as a viable strong party!  We keep getting cornered on this one isue so many times and most Republicans I talk with agree, it's a moral issue not a party or government issue.

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.  But as a party I think the main issue going forward is reducing defict spending, cutting some programs, and reducing taxes.  I see the Democratic party as moving towards socialism and for females if you are worried about government intrusion regarding your body, well, let's just see how the next 4 years goes.  I hope better.

Yeah baby, let's crank it up today, rips and rants welcome but before you tear into me, read paragraph 1 again!

I agree with you.

2012-11-10 8:56 AM
in reply to: #4492816

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Champion
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500010002525
Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
The ultimate intrusion into someone's life is TAKING their life, male or female. That is the ultimate violation of privacy.

I've always believed in the simple philosophy that one person's rights end where another's begins. And certainly one person's "right to privacy" does not take higher priority than someone else's right to life.

The abortion issue always boils down to the simple question of when life begins-- some think it's at birth, others believe it's conception. I believe it's the latter, and I understand that others disagree. But like any firm belief, it's really not a negotiable issue for either side. One doesn't simply compromise a firm belief in the same way one can make concessions on tax policy.

Is it the government's job to "manage" abortion? Well, is it the government's job to prevent murder (even the ones that don't directly impact me or my family)? Yeah, that's why we have police and a judicial system. If I believe life begins at conception (and I do), then an act that that takes that life is by definition murder and needs to be regarded as such.

As for political realities, I have no idea. If you believe polls, abortion is an issue that evenly divides the nation. But the Democrats have always been able to exploit the issue far more to their advantage.




Edited by scoobysdad 2012-11-10 8:58 AM
2012-11-10 8:58 AM
in reply to: #4492816

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Champion
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Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
Good luck with that. From what I've been reading, many people agree with you. With extreme conservatism and siding with a Tea party style platform and rhetoric, the Republicans have alienated themselves from exactly what you profess. Howeve, many feel eh didn't do this strongly enough and doubling down on fear and fundamentalism will make the Republicans stronger.

I agree that a more centrist, fiscally focused Republican party is more appealing and viable.

FWIW: I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat and Liberal.
2012-11-10 9:06 AM
in reply to: #4492816

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Expert
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North Cackalacky
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
You know what I think?

I think it's Saturday.

Take a break, everybody.


2012-11-10 9:55 AM
in reply to: #4492816

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
hrliles - 2012-11-10 9:26 PM

 I'm a republocan in the sense of fiscal policy.  How can we though, as Republicans stand for less intrusive government and then tell women what to do with their own body.

People who want less government, including not having government tell women what to do with their own bodies, are called Libertarians.

2012-11-10 9:55 AM
in reply to: #4492839

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Bronze member
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion

scoobysdad - 2012-11-10 8:56 AM The ultimate intrusion into someone's life is TAKING their life, male or female. That is the ultimate violation of privacy. I've always believed in the simple philosophy that one person's rights end where another's begins. And certainly one person's "right to privacy" does not take higher priority than someone else's right to life. The abortion issue always boils down to the simple question of when life begins-- some think it's at birth, others believe it's conception. I believe it's the latter, and I understand that others disagree. But like any firm belief, it's really not a negotiable issue for either side. One doesn't simply compromise a firm belief in the same way one can make concessions on tax policy. Is it the government's job to "manage" abortion? Well, is it the government's job to prevent murder (even the ones that don't directly impact me or my family)? Yeah, that's why we have police and a judicial system. If I believe life begins at conception (and I do), then an act that that takes that life is by definition murder and needs to be regarded as such. As for political realities, I have no idea. If you believe polls, abortion is an issue that evenly divides the nation. But the Democrats have always been able to exploit the issue far more to their advantage.

I am not great at expressing myself on political topics and especially something as emotional as this one but here goes.

The term Pro-Choice has always been interesting to me because if the choice is death of the fetus then there really are no choices left at all.

If the choice is life there is a whole world of opportunities. Keep the baby or adoption and through adoption you can open up even more choices: choose the family then open or closed adoption, how often do you want to visit, or not visit at all, letters from adoptive family and the list goes on.

You know, there have been some events in my life that have shaped my feelings on this topic and when it comes time to vote I can not separate them. Adopting my two children for one thing and knowing that at least one of their birth mothers was taken to the abortion clinic 2 times but could not go through with it. Now this little life that was spared is singing and dancing in my house at this very minute.

So, I can not look at these little faces and do anything but vote for LIFE.

2012-11-10 10:00 AM
in reply to: #4492867

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Pro
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Parker, CO
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
trigal38 - 2012-11-10 8:55 AM

scoobysdad - 2012-11-10 8:56 AM The ultimate intrusion into someone's life is TAKING their life, male or female. That is the ultimate violation of privacy. I've always believed in the simple philosophy that one person's rights end where another's begins. And certainly one person's "right to privacy" does not take higher priority than someone else's right to life. The abortion issue always boils down to the simple question of when life begins-- some think it's at birth, others believe it's conception. I believe it's the latter, and I understand that others disagree. But like any firm belief, it's really not a negotiable issue for either side. One doesn't simply compromise a firm belief in the same way one can make concessions on tax policy. Is it the government's job to "manage" abortion? Well, is it the government's job to prevent murder (even the ones that don't directly impact me or my family)? Yeah, that's why we have police and a judicial system. If I believe life begins at conception (and I do), then an act that that takes that life is by definition murder and needs to be regarded as such. As for political realities, I have no idea. If you believe polls, abortion is an issue that evenly divides the nation. But the Democrats have always been able to exploit the issue far more to their advantage.

I am not great at expressing myself on political topics and especially something as emotional as this one but here goes.

The term Pro-Choice has always been interesting to me because if the choice is death of the fetus then there really are no choices left at all.

If the choice is life there is a whole world of opportunities. Keep the baby or adoption and through adoption you can open up even more choices: choose the family then open or closed adoption, how often do you want to visit, or not visit at all, letters from adoptive family and the list goes on.

You know, there have been some events in my life that have shaped my feelings on this topic and when it comes time to vote I can not separate them. Adopting my two children for one thing and knowing that at least one of their birth mothers was taken to the abortion clinic 2 times but could not go through with it. Now this little life that was spared is singing and dancing in my house at this very minute.

So, I can not look at these little faces and do anything but vote for LIFE.

Great post. Thanks for sharing.
2012-11-10 10:25 AM
in reply to: #4492816

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Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
Some great posts above. For the most part I think we are all pro choice. I believe in the choice to pro-create. I just believe that choice has been made when two people agree to have sex. Once that choice is made, sometimes pregnancy is the consequence. Don't have unprotected sex if you don't want to "deal" with a child. It is that simple.

Why are spotted owl eggs more protected than a human life (pre-birth)?

Now I know it gets more complicated when we talk about rape etc, but I'm not getting into that with this post.
2012-11-10 10:40 AM
in reply to: #4492867

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Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
trigal38 - 2012-11-10 9:55 AM

You know, there have been some events in my life that have shaped my feelings on this topic and when it comes time to vote I can not separate them. Adopting my two children for one thing and knowing that at least one of their birth mothers was taken to the abortion clinic 2 times but could not go through with it. Now this little life that was spared is singing and dancing in my house at this very minute.

So, I can not look at these little faces and do anything but vote for LIFE.

Beautiful post. Thank you.



2012-11-10 10:46 AM
in reply to: #4492867

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Pro
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Houston
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
trigal38 - 2012-11-10 9:55 AM

scoobysdad - 2012-11-10 8:56 AM The ultimate intrusion into someone's life is TAKING their life, male or female. That is the ultimate violation of privacy. I've always believed in the simple philosophy that one person's rights end where another's begins. And certainly one person's "right to privacy" does not take higher priority than someone else's right to life. The abortion issue always boils down to the simple question of when life begins-- some think it's at birth, others believe it's conception. I believe it's the latter, and I understand that others disagree. But like any firm belief, it's really not a negotiable issue for either side. One doesn't simply compromise a firm belief in the same way one can make concessions on tax policy. Is it the government's job to "manage" abortion? Well, is it the government's job to prevent murder (even the ones that don't directly impact me or my family)? Yeah, that's why we have police and a judicial system. If I believe life begins at conception (and I do), then an act that that takes that life is by definition murder and needs to be regarded as such. As for political realities, I have no idea. If you believe polls, abortion is an issue that evenly divides the nation. But the Democrats have always been able to exploit the issue far more to their advantage.

I am not great at expressing myself on political topics and especially something as emotional as this one but here goes.

The term Pro-Choice has always been interesting to me because if the choice is death of the fetus then there really are no choices left at all.

If the choice is life there is a whole world of opportunities. Keep the baby or adoption and through adoption you can open up even more choices: choose the family then open or closed adoption, how often do you want to visit, or not visit at all, letters from adoptive family and the list goes on.

You know, there have been some events in my life that have shaped my feelings on this topic and when it comes time to vote I can not separate them. Adopting my two children for one thing and knowing that at least one of their birth mothers was taken to the abortion clinic 2 times but could not go through with it. Now this little life that was spared is singing and dancing in my house at this very minute.

So, I can not look at these little faces and do anything but vote for LIFE.

Yes, yes, yes. Great posts.

What I have never understood is - if you are against abortion it is because you believe it is a life.  It is a life no matter what. It doesn't matter how it came to be, the heart is beating.

I used to be of the 'not for me but who am I to tell somebody else what to do' camp.

That changed when I saw my baby at 9 weeks gestation. 

I don't have a party because while I am very pro-life (for lack of a better name) I am pro-life across the board - I also do not believe in the death penalty. Who are we to take a life under any circumstances?  Never understood the 'save the babies but kill the bad guys'.  It is simply not our place.

Complicating matters further I am pro gay marriage and will never understand why anybody else cares what folks do in their own bedrooms between two (or more) consenting adults.

I need the anti-death live and let live party.

2012-11-10 10:48 AM
in reply to: #4492883

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Pro
4824
20002000500100100100
Houston
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion

bradword - 2012-11-10 10:25 AM Some great posts above. For the most part I think we are all pro choice. I believe in the choice to pro-create. I just believe that choice has been made when two people agree to have sex. Once that choice is made, sometimes pregnancy is the consequence. Don't have unprotected sex if you don't want to "deal" with a child. It is that simple. Why are spotted owl eggs more protected than a human life (pre-birth)? Now I know it gets more complicated when we talk about rape etc, but I'm not getting into that with this post.

Agree 100% but would take it even further and say don't have sex because BC can and does fail.  Trust me another baby is not in the cards/plan for us. We have 5, I am 43 and we have taken the necessary steps to prevent pregnancy but nothing other than removing a uterus is 100%.

2012-11-10 12:37 PM
in reply to: #4492816

Subject: ...
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2012-11-10 1:44 PM
in reply to: #4492816

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw



Edited by ChineseDemocracy 2012-11-10 2:11 PM
2012-11-10 1:55 PM
in reply to: #4493036

Champion
6056
500010002525
Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-10 1:44 PM

hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw




I've got an offer of my own. Take a pledge to not have sex unless you're willing to live with the consequences. In return, I'll give you a society that works better for EVERYONE.



2012-11-10 2:00 PM
in reply to: #4493036

Pro
6838
5000100050010010010025
Tejas
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-10 1:44 PM hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw

 Sorry CD. That is so far out there, it's silly. Kind of like me saying that those in love with UHC should be put on a list and billed for it instead making all of us pay for it. Heck, you all in for the Dem agenda? Sign em up and let them pay for it and let those against it pay nothing. That won't work will it? 

2012-11-10 2:07 PM
in reply to: #4493047

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
scoobysdad - 2012-11-10 2:55 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-10 1:44 PM hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw

I've got an offer of my own. Take a pledge to not have sex unless you're willing to live with the consequences. In return, I'll give you a society that works better for EVERYONE.

Yo Rich, you know pledges don't work.  Nothing will prevent people from engaging in irresponsible sexual behavior.  Am I condoning it?  Nope.  Am I being realistic?  I think so.  Unplanned pregnancies are going to happen.  With all the contraception out there, STD's, etc., you'd think that would be enough to prevent unplanned pregnancies from happening...but they aren't.  I think this is why a majority of Americans don't support outlawing abortion...irresponsible parents (on average) breed irresponsible future parents. 

has anybody checked out the Levitt clip I posted above?

 

2012-11-10 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4493036

Bronze member
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-10 1:44 PM hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw

Is this supposed to sound like a negative? I'm pretty sure I paid about 20 grand to get my name on a list to do just what you described . My son was born in birth mothers apartment then dropped off at CSS. Prenatal care was slim to none. I never gave a second thought to what kind of issues we might encounter. Is there a family that does not have issues? While we are no longer officially waiting to adopt another child, if my phone rang today about a baby needing a home you can be guaranteed that I would be happy to do this all over again.

 

 

2012-11-10 2:10 PM
in reply to: #4493053

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
mdg2003 - 2012-11-10 3:00 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-10 1:44 PM hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw

 Sorry CD. That is so far out there, it's silly. Kind of like me saying that those in love with UHC should be put on a list and billed for it instead making all of us pay for it. Heck, you all in for the Dem agenda? Sign em up and let them pay for it and let those against it pay nothing. That won't work will it? 

Of course it's silly...I apologize for not putting it in sarcasm font.  I thought it was so ridiculous, the sarcasm was obvious.  Sorry.

The point is, the folks who are so against abortion don't seem to see what the net results are when you ban abortions.  Bringing unwanted/unloved children into the world is a great idea if you can get them to families that want and love them.  It's a noble aim...but guess what?  There aren't enough homes that could take in all the unwanted kids.  Forcing women to raise kids they did not want in the first place is a recipe for disaster...again, see Levitt.

2012-11-10 2:18 PM
in reply to: #4493057

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
trigal38 - 2012-11-10 3:08 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-10 1:44 PM hrliles, I agree with the point you made...but this quote:  
<form action="/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp?action=postreply" method="post">

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.

That 1st point just isn't true...the 2nd one is debatable.  Step One:  appoint conservative SC Justices...Step Two, overturn roe v. wade.  once it's a states right issue with roe wade gone, those who can afford it will cross state lines to have it done...the poor won't, or will resort to back alley abortions.  

I've put the offer out there before, and I'll put it out there again...all the pro-life folks who want to end a woman's right to choose, I tell ya what, sign your name on the list.  We'll force all the girls and women getting pregnant to carry their fetuses full-term.  Once the kids are born, we randomly select a pro-life family off the list and require they raise the child.  Of course, we don't want to encourage any government dependency, so we'll make ya take the kid with no financial support from the government...of course, you'll likely have to deal with higher than average rates of "issues" as the girls/women having unplanned pregnancies tend not to have the greatest pre-natal care and/or desire to provide what's best for the fetus.  

I consider myself pro-life...pro quality of life.  To say folks who have unplanned pregnancies should have thought of being a parent before having unprotected sex just don't get it in my opinion.  Why are folks so insistent upon wanting to require people who behave irresponsibly or who are not ready to raise a child, to raise children?  (it's a rhetorical question...I respect non pro-choice folks' opinions...it's a free country, luckily the majority is pro-choice)  

Freakonomics author Levitt explains it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw

Is this supposed to sound like a negative? I'm pretty sure I paid about 20 grand to get my name on a list to do just what you described . My son was born in birth mothers apartment then dropped off at CSS. Prenatal care was slim to none. I never gave a second thought to what kind of issues we might encounter. Is there a family that does not have issues? While we are no longer officially waiting to adopt another child, if my phone rang today about a baby needing a home you can be guaranteed that I would be happy to do this all over again.

 

trigal.  if we had more folks like you, there'd be no need for Roe V. wade, period.  But there are not.  Sorry, there just aren't.  I don't know a single person, pro-choice or anti-choice who would disagree with my praise for your actions...but we have to be realistic in my opinion.

I highly recommend checking out Levitt's work on the topic.  Dealing with anecdotal, n=1, reports, things sound wonderful...but when ya look at the issue in the macro sense, your situation is by far the exception to the norm.

 



2012-11-10 5:38 PM
in reply to: #4492816

Expert
1662
10005001002525
Spokane, WA
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
hrliles - 2012-11-10 6:26 AM

It's not going to be a rant, rather a fix to the issue going forward I hope.  I'm a republocan in the sense of fiscal policy.  How can we though, as Republicans stand for less intrusive government and then tell women what to do with their own body.  I think this is the ultmate intrusion in any sense. On abortion, I feel it is morraly wrong but that's my opinion, it should not take government to manage this.  What I think as a man on this issue in fact should only be limited to me and my spouse and in that case I'm outnumbered 1 to 1.  In fact as a party we need to back away from this issue if we wish to go forward as a viable strong party!  We keep getting cornered on this one isue so many times and most Republicans I talk with agree, it's a moral issue not a party or government issue.

Look Dem's, we are not going to reverse Roe vs Wade.  We are not going to push grany off the cliff.  But as a party I think the main issue going forward is reducing defict spending, cutting some programs, and reducing taxes.  I see the Democratic party as moving towards socialism and for females if you are worried about government intrusion regarding your body, well, let's just see how the next 4 years goes.  I hope better.

Yeah baby, let's crank it up today, rips and rants welcome but before you tear into me, read paragraph 1 again!

53 million pro choices and counting.  It's really none of anyone's buisiness to stand up for the kids without a voice. 
2012-11-10 6:28 PM
in reply to: #4493219

Expert
1146
100010025
Johns Creek, Georgia
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
Great point and I agree BUT, if 50% of women think it's ok and 50% do not, how the hell do men have a dog in this fight and frankly, ladies forgive me here but why is it men doing the arguments on this all the time...or in the public forum mainly.  I'd like to hear women debate this issue more, as they are kindy inolved.

Edited by hrliles 2012-11-10 6:29 PM
2012-11-10 7:43 PM
in reply to: #4493284

Pro
4824
20002000500100100100
Houston
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion

hrliles - 2012-11-10 6:28 PM Great point and I agree BUT, if 50% of women think it's ok and 50% do not, how the hell do men have a dog in this fight and frankly, ladies forgive me here but why is it men doing the arguments on this all the time...or in the public forum mainly.  I'd like to hear women debate this issue more, as they are kindy inolved.

Already posted.

I have a friend on a waiting list for adoption, she has been told it will be 6-9 YEARS.  There are tons of people out there who want kids.

2012-11-10 8:31 PM
in reply to: #4493056

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Republicans and Abortion
Have you read the book freakonomics? In it they specifically talk about how just because it's mathematically reducing crime, it still isn't worth it even if it took 1000s of fetuses to = 1 human life.

I'm sure eugenics also can mathematically show a benefit to society, but I don't see you advocating for that.
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