Why are mass shooting murderers always called Gun"Men"? (Page 2)

I think you're on to something T. 

I would like to see a study done on how many of these people were medicated in any way at some point in the recent past, relative to their "incidents".   

My experiences are purely anecdotal, we really don't have time to study the people we deal with.

Still.....my experience tells me that the number is HUGE.

You want to know the most common comment I hear when someone goes on a "criminal spree" of any kind?  "He/she is off his/her medication".

I have said it 2 or 3 times already on these threads.....and I realize some don't particularly like it....the system to treat mentally ill people in our society is absolutely broken.  

I would like to see a study done on how many of these people were medicated in any way at some point in the recent past, relative to their "incidents".   

My experiences are purely anecdotal, we really don't have time to study the people we deal with.

Still.....my experience tells me that the number is HUGE.

You want to know the most common comment I hear when someone goes on a "criminal spree" of any kind?  "He/she is off his/her medication".

I have said it 2 or 3 times already on these threads.....and I realize some don't particularly like it....the system to treat mentally ill people in our society is absolutely broken.  

I would like to see a study done on how many of these people were medicated in any way at some point in the recent past, relative to their "incidents".   

My experiences are purely anecdotal, we really don't have time to study the people we deal with.

Still.....my experience tells me that the number is HUGE.

You want to know the most common comment I hear when someone goes on a "criminal spree" of any kind?  "He/she is off his/her medication".

I have said it 2 or 3 times already on these threads.....and I realize some don't particularly like it....the system to treat mentally ill people in our society is absolutely broken.  

Why settle for the singular?  If God in schools = good, Gods in schools = even better!

...now, do we issue guns to these Gods......

I'm good with that.

In all seriousness I think a huge contributing factor to many of these things is individuals who grow up in an unstable family and lack morals in general.  So many kids growing up without Dad's and they are designed (or evolved) to need a father figure in their lives.  If they don't have that Father figure they go to fill that void all the wrong places.  Drugs, alcohol, gangs, you name it.

If a kid doesn't have a Dad, religion can provide that role and give them moral guidance.  Even if you don't believe in the religions itself, it's hard to argue with someone having a higher power to keep them on the up and up and give them hope in their life as being a good thing.

For one that has no hope, consequences mean nothing!

That's a great point.

In Frank Miniter's book The Politically Incorrect Guide to Hunting, he claims that none of the teenage or young adult mass shooters he knew of grew up hunting. I don't know if that's based on actual data or is just his opinion.

Two of the flies in the ointment are, "What religion?," and, "Who decides?"  

As an aside, personally, I find it disappointing that it takes many folks a "belief in a higher power" to do the right things in life.  (as if, no final Judge?  I'm totally gonna do ANYTHING I wanna do!)  I've spoken with many religious folks who told me honestly, if there was no Higher Power, they'd do just that, anything they want to, right or wrong.  

btw, Tony, I really liked your quote:  "for one that has no hope, consequences mean nothing."   Then again, I couldn't help but think, "Just because one doesn't have a father, doesn't mean one has to have a Father."  

I would argue that killing any person, except in self-defense, makes you, by definition, mentally ill.

Here's the part you miss.  A gun doesn't kill another person any more than a knife, a spoon, a bottle of aspirin, a rope.  If you kill another person, or yourself, without the absolute need to protect yourself.....you are sick.

The issue is how to identify these people.  I agree that we could never hope to identify all of them.

BUT....when they articulate, themselves, the desire to kill themselves or others, much of the guesswork is taken out of the equation, wouldn't you agree?  It happens much more than you might think it does.  Those people, as soon as they utter those desires to a mandated reporter (in most cases that mean the police), are committed for an "observation period".  How long differs from state to state, but one thing is for sure.....the overwhelming majority (read...nearly ALL of them) are back out on the streets, or in their homes, within 48 hours.  It's absolutely ridiculous.

One of the issues that cloud the danger is that alot of them don't actually commit a violent crime against another person, or themselves, for a fairly long time frame after they are released....sometimes years.  I have the benefit of nearly 3 decades watching the same people run in and out of the system I described.....many of them commit their crimes far off of that radar....but it's never a surprise when they do.  They should have never been released......I'm sorry, some people can't live in society without being a danger to others.  The professionals know who they are as easily as the Police and their families, but they don't have the resources or won't take the responsibility.  

Guns are not the problem.  They are not evil.  They don't have the capability to be evil.

People have the capability, and some are.  If you get rid of them you solve the problem.  No, you can't get rid of all of them.....but you'll be much further down the road to solving this than if you were to get rid of a single gun.

I wasn't even referring to guns at all here. Just pointing out that a lot of homicides are the result of crimes of passion: rage, jealousy, greed, etc. For sure there are some that ARE the result of previously observable mental illness, and the system needs to do a better job of identifying those. But not all of them fall into that category. Not even a majority. The truth is that humans are a complex web of conscious and subconscious thought, emotions, urges, etc. Our normal mode of operation is to keep all of this well controlled and in balance. But if you introduce enough stressors in a short amount of time, you can cause just about any normal person to temporarily lose control. That's why we have phrases like "blind rage", etc. Obviously, most people are good at self-regulating and finding ways to cool off and regain composure. But some aren't, especially if the stressors are serious enough -- e.g., you just lost your job, found out your wife is having an affair, your child just wound up in jail, all in the same week. Now, since you raised the issue of guns, I'll just say that given the above, guns unfortunately make it quicker and easier to act out in those moments when you've briefly lost your composure. Especially if you're someone who was not well trained as a police officer, first responder, etc.

I can say with 100% confidence that there is nothing that can happen to me that would make me grab a gun and go shoot someone (outside of self defense). Sorry, just not buying it. I'm sure plenty can't say the same. There are a lot of things I could imagine that I would want to kill someone... but this isn't holywood and I don't go on a homicidal tear because somebody did me wrong.

I can say with 100% confidence that there is nothing that can happen to me that would make me grab a gun and go shoot someone. Sorry, just not buying it. I'm sure plenty can't say the same. There are a lot of things I could imagine that I would want to kill someone... but this isn't holywood and I don't go on a homicidal tear because somebody did me wrong.

I can say with 100% confidence that there is nothing that can happen to me that would make me grab a gun and go shoot someone. Sorry, just not buying it. I'm sure plenty can't say the same. There are a lot of things I could imagine that I would want to kill someone... but this isn't holywood and I don't go on a homicidal tear because somebody did me wrong.

Seriously, what's causing young men to do these things?
Did it always take place and we just didn't hear about it?
Or has something changed in the culture that contribute to bringing this all about? 

I would like to see a study done on how many of these people were medicated in any way at some point in the recent past, relative to their "incidents".   

My experiences are purely anecdotal, we really don't have time to study the people we deal with.

Still.....my experience tells me that the number is HUGE.

You want to know the most common comment I hear when someone goes on a "criminal spree" of any kind?  "He/she is off his/her medication".

I have said it 2 or 3 times already on these threads.....and I realize some don't particularly like it....the system to treat mentally ill people in our society is absolutely broken.  

Fixed that for you & +1

Saw this today.  I think you will find it interesting.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant-gaping-hole-in-sandy-hook-reporting/

Nothing in that article surprises me.  I think that's another catastrophic failure of the mental health industry......the over medication of our nation's children. 

I laugh every time I see a drug advertisement on TV that carries the warning, "if you become suicidal or have thoughts of suicide, see your physician".......how about don't take it if there is a chance of that?  Geez, how about don't approve it? 

Tri-polar.....I think we're having different discussions.....I was referring to mass shootings for the most part.  Although, I think "major mental health issues" or however they were referred to is a bit misleading.  How many people who kill themselves or use suicide to end a murder event do you think have "major" mental issues?  Still, there's a problem, huh?