Wow, Lance doped (Page 5)

And when he was a kid doing triathlon he was competing and beating adults. His genetics and work ethic took him to that highest level. The problem was, it did for others as well. And then, chemistry to take it to yet another level. For all of them. And then it became a shared lie among all the athletes. And they all perpetuated it until caught.

I also believe professional cycling was complicit, maybe not overtly, but people tuned in just to watch these athletes perform superhuman feats on their bikes. With that came the sponsors and money. Get caught doping? Aw, we'll suspend you for a season. Just keep that money rolling in.

Money and fame create a bubble. That bubble distorts reality. Inside the bubble is your version of normal, and that becomes your version of reality. That doesn't mean it's right, or that you can treat people however you want, it just is. Having headed (partially) down the same road as Lance in the corporate world, I am sympathetic. I know what that bubble does - it creates a distortion field that warps your view of the world and allows you to justify your actions. When the bubble finally bursts, everything gets blown all over the place.

Lance's actions from now into the future will determine how he will be viewed. For me, it started with my kids and regaining their trust. He appears to understand that. It's the first step in a long process. I wish him luck in that. It's an incredible amount of work, but work is something he understands I hope that he is able to move forward and build a new and fulfilling life.

I've often said that:

bad genetics + no work = poor performance

bad genetics + hard work = good performance

good genetics + no work = good performance

good genetics + hard work = great performance

Now, I guess it's time to update this.  I need to add:

good genetics + hard work + a superior PED program = total dominance

ETA: I hope no one takes this as an endorsement of PED's.  That's not my point.  My point is more that if someone is dominating a professional sport at the highest level, it's probably fair to scrutinize them a little more than the other competitors. 

I simply stated that LA would never have become a grand tour winner. I know he won stages, one-day races, and week-long races. LA simply was not built for winning grand tours. LeMond won the same sort of races as LA early in their careers. The difference was that LeMond was an immediate contender at winning grand tours unlike Lance. Look up their palmares from 1981-1986 (LeMond) and 1991-1996 (Armstrong). They're fairly equivalent except for grand tours.

I agree the EPO era skews things. But when you withdraw from three of your first four grand tours, that doesn't present a whole lot of confidence that you're going to be a grand tour winner if you can't even finish a grand tour. If you look back at the history of grand tour winners pre-EPO, nearly every single winner did well in grand tours before the age of 25.

I did look them up.

It's tough to call on this one. Admittedly, LA said he was not built for tours until cancer. I do put some stock in that. That he lost a lot of his upper body muscle mass, and rebuilt what he needed. I think to some degree that would have happened naturally had he continued racing tours without cancer. But obviously, post cancer, we know hormones, steroids, and EPO put him on the podium faster than he would have been without... if he would have been on eventually at all.

He was one of those riders good at climbing and time trials and not many can do both. He undoubtedly had talent and ability, but there is just no way to compare him to anyone else with his unique set of circumstances.

What we can say is that he raced against an elite group of riders that raced tours because they were suited for racing tours. And he raced against those that doped that were at the top of the field because they responded well to doping. And racing against elite tour athletes that doped... he dominated them for 7 years straight. And everyone of them wanted to be the one that knocked the DH American off the podium... and they could not do it. There is more to it than just the chemicals.

+1

I believed in Landis initially.  But taking all that $$$ from people for his legal defense fund was horrible.

Think you misunderstood me - I didn't say he won only because of the dope; I said some portion of his success was due to his excellence as an athlete (including talent, training, determination, etc) and some portion was due to his superior doping program. Therefore he won the sport of "juiced cycling" - his combination of cycling and doping was superior to anybody else's combination of cycling and doping. The sad thing is that we will never know to what extent doping changed the outcome of those races - we will never know how Lance would have fared in a drug-free peloton.

McGuire cheated... but people like him. Bonds cheated, and yes he was a heck of a hitter... but he was a real DH so he get's singled out.

Hincappie cheated by his side for all those years. How many people hate him?

Levi cheated, how many people are mad at him?

What is so hard to understand it isn't about "just" using PEDS.

None of the above had millions of devoted fans because they beat cancer and gave hope to many and then lied right to their face.

It goes way past PEDs. You reap what you sow. What ever he does or does not get from all this... he only has himself to blame.

Have kids? Do you feel the same "let 'em do it"?

It all trickles down.

I would agree...I had written my statement before I saw the second broadcast.    It is heartbreaking to know your child wants to defend you and your honor, and your dad tells you not to.  His kids are in a particularly terrible situation.  Their dad is in the spotlight.  They are going to be teased and tormented based on what LA did.  And for now at least, all they are going to hear in the media is how disgraceful their dad was.  To me, this is more heartbreaking than losing endorsements, money, or tour wins. 

I think this is the attitude that drove cycling into this mess. Some of the leaders in the sport felt the same way and turned a blind eye to the problem  There are a lot of athletes who want to ride clean. They also know that it is nearly impossible to compete against a doper. Now that the biggest name in cycling (and possibly endurance events) has "come out" the sport needs to stay  clean. I expect a Zero tolerance policy to be the rule shortly. PEDs should have no role in the future.

That's what really struck me. I do not have kids so that does not immediately pop into my head... but as soon as he said his boy was defending him... no judgment, that's just human.... you have lived this lie, done your best to squash it with a killer offense, goes on for years... long enough for your son to be old enough to sit there and make your life of lies his by defending them. What, he is supposed to do that the rest of his life? I'm sure even for arrogant self centered LA that was a tough realization.

But of course now.... when will Sally Jenkins be writing the book she KNEW she would never be witting. And has Luke competed in anything and will LA's kids ever have any passion to compete? I was wondering if a lifetime ban means he can not be involved with his kids if they ever turn pro. they are getting old enough now to wonder about that.

Here's the thing - whether you allow killing or not, people will still kill.

I am NOT trying to equate PED use with killing.  I am trying to demonstrate that your statement, by itself, is not a very good argument for why PEDs should be condoned in sport.  For the record, I believe that they should not be allowed.  Once allowed, to me, it is no longer 'sport' and should be viewed as purely entertainment.  That may be OK for some people (who might argue that's what pro sports mostly are anyway).  Personally, I'd lose a lot of interest.

And, on an earlier point, his punishment DOES fit the crime.  Stripped of titles and banned from sport.  Seems fitting to me.  Other 'punishment' will come from other 'crimes', if proven (lying, defamation, breaking contracts, etc.)

That's my problem with PEDs use... at the end of the day, after all the jack up body chemistry and thick blood... it still comes down to who works harder, who wants it more, and who can perform up to their ability on race day. And yes, even character. You have just moved the bar, but you still have to pass it. So how about we skip all that nonsense, call cheating what it is... cheating... and get back to marveling at what the pinnacle of human body and spirit can do. Because without PEDS... it's still pretty flipping incredible.