Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills
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2013-09-09 1:38 PM |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills I train in the DFW area - relatively flat and any hills are short, but probably steeper than most of the course for Branson's Rev3Tri. Soliciting everyone's hot sports opinion on attacking the bike portion of the hilly course. The run is flat. I bonked in my first HIM at Galveston (a completely flat course) after a great bike. Nutrition was the main issue - i can handle the distance and I learned my lesson on the nutrition. |
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2013-09-09 2:00 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Mind your pacing. It's very easy to go too hard early as you start going up them as they feel different and people really don't like to go slower than what they feel they "should" be doing for the effort. Check your gearing available. I *think* Branson tends to be decent sized steadier climbs, so a really low bottom end may not be necessary, but this is very relative to the individual. Generally you don't want your cadence to go that much lower than what you normally see, if at all. |
2013-09-11 1:29 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Veteran 660 Northern Illinois | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills The Branson hills are very long. I wouldn't describe them as especially steep but they seem to go on and on! I did a lot of hill work (hill repeats) and Spinervals (uphill grind) prior to Branson. I won't try to give specific advice because I don't know you or your strengths, but I will say that if you aren't a strong climber it could be a tough ride. If you look at the average finish times for Branson you will see it has one of the longest times on the HIM circuit. I promise you that isn't because of the swim or run. The bike is tough. |
2013-09-11 2:34 PM in reply to: TriBoilermaker |
New user 44 | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills I did it last year. For me, I stayed in the saddle the first lap. The second lap was mostly in the saddle. The third lap (well, 1/2 lap), was all out standing uphill, going 4 mph. The hills are long, just unfair long. It's so scenic though, and you have a 4 lane highway all to yourself. The last 10 miles or so are a breeze, almost entirely downhill. Here is my pathetic bike data, if you'd like to see it http://connect.garmin.com/activity/226324463 It's a really great race, and it's heartbreaking I can't do it this year. The biggest advice I have (that I would do myself if I could race) is to slap on an easier rear cassette. I needed it greatly the last lap. It's a really great course, have fun! |
2013-09-11 2:51 PM in reply to: TriBoilermaker |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by TriBoilermaker The Branson hills are very long. I wouldn't describe them as especially steep but they seem to go on and on! I did a lot of hill work (hill repeats) and Spinervals (uphill grind) prior to Branson. I won't try to give specific advice because I don't know you or your strengths, but I will say that if you aren't a strong climber it could be a tough ride. If you look at the average finish times for Branson you will see it has one of the longest times on the HIM circuit. I promise you that isn't because of the swim or run. The bike is tough. Thanks for the info. You are confirming my review of the Google streetview of the bike course. Those are long hills! At least its a level playing field. Also, what goes up, must come down... So my thought is focus on cadence and even effort level, not speed. |
2013-09-11 2:53 PM in reply to: CCS_56_EX |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by CCS_56_EX I did it last year. For me, I stayed in the saddle the first lap. The second lap was mostly in the saddle. The third lap (well, 1/2 lap), was all out standing uphill, going 4 mph. The hills are long, just unfair long. It's so scenic though, and you have a 4 lane highway all to yourself. The last 10 miles or so are a breeze, almost entirely downhill. Here is my pathetic bike data, if you'd like to see it http://connect.garmin.com/activity/226324463 It's a really great race, and it's heartbreaking I can't do it this year. The biggest advice I have (that I would do myself if I could race) is to slap on an easier rear cassette. I needed it greatly the last lap. It's a really great course, have fun! I have a compact crank...so I have a pretty good low gearing - though I almost think my roadbike would be a good choice over my Cervelo because its a better hill climber. |
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2013-09-12 7:45 AM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by FranzZemen Originally posted by CCS_56_EX I did it last year. For me, I stayed in the saddle the first lap. The second lap was mostly in the saddle. The third lap (well, 1/2 lap), was all out standing uphill, going 4 mph. The hills are long, just unfair long. It's so scenic though, and you have a 4 lane highway all to yourself. The last 10 miles or so are a breeze, almost entirely downhill. Here is my pathetic bike data, if you'd like to see it http://connect.garmin.com/activity/226324463It's a really great race, and it's heartbreaking I can't do it this year. The biggest advice I have (that I would do myself if I could race) is to slap on an easier rear cassette. I needed it greatly the last lap. It's a really great course, have fun! I have a compact crank...so I have a pretty good low gearing - though I almost think my roadbike would be a good choice over my Cervelo because its a better hill climber. What cassette do you have? And what makes the road bike bike better at climbing? I've never really understood that. Descending, sure, but don't think these are very technical descents. Just straight out fast. |
2013-09-12 7:51 AM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by FranzZemen Originally posted by TriBoilermaker The Branson hills are very long. I wouldn't describe them as especially steep but they seem to go on and on! I did a lot of hill work (hill repeats) and Spinervals (uphill grind) prior to Branson. I won't try to give specific advice because I don't know you or your strengths, but I will say that if you aren't a strong climber it could be a tough ride. If you look at the average finish times for Branson you will see it has one of the longest times on the HIM circuit. I promise you that isn't because of the swim or run. The bike is tough. Thanks for the info. You are confirming my review of the Google streetview of the bike course. Those are long hills! At least its a level playing field. Also, what goes up, must come down... So my thought is focus on cadence and even effort level, not speed. Definitely focus on the effort here. Think I remember about what you rode at an earlier season HIM, and thought your run would have been better if you'd backed off some there. Might have been only a few minutes, but overshooting creates issues fast. For this course, plan on it taking longer if the effort was similar. Probably at least 20 minutes, some may consider 30. Because of the extra time out on the bike course, that may mean dropping the effort a slight bit more still as it will drain you that much more before running. |
2013-09-13 2:49 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by FranzZemen Originally posted by CCS_56_EX I did it last year. For me, I stayed in the saddle the first lap. The second lap was mostly in the saddle. The third lap (well, 1/2 lap), was all out standing uphill, going 4 mph. The hills are long, just unfair long. It's so scenic though, and you have a 4 lane highway all to yourself. The last 10 miles or so are a breeze, almost entirely downhill. Here is my pathetic bike data, if you'd like to see it http://connect.garmin.com/activity/226324463It's a really great race, and it's heartbreaking I can't do it this year. The biggest advice I have (that I would do myself if I could race) is to slap on an easier rear cassette. I needed it greatly the last lap. It's a really great course, have fun! I have a compact crank...so I have a pretty good low gearing - though I almost think my roadbike would be a good choice over my Cervelo because its a better hill climber. What cassette do you have? And what makes the road bike bike better at climbing? I've never really understood that. Descending, sure, but don't think these are very technical descents. Just straight out fast. Shimano 12/25, FSA Gossamer 50/34 up front. The more upright position on the bike, an position on the pedals allow me to have a comfortable high cadence up hills. The bike frame is also more forgiving, and there are more spots for the hands. Riding out of the saddle (which I don't plan to do much at Branson) has more options as well. Edited by FranzZemen 2013-09-13 2:50 PM |
2013-09-13 2:51 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by FranzZemen Originally posted by TriBoilermaker The Branson hills are very long. I wouldn't describe them as especially steep but they seem to go on and on! I did a lot of hill work (hill repeats) and Spinervals (uphill grind) prior to Branson. I won't try to give specific advice because I don't know you or your strengths, but I will say that if you aren't a strong climber it could be a tough ride. If you look at the average finish times for Branson you will see it has one of the longest times on the HIM circuit. I promise you that isn't because of the swim or run. The bike is tough. Thanks for the info. You are confirming my review of the Google streetview of the bike course. Those are long hills! At least its a level playing field. Also, what goes up, must come down... So my thought is focus on cadence and even effort level, not speed. Definitely focus on the effort here. Think I remember about what you rode at an earlier season HIM, and thought your run would have been better if you'd backed off some there. Might have been only a few minutes, but overshooting creates issues fast. For this course, plan on it taking longer if the effort was similar. Probably at least 20 minutes, some may consider 30. Because of the extra time out on the bike course, that may mean dropping the effort a slight bit more still as it will drain you that much more before running. You're right. I did say that. Thanks for the advice. |
2013-09-15 6:11 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
New user 44 | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills I went to Branson this weekend to visit family, and drove the course. Wow, those hills are LONG. Saw a few tri bikes practicing the course. I swam a bunch in Table Rock. The water felt about as warm as my pool. Probably wetsuit legal, but at the upper end of it. If I were racing, I'm not sure if I would wear one. |
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2013-09-15 9:10 PM in reply to: CCS_56_EX |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by CCS_56_EX I went to Branson this weekend to visit family, and drove the course. Wow, those hills are LONG. Saw a few tri bikes practicing the course. I swam a bunch in Table Rock. The water felt about as warm as my pool. Probably wetsuit legal, but at the upper end of it. If I were racing, I'm not sure if I would wear one. What areas of the course would be safe to ride? Things off the main highway? I've been following the weather too. I'm guessing the water temp could drop slightly this week as temps should be a bit cooler. Will have to wait & see for sure, but thinking that borderline decisions like yours could lessen or go away. |
2013-09-15 10:13 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
New user 44 | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Yeah, the high road (465) would probably be safest. Cars would have good visibility of you and it's a 4 lane highway, so they could just move over to pass. I would also recommend riding up 265 once. It's not as safe, but it's a pretty steep climb and should help remind you to scale back the swim a little. |
2013-09-16 7:15 AM in reply to: CCS_56_EX |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Thanks for clarifying on where to ride, that's actually opposite what I was guessing. Haven't been to the specific area before. |
2013-09-16 4:30 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Wow thanks for this update! I've been trying to get a read on the water. I would rather not wear a wetsuit. Edited by FranzZemen 2013-09-16 4:30 PM |
2013-09-16 4:33 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills I checked out the old HIM times. The bike seems to be a good 45 min to 1 hour longer than Galveston. I rode lower mid 20's there (22 I think); those I'd consider comparable to me in the old HIM times were averaging just over 17 at Branson. Guess what goes up slow, doesn't come down as fast. |
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2013-09-16 9:58 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by FranzZemen I checked out the old HIM times. The bike seems to be a good 45 min to 1 hour longer than Galveston. I rode lower mid 20's there (22 I think); those I'd consider comparable to me in the old HIM times were averaging just over 17 at Branson. Guess what goes up slow, doesn't come down as fast. Oh you'll descend quite fast on these, but it won't be enough to make up the time going up. Be patient and remember that you'll have several laps of the same hills. A little easy the first time around and then see how you're doing for the later laps. |
2013-09-17 9:42 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Veteran 660 Northern Illinois | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by brigby1 I had a top speed of 49MPH at Branson and I'm not a daredevil. So yes, you will go down some very fast hills. However you will also be climbing some very long hills in the single digits. It does not even it's self out. I have done several HIM races and my bike was 35 minutes longer than any other race. It is an awesome bike course and I would love to do it again, but it is never going to be a PR race with that bike course. Originally posted by FranzZemen I checked out the old HIM times. The bike seems to be a good 45 min to 1 hour longer than Galveston. I rode lower mid 20's there (22 I think); those I'd consider comparable to me in the old HIM times were averaging just over 17 at Branson. Guess what goes up slow, doesn't come down as fast. Oh you'll descend quite fast on these, but it won't be enough to make up the time going up. Be patient and remember that you'll have several laps of the same hills. A little easy the first time around and then see how you're doing for the later laps. I hope all of you have a great race and I'm anxious to read your race reports. I'm sure Rev3 will do a good job with it. |
2013-09-19 11:31 AM in reply to: TriBoilermaker |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by TriBoilermaker Originally posted by brigby1 I had a top speed of 49MPH at Branson and I'm not a daredevil. So yes, you will go down some very fast hills. However you will also be climbing some very long hills in the single digits. It does not even it's self out. I have done several HIM races and my bike was 35 minutes longer than any other race. It is an awesome bike course and I would love to do it again, but it is never going to be a PR race with that bike course. Originally posted by FranzZemen I checked out the old HIM times. The bike seems to be a good 45 min to 1 hour longer than Galveston. I rode lower mid 20's there (22 I think); those I'd consider comparable to me in the old HIM times were averaging just over 17 at Branson. Guess what goes up slow, doesn't come down as fast. Oh you'll descend quite fast on these, but it won't be enough to make up the time going up. Be patient and remember that you'll have several laps of the same hills. A little easy the first time around and then see how you're doing for the later laps. I hope all of you have a great race and I'm anxious to read your race reports. I'm sure Rev3 will do a good job with it. Thanks! And thanks for the advice to all. You know how it is....we have to be reminded to not let self-pressure push us to fast too soon (at least most of us do). |
2013-09-19 11:31 AM in reply to: TriBoilermaker |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Originally posted by TriBoilermaker Originally posted by brigby1 I had a top speed of 49MPH at Branson and I'm not a daredevil. So yes, you will go down some very fast hills. However you will also be climbing some very long hills in the single digits. It does not even it's self out. I have done several HIM races and my bike was 35 minutes longer than any other race. It is an awesome bike course and I would love to do it again, but it is never going to be a PR race with that bike course. Originally posted by FranzZemen I checked out the old HIM times. The bike seems to be a good 45 min to 1 hour longer than Galveston. I rode lower mid 20's there (22 I think); those I'd consider comparable to me in the old HIM times were averaging just over 17 at Branson. Guess what goes up slow, doesn't come down as fast. Oh you'll descend quite fast on these, but it won't be enough to make up the time going up. Be patient and remember that you'll have several laps of the same hills. A little easy the first time around and then see how you're doing for the later laps. I hope all of you have a great race and I'm anxious to read your race reports. I'm sure Rev3 will do a good job with it. Thanks! And thanks for the advice to all. You know how it is....we have to be reminded to not let self-pressure push us to fast too soon (at least most of us do). |
2013-09-24 2:08 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Franz, you make it? |
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2013-09-25 12:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Race report: Overall - an AWESOME, beautiful course, even if you're not into the side-show entertainment that Branson offers (I wasn't). Rev3tri put on a well organized, successful race. I would do it again (but next year, will probably have a conflict with Ironman Tahoe....). Turnout: A little light - probably because it was the first one; other theories are that the course is known for its difficulty level; access to Branson is not ideal; locals told us Ironman had a 3 year contract and put on multiple concurrent races that distracted from the main event etc. There were 18 people in my age group. At Galveston HIM, there were 200. I personally enjoyed the light turnout, especially on the bike course. You felt like you were one of the pros out in the lead pack. Expo: Not much, but given the turnout I'm not surprised. I've not been to other Rev3tri events yet, so I have nothing to compare to, but WTC at Galveston had a well stocked and race specific expo. I don't go for the Expo, but I would have liked to purchase Branson specific items and the selection was sparse. Race morning: You go to T2, setup run gear, then they shuttle you to T1. Very well organized. 20 minute ride to T1, and spectators are allowed on the bus. I sat next to a pro. Yup, my ego was a little inflated. T1: (this was a split transition area race). Well organized, good floor based bike stands (wheel goes in as opposed to seat mounted rack). Bike mechanics on location to inflate tires etc. Funny DJ to keep us relaxed. Pavement was solid, no potholes etc., very little debris. Camera man going around asking AG'ers questions for online videos (I think mine is not online...yet). Beach Start: wonderful! You start under a Rev3tri arch, and finish under another arch before running up to T1. The beach is clean, almost like a private beach. Table Rock Lake: clean, clear water. The water was warm and borderline wetsuit legal. I was told it usually is not wetsuit legal. The air was 45 degrees. Needless to say, you stayed in the water until the beach start. The swim was foggy due to the temperature difference between the warm water and the cold air. One pro said he lost his way. My swim group also zig zagged occasionally until a buoy came into view. The lake is beautiful. It is difficult to focus on the race when there's so much nice coastline. I came out of the water way back as usual, slower because I'm actually slower in wetsuit. Bike Course: This WAS the main event. First 6 miles are uphill. I'm not talking about a little gradient either, but undulating hill, after hill, after hill. Then we hit the closed off 4 lane divided highway. The hills here basically form, more or less, a W, with peaks at both ends and one nasty one in the middle. The slopes are steep (my truck had to go into lower gear when I drove it), and long - a mile long. One stretch is about 9 miles, and we had 4.5 of those to do. The last .5 is particularly tough because the exit ramp is even steeper. The last 5 miles into town is basically downhill - or at least any hills are ridiculously small after the main course. I came out of the bike 3rd in my age group. Really good bike performance. I caught up to a 30' something cyclist on a road bike and we traded positions for about 30 miles in the hills; that was a good strategy as we kept each other motivated. We chatted a little about the advantages/disadvantages of a road bike on that course. Run: Flat, and through Branson Landing. A nice, riverside run. I faded after mile 6 and ended up 5/18 in my age group, about top 25% overall. I'm happy with my result. My nutrition plan was spot on, and I redeemed myself compared to the bonk at Galveston. But note that at Galveston I put in a poor 5:46 performance, and here I put in an awesome 5:53 performance. Tells you something about that bike.... I will do this course again, probably not next year as I'm signed up for IM Tahoe, but this is, from what we heard from the pros and past ag'ers, one of the toughest bike courses on the 70.3 circuits. Edited by FranzZemen 2013-09-25 12:59 PM |
2013-09-25 5:19 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Nice going! With only a 7 minute difference in time it sounds like you did a LOT better here! |
2013-10-02 12:54 PM in reply to: FranzZemen |
Veteran 660 Northern Illinois | Subject: RE: Rev3Tri Branson - Advice to handle hills Franz: Nice job! I don't know anything about the Galveston course, but only a 7:00 difference has to feel good for you. I thought you would like the bike course, it's hard not to! I hope Rev3 can make a go of it. Congratulations on a good race. |
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