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2013-09-25 1:49 PM

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Subject: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

I obviously have issues with the ACA because I feel it's just pouring gas on the fire of our overpriced healthcare system versus actually reforming anything.  But nonetheless, it's kicking in next week so I'm really curious to what it means to everyone here.  Does it work out and make things cheaper, does it make things more expensive, does it effect your job, etc...

From my perspective I'm still in no mans land because I have no idea what we're doing next year.  I own a business that employs 8 people and I provide healthcare for all my peeps.  I have an HSA account with an individual deductible of $1500 and a family deductible of $3000 and then I contribute $250/mo. into each employees HSA account.  So not only is it free insurance for everyone, it is an extra bonus that everyone gets if they stay healthy and don't haev to use their HSA card.  For obvious reasons my employees absolutely LOVE our insurance and have virtually zero out of pocket costs all year. 

Even with that I still have 3 that opt out of the coverage due to their spouse getting coverage from their company in two cases and a third is covered by his parents plan still.  So, I have 5 covered people and I'm paying roughly $2000/mo. (some single, some with families) for their insurance and I'm paying $1250/mo. for their HSA contributions.  Total monthly cost to the business of $3250, or $39,000 per year.

The reason I went this route was because we had a PPO plan last year and my total out of pocket for the business was right around $3500/mo. and everyone still had to fork over a pretty hefty deductible on their PPO plans for anything outside of regular dr. visits.  My daughter had to have a procedure and it cost me almost $3500 out of pocket.  So, for me it was a no brainer.

So, a few months back United Health (our insurance provider) informs me that my plan is being discontinued because it is not in compliance with the ACA.  Apparently the deductibles were too high.
So, no matter what even though we all want to keep our existing insurance plan there's no question that is gone and I have to change.  I have yet to see what United Health is offering for next year so it may not ultimately be a big deal or it may be a really big deal.  The jury is still out.

The other piece that's becoming very frustrating for me is this.  I have an investor that helped me start my business.  He is a silent partner and has no involvement in my business whatsoever.  However, he owns another business that employs 40 people and approximately 20 of those people are part time college kids that work between 30 and 39 hours a week.  It's menial warehouse and bench testing type jobs so they're pretty low paying jobs.

His CFO calls me last week and informs me that they were just advised that due to my partner being an owner in both businesses his 50 employee count requiring full ACA compliance is based off the accumulated employees from all of his businesses.  In other words he's sitting at 48 employees counting his and mine.  They both informed me that I am on an immediate hiring freeze and that under no circumstances would they go over 50 employees because it would cost them upwards of $100k in additional benefits and would likely cost them that much or more in having to hire new consultants to do all of the necessary stuff to become fully compliant with the law.

To emphasize how bad this sucks, I have three openings right now at my business and had been interviewing candidates.  I have had to close all three of these positions and my current employees are very upset because of the workload.   My company is growing, I need to hire people, but I am now hamstrung by this new law.  This is not making me very happy right now.  I honestly have no idea what to do.

I'm also now dependent on my business partner to determine which way our benefits go.  He's talking about just throwing his employees out into the exchange which means I would have to do the same.  Due to his ownership in my business he has to be consistent.

So, I'm not trying to turn this into a bash the ACA thread, but I'm getting really nervous for my business.  The open positions (aka 3 jobs) are dead.  That's real.  I still don't know what will happen to our awesome medical benefits.  If I lose an employee because of this I'm going off the rails.



2013-09-25 3:43 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

 

Easy, you hire 6 people instead of the three and you cut everyone back to 29 hours a week. The 50 full time employee thing is just to get you over the hump but you still are only obligated to provide insurance for full time employees. So even if you have 200 employees as long as you keep everyone below 29 hours you should be good to go, until they fix that part of course.

No worries, there are lots of jobs out there, if your employees start crying about not making ends meet on 29 hours a week tell them to go claim one of the many awesome, high paying, easy to get jobs that are out there.

2013-09-25 5:03 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Unless I missed something I thought this was something you did not have to worry about until 2015.

http://www.shrm.org/hrdisciplines/benefits/articles/pages/mandate-d...
2013-09-25 5:10 PM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
I get my insurance through work (Fortune 500 company 7000+ employees) and we find out next month what the changes are. I'm a little scared to see what comes out to be honest.
2013-09-25 5:18 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

 

Mine remains the same, no insurance now, no insurance after Oct 1 and no insurance after Jan 1.

I am one of the "young" people who is going to screw ocare's projections all to heck. 

2013-09-25 5:43 PM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

Originally posted by chirunner134 Unless I missed something I thought this was something you did not have to worry about until 2015. http://www.shrm.org/hrdisciplines/benefits/articles/pages/mandate-d...

Here is where it's confusing again because I thought the same thing as well, but what I've heard from a few different people is that the postponement was only for employees with over 100 employees (or something like that).  So businesses with 50-100 employees are going live on Jan 1 as ginea pigs.  I've googled this and can't really find anything on it, so don't take it as gospel from me.

As I mentioned before, there's so much confusion and misinformation out there it's getting whacky.  That's why my partner hired a consultant to tell him if he had to even do anything or not.



2013-09-25 5:44 PM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by Aarondb4

 

Mine remains the same, no insurance now, no insurance after Oct 1 and no insurance after Jan 1.

I am one of the "young" people who is going to screw ocare's projections all to heck. 

Don't forget though, the individual mandate does kick in on Jan 1.  So you'll either pay for coverage next year or pay the fine.  :-/

2013-09-25 7:28 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by tuwood

I obviously have issues with the ACA because I feel it's just pouring gas on the fire of our overpriced healthcare system versus actually reforming anything.  But nonetheless, it's kicking in next week so I'm really curious to what it means to everyone here.  Does it work out and make things cheaper, does it make things more expensive, does it effect your job, etc...

From my perspective I'm still in no mans land because I have no idea what we're doing next year.  I own a business that employs 8 people and I provide healthcare for all my peeps.  I have an HSA account with an individual deductible of $1500 and a family deductible of $3000 and then I contribute $250/mo. into each employees HSA account.  So not only is it free insurance for everyone, it is an extra bonus that everyone gets if they stay healthy and don't haev to use their HSA card.  For obvious reasons my employees absolutely LOVE our insurance and have virtually zero out of pocket costs all year. 

Even with that I still have 3 that opt out of the coverage due to their spouse getting coverage from their company in two cases and a third is covered by his parents plan still.  So, I have 5 covered people and I'm paying roughly $2000/mo. (some single, some with families) for their insurance and I'm paying $1250/mo. for their HSA contributions.  Total monthly cost to the business of $3250, or $39,000 per year.

The reason I went this route was because we had a PPO plan last year and my total out of pocket for the business was right around $3500/mo. and everyone still had to fork over a pretty hefty deductible on their PPO plans for anything outside of regular dr. visits.  My daughter had to have a procedure and it cost me almost $3500 out of pocket.  So, for me it was a no brainer.

So, a few months back United Health (our insurance provider) informs me that my plan is being discontinued because it is not in compliance with the ACA.  Apparently the deductibles were too high.
So, no matter what even though we all want to keep our existing insurance plan there's no question that is gone and I have to change.  I have yet to see what United Health is offering for next year so it may not ultimately be a big deal or it may be a really big deal.  The jury is still out.

The other piece that's becoming very frustrating for me is this.  I have an investor that helped me start my business.  He is a silent partner and has no involvement in my business whatsoever.  However, he owns another business that employs 40 people and approximately 20 of those people are part time college kids that work between 30 and 39 hours a week.  It's menial warehouse and bench testing type jobs so they're pretty low paying jobs.

His CFO calls me last week and informs me that they were just advised that due to my partner being an owner in both businesses his 50 employee count requiring full ACA compliance is based off the accumulated employees from all of his businesses.  In other words he's sitting at 48 employees counting his and mine.  They both informed me that I am on an immediate hiring freeze and that under no circumstances would they go over 50 employees because it would cost them upwards of $100k in additional benefits and would likely cost them that much or more in having to hire new consultants to do all of the necessary stuff to become fully compliant with the law.

To emphasize how bad this sucks, I have three openings right now at my business and had been interviewing candidates.  I have had to close all three of these positions and my current employees are very upset because of the workload.   My company is growing, I need to hire people, but I am now hamstrung by this new law.  This is not making me very happy right now.  I honestly have no idea what to do.

I'm also now dependent on my business partner to determine which way our benefits go.  He's talking about just throwing his employees out into the exchange which means I would have to do the same.  Due to his ownership in my business he has to be consistent.

So, I'm not trying to turn this into a bash the ACA thread, but I'm getting really nervous for my business.  The open positions (aka 3 jobs) are dead.  That's real.  I still don't know what will happen to our awesome medical benefits.  If I lose an employee because of this I'm going off the rails.

 

Sounds like it could be time to buy out that other partner.   It might be a good time to do so because he will be more motivated to get rid of you so that he can grow his business like he needs to, if he needs to.

Anyone that can call you up and tell you not to hire people that you need to hire... is NOT a "silent partner"

I'm no help on the ACA stuff. As an expat we get a 100% coverage insurance plan that I pay no money for.  I'm sure once I get back to the states I'll have my eyes opened as to what ACA has done for me.  Since my company is rather large (46,000 employees) I'm guessing that I'll still have my HSA+deductible, with lower deductibles. We'll see.

2013-09-25 10:37 PM
in reply to: moondawg14

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by moondawg14
Originally posted by tuwood

I obviously have issues with the ACA because I feel it's just pouring gas on the fire of our overpriced healthcare system versus actually reforming anything.  But nonetheless, it's kicking in next week so I'm really curious to what it means to everyone here.  Does it work out and make things cheaper, does it make things more expensive, does it effect your job, etc...

From my perspective I'm still in no mans land because I have no idea what we're doing next year.  I own a business that employs 8 people and I provide healthcare for all my peeps.  I have an HSA account with an individual deductible of $1500 and a family deductible of $3000 and then I contribute $250/mo. into each employees HSA account.  So not only is it free insurance for everyone, it is an extra bonus that everyone gets if they stay healthy and don't haev to use their HSA card.  For obvious reasons my employees absolutely LOVE our insurance and have virtually zero out of pocket costs all year. 

Even with that I still have 3 that opt out of the coverage due to their spouse getting coverage from their company in two cases and a third is covered by his parents plan still.  So, I have 5 covered people and I'm paying roughly $2000/mo. (some single, some with families) for their insurance and I'm paying $1250/mo. for their HSA contributions.  Total monthly cost to the business of $3250, or $39,000 per year.

The reason I went this route was because we had a PPO plan last year and my total out of pocket for the business was right around $3500/mo. and everyone still had to fork over a pretty hefty deductible on their PPO plans for anything outside of regular dr. visits.  My daughter had to have a procedure and it cost me almost $3500 out of pocket.  So, for me it was a no brainer.

So, a few months back United Health (our insurance provider) informs me that my plan is being discontinued because it is not in compliance with the ACA.  Apparently the deductibles were too high.
So, no matter what even though we all want to keep our existing insurance plan there's no question that is gone and I have to change.  I have yet to see what United Health is offering for next year so it may not ultimately be a big deal or it may be a really big deal.  The jury is still out.

The other piece that's becoming very frustrating for me is this.  I have an investor that helped me start my business.  He is a silent partner and has no involvement in my business whatsoever.  However, he owns another business that employs 40 people and approximately 20 of those people are part time college kids that work between 30 and 39 hours a week.  It's menial warehouse and bench testing type jobs so they're pretty low paying jobs.

His CFO calls me last week and informs me that they were just advised that due to my partner being an owner in both businesses his 50 employee count requiring full ACA compliance is based off the accumulated employees from all of his businesses.  In other words he's sitting at 48 employees counting his and mine.  They both informed me that I am on an immediate hiring freeze and that under no circumstances would they go over 50 employees because it would cost them upwards of $100k in additional benefits and would likely cost them that much or more in having to hire new consultants to do all of the necessary stuff to become fully compliant with the law.

To emphasize how bad this sucks, I have three openings right now at my business and had been interviewing candidates.  I have had to close all three of these positions and my current employees are very upset because of the workload.   My company is growing, I need to hire people, but I am now hamstrung by this new law.  This is not making me very happy right now.  I honestly have no idea what to do.

I'm also now dependent on my business partner to determine which way our benefits go.  He's talking about just throwing his employees out into the exchange which means I would have to do the same.  Due to his ownership in my business he has to be consistent.

So, I'm not trying to turn this into a bash the ACA thread, but I'm getting really nervous for my business.  The open positions (aka 3 jobs) are dead.  That's real.  I still don't know what will happen to our awesome medical benefits.  If I lose an employee because of this I'm going off the rails.

 

Sounds like it could be time to buy out that other partner.   It might be a good time to do so because he will be more motivated to get rid of you so that he can grow his business like he needs to, if he needs to.

Anyone that can call you up and tell you not to hire people that you need to hire... is NOT a "silent partner"

I'm no help on the ACA stuff. As an expat we get a 100% coverage insurance plan that I pay no money for.  I'm sure once I get back to the states I'll have my eyes opened as to what ACA has done for me.  Since my company is rather large (46,000 employees) I'm guessing that I'll still have my HSA+deductible, with lower deductibles. We'll see.

You some kind of mind reader? I have a multi year buyout agreement already signed and I'm planning to try and accelerate that based on this new development. Also, he was a silent partner until last week.
2013-09-26 1:00 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by tuwood
Originally posted by moondawg14
Originally posted by tuwood

I obviously have issues with the ACA because I feel it's just pouring gas on the fire of our overpriced healthcare system versus actually reforming anything.  But nonetheless, it's kicking in next week so I'm really curious to what it means to everyone here.  Does it work out and make things cheaper, does it make things more expensive, does it effect your job, etc...

From my perspective I'm still in no mans land because I have no idea what we're doing next year.  I own a business that employs 8 people and I provide healthcare for all my peeps.  I have an HSA account with an individual deductible of $1500 and a family deductible of $3000 and then I contribute $250/mo. into each employees HSA account.  So not only is it free insurance for everyone, it is an extra bonus that everyone gets if they stay healthy and don't haev to use their HSA card.  For obvious reasons my employees absolutely LOVE our insurance and have virtually zero out of pocket costs all year. 

Even with that I still have 3 that opt out of the coverage due to their spouse getting coverage from their company in two cases and a third is covered by his parents plan still.  So, I have 5 covered people and I'm paying roughly $2000/mo. (some single, some with families) for their insurance and I'm paying $1250/mo. for their HSA contributions.  Total monthly cost to the business of $3250, or $39,000 per year.

The reason I went this route was because we had a PPO plan last year and my total out of pocket for the business was right around $3500/mo. and everyone still had to fork over a pretty hefty deductible on their PPO plans for anything outside of regular dr. visits.  My daughter had to have a procedure and it cost me almost $3500 out of pocket.  So, for me it was a no brainer.

So, a few months back United Health (our insurance provider) informs me that my plan is being discontinued because it is not in compliance with the ACA.  Apparently the deductibles were too high.
So, no matter what even though we all want to keep our existing insurance plan there's no question that is gone and I have to change.  I have yet to see what United Health is offering for next year so it may not ultimately be a big deal or it may be a really big deal.  The jury is still out.

The other piece that's becoming very frustrating for me is this.  I have an investor that helped me start my business.  He is a silent partner and has no involvement in my business whatsoever.  However, he owns another business that employs 40 people and approximately 20 of those people are part time college kids that work between 30 and 39 hours a week.  It's menial warehouse and bench testing type jobs so they're pretty low paying jobs.

His CFO calls me last week and informs me that they were just advised that due to my partner being an owner in both businesses his 50 employee count requiring full ACA compliance is based off the accumulated employees from all of his businesses.  In other words he's sitting at 48 employees counting his and mine.  They both informed me that I am on an immediate hiring freeze and that under no circumstances would they go over 50 employees because it would cost them upwards of $100k in additional benefits and would likely cost them that much or more in having to hire new consultants to do all of the necessary stuff to become fully compliant with the law.

To emphasize how bad this sucks, I have three openings right now at my business and had been interviewing candidates.  I have had to close all three of these positions and my current employees are very upset because of the workload.   My company is growing, I need to hire people, but I am now hamstrung by this new law.  This is not making me very happy right now.  I honestly have no idea what to do.

I'm also now dependent on my business partner to determine which way our benefits go.  He's talking about just throwing his employees out into the exchange which means I would have to do the same.  Due to his ownership in my business he has to be consistent.

So, I'm not trying to turn this into a bash the ACA thread, but I'm getting really nervous for my business.  The open positions (aka 3 jobs) are dead.  That's real.  I still don't know what will happen to our awesome medical benefits.  If I lose an employee because of this I'm going off the rails.

 

Sounds like it could be time to buy out that other partner.   It might be a good time to do so because he will be more motivated to get rid of you so that he can grow his business like he needs to, if he needs to.

Anyone that can call you up and tell you not to hire people that you need to hire... is NOT a "silent partner"

I'm no help on the ACA stuff. As an expat we get a 100% coverage insurance plan that I pay no money for.  I'm sure once I get back to the states I'll have my eyes opened as to what ACA has done for me.  Since my company is rather large (46,000 employees) I'm guessing that I'll still have my HSA+deductible, with lower deductibles. We'll see.

You some kind of mind reader? I have a multi year buyout agreement already signed and I'm planning to try and accelerate that based on this new development. Also, he was a silent partner until last week.

I knew you were going to say that.

My "silent partner" in my first business was my buddy who did some database work.  We each got paid for the hours we we worked, and then we split the profit after that.   But the database work fell off, and we were just splitting all of the profits I earned!   I bought him out generously and we're still buddies.   WIN.

My "silent partner" in my(our) second business was our credit cards.   We paid them off in the first 4 months of operation and we've got great credit.  WIN.   Sold that business so we could buy our current house. 

Good luck on the buyout. Unless he's got some other leverage on you, If things get crappy between you during the buyout... I'd hire 2 more people.  Those 2 people will be HUGE for you, and he will be hamstrung on hiring.   ACA has created a "tragedy of the commons" between you, and you will get WAY more benefit from putting those 2 people into the "commons" than he would.   Dickly move to be sure... but you gotta feed your family.

2013-09-26 8:20 AM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by Aarondb4

 

Easy, you hire 6 people instead of the three and you cut everyone back to 29 hours a week. The 50 full time employee thing is just to get you over the hump but you still are only obligated to provide insurance for full time employees. So even if you have 200 employees as long as you keep everyone below 29 hours you should be good to go, until they fix that part of course.

No worries, there are lots of jobs out there, if your employees start crying about not making ends meet on 29 hours a week tell them to go claim one of the many awesome, high paying, easy to get jobs that are out there.

I hope you just forgot the sarc font.

The end result of that type of short-sighted decision is nearly always lower morale, lower production, higher turnover, and in the end, even higher operating costs for the business.

I'm very curious to see how this all shakes out with Obamacare too.  My college age son and I are both on my wife's insurance through her employer (Commonwealth of PA).  I haven't heard anything about changes to that program.  Where it's going to be interesting for me is at the gym where I'm a full-time employee.  The gym has about 70 employees, of which, less than 10 are full time.  They don't provide any health coverage whatsoever.  By coincidence, I'm trying to hire another full time personal trainer right now, and had a fantastic candidate decline my offer two days ago because the lack of insurance was a deal breaker for her.  I'm hopeful that no matter how things work out, in the end I won't lose potential good hires over this issue anymore.



2013-09-26 8:55 AM
in reply to: moondawg14

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by moondawg14

I knew you were going to say that.

My "silent partner" in my first business was my buddy who did some database work.  We each got paid for the hours we we worked, and then we split the profit after that.   But the database work fell off, and we were just splitting all of the profits I earned!   I bought him out generously and we're still buddies.   WIN.

My "silent partner" in my(our) second business was our credit cards.   We paid them off in the first 4 months of operation and we've got great credit.  WIN.   Sold that business so we could buy our current house. 

Good luck on the buyout. Unless he's got some other leverage on you, If things get crappy between you during the buyout... I'd hire 2 more people.  Those 2 people will be HUGE for you, and he will be hamstrung on hiring.   ACA has created a "tragedy of the commons" between you, and you will get WAY more benefit from putting those 2 people into the "commons" than he would.   Dickly move to be sure... but you gotta feed your family.

We're on very good terms and he's a friend of mine too.  He invested some start up capital at the beginning for an ownership stake.  He mostly did it to help me out more than a money maker, so he's totally fine with getting out.

I was planning to take out a bank loan mid next year to finance his buyout, but I may have to speed that up a little bit.

Either way, it should be fun.

2013-09-26 9:10 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by Aarondb4

 

Easy, you hire 6 people instead of the three and you cut everyone back to 29 hours a week. The 50 full time employee thing is just to get you over the hump but you still are only obligated to provide insurance for full time employees. So even if you have 200 employees as long as you keep everyone below 29 hours you should be good to go, until they fix that part of course.

No worries, there are lots of jobs out there, if your employees start crying about not making ends meet on 29 hours a week tell them to go claim one of the many awesome, high paying, easy to get jobs that are out there.

I hope you just forgot the sarc font.

The end result of that type of short-sighted decision is nearly always lower morale, lower production, higher turnover, and in the end, even higher operating costs for the business.

I'm very curious to see how this all shakes out with Obamacare too.  My college age son and I are both on my wife's insurance through her employer (Commonwealth of PA).  I haven't heard anything about changes to that program.  Where it's going to be interesting for me is at the gym where I'm a full-time employee.  The gym has about 70 employees, of which, less than 10 are full time.  They don't provide any health coverage whatsoever.  By coincidence, I'm trying to hire another full time personal trainer right now, and had a fantastic candidate decline my offer two days ago because the lack of insurance was a deal breaker for her.  I'm hopeful that no matter how things work out, in the end I won't lose potential good hires over this issue anymore.

I read it as humorous.

It is an option for some industries and there are many businesses doing just this all over the US.  I've got a good friend of mine that owns about 50 Jimmy Johns restaurants and he cut all of his employees company wide back to 29 hours because he had no other choice.  With a minimum wage type business such as JJ he may only clear $35k-$50k a year on one store and has probably 10 people working at each store.  If he were to offer them healthcare at lets just say $300/mo. per employee it would take 100% of his profit.  Now, yes he could raise his prices, but then you get into supply and demand kicking in and sales would drop.

With my business, we sell IT products and services.  Almost all of my employees are full time salaried positions.  It's very competitive to get highly skilled workers in this area so I have to pay them very well and provide a good benefits package.  If I were to hypothetically cut their positions to 29 hours they would all quit immediately.  So, it's definitely not an option for me.

What's funny, is I'd go on and on about ACA and not liking it, but it was more about higher taxes and the government getting into businesses it shouldn't.  My business wasn't the problem because I not only provide healthcare to everyone, but I provide it for free.  Now, in the effort to give "everyone" healthcare it may very well end up reducing what my employees had.

Obviously it's early and the jury's still out, so I'm not going all chicken little yet, but I really dislike the uncertainty.

2013-09-26 9:56 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by TriMyBest
Originally posted by Aarondb4

 

Easy, you hire 6 people instead of the three and you cut everyone back to 29 hours a week. The 50 full time employee thing is just to get you over the hump but you still are only obligated to provide insurance for full time employees. So even if you have 200 employees as long as you keep everyone below 29 hours you should be good to go, until they fix that part of course.

No worries, there are lots of jobs out there, if your employees start crying about not making ends meet on 29 hours a week tell them to go claim one of the many awesome, high paying, easy to get jobs that are out there.

I hope you just forgot the sarc font.

The end result of that type of short-sighted decision is nearly always lower morale, lower production, higher turnover, and in the end, even higher operating costs for the business.

I'm very curious to see how this all shakes out with Obamacare too.  My college age son and I are both on my wife's insurance through her employer (Commonwealth of PA).  I haven't heard anything about changes to that program.  Where it's going to be interesting for me is at the gym where I'm a full-time employee.  The gym has about 70 employees, of which, less than 10 are full time.  They don't provide any health coverage whatsoever.  By coincidence, I'm trying to hire another full time personal trainer right now, and had a fantastic candidate decline my offer two days ago because the lack of insurance was a deal breaker for her.  I'm hopeful that no matter how things work out, in the end I won't lose potential good hires over this issue anymore.

 

Wish I had.

Unfortunately that is the reality for a lot of employers and employees. Tony's business requires highly skilled people and there is a lot of competition to keep them so obviously this will not work for him. 

But if you are a medium or low skilled worker and easily replaceable, it would be and is a very viable option for your employer to cut you back to 29 hours to save the cost of healthcare for you. 

Health insurance for just me would be between $2,500 and $5k a year depending on the plan. I am 28, never had a health issue, right where I should be on the BMI, etc. the perfect candidate for health insurance and it is still that costly. Now imagine I have a full time job at $12 an hour which is a pretty good rate here. That puts me around $25k a year before taxes in what my employer spends on me, overnight you take that to $28k-30, X however many employees. It just isn't viable. Either the cost of good goes up tremendously which kills the unskilled worker anyway or they all get cut back to 29 hours which kills the unskilled worker.

IMO this whole stupid thing was designed to fail so that people will beg for a single payer system. 

2013-09-26 10:42 AM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Champion
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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
I do not think it was designed to fail it was designed to keep high donors to keep bringing in a lot of money or at least money.

2013-09-26 10:57 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Expert
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Boise, ID
Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

Originally posted by chirunner134 I do not think it was designed to fail it was designed to keep high donors to keep bringing in a lot of money or at least money.

Can you expound on that? Are you saying someone paid to get this bill passed? Who? Who does it benefit? Haven't heard that theory before so genuinely curious as to your take on it.



2013-09-26 11:18 AM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Champion
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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Really?

here is an example of what I am talking about.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/liz-fowler-johnson-johnson...
2013-09-26 12:01 PM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by Aarondb4

Originally posted by chirunner134 I do not think it was designed to fail it was designed to keep high donors to keep bringing in a lot of money or at least money.

Can you expound on that? Are you saying someone paid to get this bill passed? Who? Who does it benefit? Haven't heard that theory before so genuinely curious as to your take on it.

I don't know a lot about it, but lets just say there are a lot of people in the medical supply industry who REALLY wanted this to pass.  For some reason an extra 100M or so customers funded by government $ was appealing to them. 

2013-09-26 12:12 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by tuwood
Originally posted by Aarondb4

Originally posted by chirunner134 I do not think it was designed to fail it was designed to keep high donors to keep bringing in a lot of money or at least money.

Can you expound on that? Are you saying someone paid to get this bill passed? Who? Who does it benefit? Haven't heard that theory before so genuinely curious as to your take on it.

I don't know a lot about it, but lets just say there are a lot of people in the medical supply industry who REALLY wanted this to pass.  For some reason an extra 100M or so customers funded by government $ was appealing to them. 

That makes sense. Wonder what the medical equipment people did to get themselves such a raw deal. I guess they can always pass the new tax cost along. 

2013-09-26 12:38 PM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Elite
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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by Aarondb4

Originally posted by chirunner134 I do not think it was designed to fail it was designed to keep high donors to keep bringing in a lot of money or at least money.

Can you expound on that? Are you saying someone paid to get this bill passed? Who? Who does it benefit? Haven't heard that theory before so genuinely curious as to your take on it.




I'm willing to bet that 99% of the legislation that passes has someone behind it who stands to gain immensely and who donated some serious dough for it.
2013-09-26 11:14 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Tuwood, won't there be a cost reduction when the Tort reform parts of the bill kick in?


2013-09-27 2:54 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

This sums up most of the debate I have heard on the subject, including by the politicians:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-who-understands-8-of-obamacare-vigorously-defe,34022/ 

2013-09-27 3:04 PM
in reply to: crusevegas

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)

Originally posted by crusevegas Tuwood, won't there be a cost reduction when the Tort reform parts of the bill kick in?

lol, oh yeah. 

2013-09-27 3:13 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
Originally posted by Hook'em

This sums up most of the debate I have heard on the subject, including by the politicians:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-who-understands-8-of-obamacare-vigorously-defe,34022/ 

lol, I think I'm the 5% guy

2013-09-30 10:23 PM
in reply to: tuwood

Veteran
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Ohio
Subject: RE: ACA fun begins on Oct 1 (mines beginning already)
For me, I am really hoping the new exchanges and the elimination of the pre-existing condition factor will allow me to get coverage for my wife, who has been denied coverage.
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