Michael Sams (Page 2)

Rather unfortunate that in our "drama news" society he had to "get out in front of it" and hope that he would do better in the draft if he got to put his own spin on it. If the media wasn't so desperate for something like this to latch onto and push an agenda, he could have told the people that matter (family, friends, teammates) then entered the draft based on, oh I don't know, his ability to play football, and the rest would have been a non issue. 

Yep I have. Most of us responded with "yep, that figures, so?" 

Making a big deal out of it defines a person by it. It has to stop somewhere otherwise you end up with the gay version of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, constantly making it a battle and creating the "us vs. them" mentality which is the original reason for the "coming out". 

I have had gay friends who defined themselves by being gay and I have had friends who were gay. Any discussion with the friends who let it define them led right back to us vs. them. My friends who happened to be gay but didn't let it define them didn't have that issue. 

If I were to have a coming out party as hetero and define myself only as a "straight man" and take the us vs. them mentality then I would likely be a Republican Senator and I would be ridiculed as such.

I heard the comments from Sam's father tonight.  What a complete jackarse.

I heard the comments from Sam's father tonight.  What a complete jackarse.

You, and many others who have commented, don't have an issue with gays/lesbians.  But there are many, many who do.  Many who do hate, and don't tolerate, and persecute.  So of course you don't understand what the big deal is.  You are not on one side or the other, but a bystander.  Whether you understand it or not, currently in many places, there IS an us vs them mentality.  Just look at Arlan Bruce and Bryant Turner's comments.   Michael Sam is just trying to bridge the gap between.  Be thankful that you CAN talk about your spouse and you don't have to come out.  The day that it doesn't matter, we won't make announcements.  Promise.

Just for the sake of discussion would you perhaps be able to provide some examples that are not too personal for you? If not I understand.

Persecute is a pretty strong word, I would be interested to know how a gay person is persecuted. As far as the hate and don't tolerate, how does this manifest itself? Muslim extremists hate me, it doesn't bother me, the black panthers hate me, again that has no affect on me. Heck I am sure there are some far left liberal whackos who would hate me and not tolerate me just based on political views, I don't see how this affects me. I'm sure Michael Sams got some mean comments on Twitter and Facebook, who hasn't? I post regularly on my Senator's Facebook page and I have most definitely been hated and not tolerated, doesn't make any difference to me.

I have not seen the gay people I know being "persecuted". I am not trying to be flippant, just trying to understand from your view. Thanks. 

Just for the sake of discussion would you perhaps be able to provide some examples that are not too personal for you? If not I understand.

Persecute is a pretty strong word, I would be interested to know how a gay person is persecuted. As far as the hate and don't tolerate, how does this manifest itself? Muslim extremists hate me, it doesn't bother me, the black panthers hate me, again that has no affect on me. Heck I am sure there are some far left liberal whackos who would hate me and not tolerate me just based on political views, I don't see how this affects me. I'm sure Michael Sams got some mean comments on Twitter and Facebook, who hasn't? I post regularly on my Senator's Facebook page and I have most definitely been hated and not tolerated, doesn't make any difference to me.

I have not seen the gay people I know being "persecuted". I am not trying to be flippant, just trying to understand from your view. Thanks. 

I'll just reply to save the wall of text.

Thanks for the examples, I'm sure it is not an easy topic to discuss for you. 

In answer to your question, yes I have experienced that due to my skin color which is something I cannot change. Gotta love cheap places to stay in NY, was followed and taunted by a group, late at night, in the "wrong neighborhood. Best to focus on the positive interactions though and let the bad apples go.

The original point of the thread was the idea of "coming out". Your family examples seem like good reason to "come out" to your family and close friends, I can obviously understand doing that, it makes perfect sense and I imagine is necessary.

I guess the thing I don't agree with is the public coming out that Sams did. He previously told his teammates, just like a normal person would tell their family and friends. That makes sense to me. However going to ESPN and making a proclamation still does not make a lot of sense to me. According to some reports, his family found out by watching ESPN. 

Telling people who are important to you and does not define you by your preference. Seeking an interview on ESPN and announcing to the world is different IMO and whether intended or not shifts the focus from the person (or in this case their ability to play football) to their preference. It could almost be seen as placing him in a box that IMO he really doesn't need to be in. Whether that reaction is fair or not is up for contention I suppose. But I had never heard of this guy before (don't follow college ball) and now I know him only as the guy who announced he was gay before the draft. Rather than knowing him as the star college guy who got drafted in the first round for being awesome. 

So I guess my contention is not just with Sams, coming out but also with the media making it a big deal and perhaps making him feel like he had no choice but to control the story by telling it first. IMO it should not be a story. I guess my only other thought is I don't see this as good for gay people, like I said it puts him in a box and defines him for a lot of people whether he likes it or not, it shifts the focus from him as a person to him as a gay person. 

Anyway, just some musings. Thanks for the discussion on what I am sure is not an easy topic.

Sorry, I have to quote to make a couple points.

Ok, so there is some understanding there (wrt to feeling fear due to your skin colour).  Thanks for that.

Just like your skin colour is not a preference, however, neither is sexual orientation.  Do you really think that he/we/I would choose to be gay, given all that comes along with it?  Secondly, HE IS ALREADY IN A BOX, placed there by those who think that homosexuality is wrong, a sin, or whatever.  The box is what stops so many from being who they are.  The box has some cracks, thanks to Michael Sam and Conner Mertens.  Once the box is gone, there will be NO NEED for announcements on ESPN.  People will just be able to be who they are.  Until then, there has to be a first, and a second, and a one hundredth.  Until it is accepted.

Anyone who is gay and into sports (and their supporters) has likely been following along with the "You Can Play" movement.  Wade Davis, the Executive Director, was an NFL player who came out well after his career was over.  Patrick Burke, son of Brian Burke (currently admin with the NHL's Calgary Flames) is the President--his brother was gay.  They have recently been travelling to US Colleges to combat homophobia in sports.  As LB has said, there has always been a 'Don't ask, don't tell' attitude in sports.  Someone has to be out publicly, for that to change.  If he was 'outed' by the media, which was likely given that he was out to his friends/teammates, the spin would have been that he was trying to hide it.  What if he didn't come out, got drafted, was in the locker room with his teammates for a time, then was outed?  There would be huge backlash.  Maybe there still will be. 

For the record, I don't find this a difficult topic.  I appreciate the sentiment, but it proves a point.  Once no one sees it as 'not an easy topic', we won't need the Michael Sams of the world to announce publicly.

Thank you for the discussion as well.  Peace.

Maybe Philly will take him. We certainly need help with the pass rush, and have a 3rd and 4th round pick in the draft. Philly is very gay-friendly.

Don't forget, the Eagles hired Vick. Gay >> dog-killer.

Phew, we climbed up the 'Most Hated' list a little bit.  

I sure hope you didn't take it that way! Maybe I should have used ≠ (not equal to).

Although I have to say living in my little urban bubble I didn't realize how much homophobia there still is out there until I read some of the comments posted on the sports blogs. Just sad.

Sorry, I have to quote to make a couple points.

Ok, so there is some understanding there (wrt to feeling fear due to your skin colour).  Thanks for that.

Just like your skin colour is not a preference, however, neither is sexual orientation.  Do you really think that he/we/I would choose to be gay, given all that comes along with it?  Secondly, HE IS ALREADY IN A BOX, placed there by those who think that homosexuality is wrong, a sin, or whatever.  The box is what stops so many from being who they are.  The box has some cracks, thanks to Michael Sam and Conner Mertens.  Once the box is gone, there will be NO NEED for announcements on ESPN.  People will just be able to be who they are.  Until then, there has to be a first, and a second, and a one hundredth.  Until it is accepted.

Anyone who is gay and into sports (and their supporters) has likely been following along with the "You Can Play" movement.  Wade Davis, the Executive Director, was an NFL player who came out well after his career was over.  Patrick Burke, son of Brian Burke (currently admin with the NHL's Calgary Flames) is the President--his brother was gay.  They have recently been travelling to US Colleges to combat homophobia in sports.  As LB has said, there has always been a 'Don't ask, don't tell' attitude in sports.  Someone has to be out publicly, for that to change.  If he was 'outed' by the media, which was likely given that he was out to his friends/teammates, the spin would have been that he was trying to hide it.  What if he didn't come out, got drafted, was in the locker room with his teammates for a time, then was outed?  There would be huge backlash.  Maybe there still will be. 

For the record, I don't find this a difficult topic.  I appreciate the sentiment, but it proves a point.  Once no one sees it as 'not an easy topic', we won't need the Michael Sams of the world to announce publicly.

Thank you for the discussion as well.  Peace.

Your post is exactly why I have always made it a point to let my kids know that I don't consider gay people differently than I consider any other person.  I wouldn't want a child of mine to live a single minute thinking they had to hide that from me, or that I would somehow consider them differently than I do now. 

So far they seem like happy people......that's all I care about.

That is awesome.  But I continue to wait for the day when you don't have to make it a point. 

I bet you do......I think you'll see it in your lifetime, at least I hope so. My kids openly talk about their friends from school who are gay.......can you imagine that even 10 years ago?