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The catch, high elbow made simple! (Page 2)
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 2014-03-12 5:22 PM in reply to: blueyedbikergirl |
New user  230   penticton |  Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple!of course, in 3 minutes of video...only a little is said and communicated. it s a lot easier for me to work with athletes in person and be able to correct them. but a few points: -how to remove the black dot from the elbow: you dont...those are scare from war...people pay for tattoo...now you got yourself awesome free dots...be proud! -my shoulder isnt flexible. i m a big muscular dude...i cant get my arm to do that movement. well, let me first tell you that if you can do this movement on the first day you watch the video..i m gonna be really PI$$ because it took me 10+ year to developp a good catch  That said, YES, it s normal to feel restriction. YES it s normal to not feel flexible enough.... but working in person with athlete, i have rarely see someone that could not do the movement after i took there arm myself and move it in the right position. there isnt a huge amount of flexibility needed and from my experience on deck...it s RARE that someone wont be able to achieve it. it does take time....but when you make those change...the increase in speed is spectacular and very rewarding. -injury. I have see about none. ith triathlete swimming 2-5 times a week between 1500-3000m each session...it s not enough to produce a big enough stress for shoulder injury. i jsut dont see any and not a concern of mine. it s something we see much more with our elite athlete swimming 9-11 times a week 5000m each session + my recommendation...learn to love the water...pass lots of time in it. get a good coach on deck...do some video analysis, be a student of your sport. the process is very rewarding. And if you come by Penticton, BC...stop by for a open water swim...so much more to learn! |
| 2014-03-12 8:04 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Master 1858  Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! THANK YOU!!! I watched the video several times over the last couple days and practiced at work as well. Today I went to the pool for my usual 1000m easy swim and instantly cut almost 60 SECONDS off of my usual time. I went from finishing around 19:45-20:00 to 18:48 today. I am so pleased I am beside myself. Assuming I didn't count my laps wrong (I really don't think so) this is the biggest improvement I've made in my swimming in the last two years. I'll admit its possible that I dialed up my usual effort a bit but my pace today was slightly faster than my fastest Oly race time, and that was wearing a wetsuit... |
| 2014-03-13 6:49 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Very good video, Jonathan! I like your explanation and demonstration, and am going to share it on my facebook page. The only caveat I'd echo is the one to those who learned to swim as adults and/or those with limited shoulder mobility. You demonstrate an impressive amount of internal shoulder rotation that isn't achievable right off the couch for many people, IME. I think you give a fantastic example of what to strive for, but just caution beginners not to get frustrated if they cannot achieve that immediately. It's one example of why excellence doesn't occur over night.
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| 2014-03-13 7:14 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by TriMyBest It's one example of why excellence doesn't occur over night.
Really? I want my money back!!  |
| 2014-03-13 7:17 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by TriMyBest It's one example of why excellence doesn't occur over night. Really? I want my money back!!
Double or nothing?
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| 2014-03-13 7:34 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! i m also a onset adult swimmer. And the movement didn't feel natural or was i able to do it fully 10 years ago. And i agree with you this is where the challenge is with new swimmers. How to implement this change. I find it easier for me to be on deck, get them out of the water and manually rotate there shoulder myself. They get surprise when they completely relax and let go .... how much range of motion there is... now, if you can simply have them learn to relax...stop those antagonist muscle from blocking the rotation like i do manually on them...we have a very nice movement. All this to prove the there is no substitute for a good coach on deck!!! |
| 2014-03-13 10:30 AM in reply to: JZig |
New user 247 Kenosha | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! I watched the 3 minute video and executed today at the pool. My sets (typically 500's and 1000s yards) improved by 3 seconds per hundred! I was averaging 1:37's...Today 1:34's! I actually looked at my Garmin 910xt and compared it to the clock on the wall to make sure the watch was working correctly. This has been my biggest improvement in the pool and with no extra effort! And I got faster in the later sets. Unbelievable. Thanks for sharing!!! Cyndi |
| 2014-03-13 12:53 PM in reply to: 0 |
New user 324 | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! I had no idea that is what high elbow means. cool video. thanks. Edited by braciole 2014-03-13 12:54 PM |
| 2014-03-14 8:38 AM in reply to: braciole |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by braciole I had no idea that is what high elbow means. cool video. thanks. Jonnyo, Suzanne and Scott - a quick post to say thank you (again) for your input here and on other threads. I'm the adult onset swimmer, for sure (always been in the water, but only swimming laps the last year or two), and have struggled figuring out form. The info you've put up here on BT have been hugely helpful in that regard. Proof is in the pudding, too. Did a 1,000 yard test yesterday and took just over 5 seconds per 100 off my late January time. Some of that is likely fitness, but I suspect a BIG chunk of it is from implementing what you've described on BT recently. So, THANKS AGAIN! Matt |
| 2014-03-14 9:48 AM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! I saw this list someone posted in Jonnyo's version of this thread on ST, and thought I post it here. Great reminders. If anyone is looking to up their swimming frequency, consider joining the "n + 1" swim challenge starting tomorrow :)
The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming 1. Conditioning trumps drills.Technique matters, but the way most athletes try to improve technique doesn’t work. Get fitter, and your ability to hold good technique improves. It takes a lot of work to develop aerobic conditioning in your upper body. If you think you are already swimming a lot but are not improving, swim more and keep at it. There are no shortcuts. 2. Traditional drills don’t work.The type of drills and the way that most triathletes do them don’t actually have any material effect on swimming technique.  3. Swim more often.Frequency is the best way to improve your swimming. Also see rule #44. Do longer main sets.You can’t expect to swim fast and be fresh on the bike if you rarely do main sets with the same or higher volume and pace than you expect in the race. For short course these should be at least 2km, for IM 4km, or more. And that looks like 20-50×100, not many short broken sets adding up to 2-5km. 5. Don’t over think it. Don’t under think it. Be engaged with what you are doing in the water, and use tools to help get a better feel for the water. But don’t over think every stroke, and suffer from paralysis by analysis. Swimming fast is about rhythm and flow, when good technique becomes automatic. 6. Increased swim fitness translates to the bike and run. Being able to swim harder, starting the bike both fresher and with faster riders is how that works. 7. Deep swim fitness allows you to swim on the rivet. See rule #6. Most triathletes don’t know how to really swim hard for the duration.
9. Don’t count strokes. See rule #2. The objective is to get faster, not take fewer strokes. 10. Learn now to use your kick but don’t spend a lot of time with kick sets. Kicking is about stroke control and body position, not propulsion for triathlon. Kick fitness doesn’t matter. 11. Use a band frequently. The best swimming drill there is. Do short reps with lots of rest at first. Both propulsion and body position will improve. 12. Use paddles with awareness of engaging lats. Paddles are primarily a technical tool to take more strokes with better mechanics, the result of which is learning how to use your prime swimming movers: your lats.
14. Do many short repetitions for stroke quality. It takes fitness to swim with good technique for long durations. Start shorter, and swim faster. 50×50 works wonders. Don’t have time to do a 2500m main set? Drop the warm up and warm down. 15. Learn to swim with a higher stroke rate. This takes conditioning. It will pay off on race day, and particularly anytime swimming in a group and in rough conditions. 16. If you need to write your swim session down on the white board or paper, it’s too complicated. Keep it simple. 17. Find a good masters programme. Long main sets is a good sign. Swim with others to challenge yourself. Good programmes are the exception rather than the norm, unfortunately. 18. Don’t use swim tools as a crutch. Paddles and bull buoys are tools with specific uses. Don’t reach for them out of simple laziness, because the set is hard. 19. Do use swim tools when you are very fatigued, and will otherwise swim with poor quality. See Rule #18. 20. Dry land and gym can help swimming for some via improved neuromuscular recruitment. Use body weight and tubing not machines. Bonus: Love swimming if you want to get faster. Embrace the process of getting faster in the water. Chlorine sweat is a good thing. I would also Add:  - Work on shoulder flexibility- to naturally gain more distance to your propulsion (likely improve your technique naturally)- Learn a variety of swim strokes to help balance overuse. Once you learn how to do fly, incorporate at least 500m of total fly distance into most of your workouts - Try to swim greater than 12km per week if you expect significant changes in your swimming (Pre Competition and Competition Phase). - For Ironman, swimming 5-6km or 125% of your race distance 4-5 times before the big day is recommended. Follow the rules above to swim faster, and ultimately to be a faster triathlete. Enjoy. -Coach Cal |
| 2014-03-14 11:38 AM in reply to: switch |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Flexible? I thought her head was sketchily photoshopped on backwards at first glance! So, you're sayin' that to get better, I have to swim hard and a lot. Hmmm… sounds about right! Off to the pool. Matt |
| 2014-03-14 3:49 PM in reply to: switch |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! switch the first 20 tips are great and Bang on by one of the best coach in the world of triathlon. then, the last 4 tips let me perplex.... just not the same level of coaching or understanding of the sport. just not sound advice -fly (for most, a waste of time) -4 strokes to prevent imbalance etc... a bit of a myth really. -swimming 5000-6000m overdistance to get ready for a ironman? well, i sure dont...and most of my athlete dont. that isnt important if you have good decent weekly milage. Even brett sutton that is well know for big miles didnt care much for more than 4000m + session. what matter is what kind of qaulity you put in those session. anyway, it s my opinion and others might not agree. but the last 4 the guy is missing the boat in term of quality advice. |
| 2014-03-14 3:59 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by jonnyo switch the first 20 tips are great and Bang on by one of the best coach in the world of triathlon. then, the last 4 tips let me perplex.... just not the same level of coaching or understanding of the sport. just not sound advice -fly (for most, a waste of time) -4 strokes to prevent imbalance etc... a bit of a myth really. -swimming 5000-6000m overdistance to get ready for a ironman? well, i sure dont...and most of my athlete dont. that isnt important if you have good decent weekly milage. Even brett sutton that is well know for big miles didnt care much for more than 4000m + session. what matter is what kind of qaulity you put in those session. anyway, it s my opinion and others might not agree. but the last 4 the guy is missing the boat in term of quality advice. Well, that's actually good to hear. I copied the whole thing from his website, but actually just meant to grab the first 20 tips, and when I read those last four I got a little deflated. There ain't no part of me that wants to do (or can do) 500 of fly/ workout, and I don't train for fulls (yet), but the idea of regular 5-6K sessions sounds daunting. I read on ST that you recommend dropping the WU and CD if you're short on time and going right into the MS. I've done that regularly and have felt guilty about it. Good to know this is Jonnyo approved :) Also, really think your advice about developing a love for the water is where it's at. The whole swim changed for me once I changed my attitude. It's really a whole different game.
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| 2014-03-14 4:18 PM in reply to: switch |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! I have often ask athlete to do the main set only if they are time limited... but now i have a little baby girl (4months). i have discover my own medicine.... 10X200m at threshold on 3min (30min quality session) back just in time for baby feed!!!! don't feel guilty. you are getting the work done.....it counts! |
| 2014-03-25 8:19 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Regular 287 Levittown, PA | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Just wanted to say thanks for posting this video. I watched it several times and I have used it my last 3 swim sessions. I have watched numerous videos in the past but for some reason this one just seemed to click with me. My first HIM is scheduled for September and my goal was to finish the swim in anything averaging under 2:00 per 100 yard pace. Previously I was able to keep a 2:00 pace for longer distances but I was getting pretty tired during those sessions. Today I did 4 x 400 yards averaging almost exactly a 1:57 pace per 100 yards for all 4 of them and still had much more in the tank, which is exactly what I want coming out of the water in my HIM. My catch feels much more anchored. My hand used to slip thru the water but now I am feeling more pressure on my hand and forearm and I can feel my body covering much more distance with each pull. Just this little adjustment to my catch and high elbow has reaped so many benefits. Not only am I faster, but I am faster with using less effort. Probably the biggest improvement I have had in swimming since starting just over a year ago. Thanks Johnnyo |
| 2014-03-25 12:35 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Master 2725 Washington, DC Metro | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Great vid... and I love the swill ball trick, now I've got another thing to do in the gym to look like a tri-dork to all the meat-heads!! |
| 2014-03-25 3:13 PM in reply to: switch |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! |
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