racism (Page 3)

So based upon the quote above, it would not be racist for a white person to only do business with other white people?  And male only clubs are o.k.?  And not working with gays is o.k.?  It is just people chosing to work with only people like themselves?  

That in itself is an awful statement.

Interesting thread.  For me, it's hard to put words to what FEELS right or wrong.

Honestly, I would probably lump any preconceived notions about a group based purely on the color of their skin (or whatever you tool is to differentiate race) as racism...

I understand the definition is if you base that someone if inferior due to race, then it's racism - so the rest is stereotyping and prejudice?

For example, if someone were to say that African Americans are better athletes, or Asians are better at math, or Jewish people are better with money...  You know, the typical crap people spit out and pretend it's a compliment?  That's not saying those races or inferior.  In fact, it's saying they are superior.  So saying that is the opposite of racism?  I don't know, doesn't pass the smell test.

I guess it's easier for me to bypass the semantics and just goes what feels right and just not assume someone's abilities or personality based on skin color or eye shape.  Saying you don't want black people in your buildings or in your basketball arena, even for no other reason that you don't want it and NOT because you think they are inferior (so technically not racism), makes it no less awful, IMO.  Doesn't matter what you classify it, wrong is wrong.

Those extreme groups like the KKK or what have you?  They are comical to me.  Saying the white race is superior?  That dismisses most of the contributions other races have made throughout history.  Numbers, Zero, Alphabet, Writing, Paper, Gunpowder and thousands more - not by white guys...Racial superiority is a nonsense concept.  Maybe in a particular moment in time, a particular race may be the big kid on the block and bully everyone else so they think the other races are inferior, but they are just fooling themselves only because they can beat up anyone who contradicts them at the moment.

All these had their moment:

Mayans Civilization, Greeks, Pharaonic Egypt, Chin's Empire, Assyrians, Persian empire, Hellenistic kingdoms, Roman Empire, Ottoman empire, British empire, Russian empire,

I'm sure when they were on top, they thought the other races were inferior.  Who was going to say they were wrong?

Interesting thread.  For me, it's hard to put words to what FEELS right or wrong.

Honestly, I would probably lump any preconceived notions about a group based purely on the color of their skin (or whatever you tool is to differentiate race) as racism...

I understand the definition is if you base that someone if inferior due to race, then it's racism - so the rest is stereotyping and prejudice?

For example, if someone were to say that African Americans are better athletes, or Asians are better at math, or Jewish people are better with money...  You know, the typical crap people spit out and pretend it's a compliment?  That's not saying those races or inferior.  In fact, it's saying they are superior.  So saying that is the opposite of racism?  I don't know, doesn't pass the smell test.

Pretty sure I disagree with you. If you choose to only buy from people of your own race, that's fairly discriminatory. Flip it around to the shop owner, if he only sold to people of his own race and hung up a sign stating his "preference," that isn't discriminatory?

What I always find comical about the KKK and their "racial superiority" is that they're typically not the sharpest pencils in the drawer.  Kind of hard to claim superiority when you're at the bottom 5% of your own race.  Oh wait, did I just stereotype the KKK members... oops (please forgive me)

Another thing your post made me think about is how we humans always seem to find ways to try and be "superior" to others and group people accordingly.  For example, my kids go to a school and they are taught school and district pride.  They all believe that they are in the "best" school in the best district and they're better than all the others because of it.  We go to college and the admissions director flat out tells my son that because my kids go to the school they go to, he'll get special consideration with his GPA and class rank due to his school.  He's prejudged, essentially, because of the school he goes to which means the kids not going to his school are prejudged in a less favorable way based solely on the color of their school T-shirt.
We live in Omaha and the city does everything it can to market itself as the "best" city in the "best" state in the "best" country.  
Obviously, neither of these are racial in any way, but they're feeding into our human nature to want to classify everyone into various categories and treat them accordingly.

I'm not sure if it's natural or a learned behavior, but obviously many aspects of "superiority" are accepted and even encouraged in our society.

Well, you forget I separate discrimination and racism. I remember the whole thing when black community leaders wanted to promote black businesses... I didn't really see a problem... people claim reverse racism. Whites still own this country. Blacks still only make ~10%. community leaders were trying to keep the money in the community to help it grow. I see that as a positive thing. It isn't like there isn't a ton of businesses whitey owns to go shop in if one wants to. Same thing with "Buy American", "Local Growers", or women supporting women business leaders. What about fraternity brothers and sisters supporting fraternity brothers and sister... networking... on and on and on. Seriously, you are trying to tell me I can't spend my money and support the businesses I want to support?

No, that would actually be illegal as defined by law. One I agree with. As far as the philosophy... that's the whole point. It really is not that difficult to tell if one is trying to be exclusionary, and one is just trying to support.

All I have is my gut. I generally know when someone is trying to tear down someone else, someone is simply misguided or misinformed, and when someone is just trying to help. I enjoy flogging intellectual inconsistencies to death as much as anyone, but in the real world, I generally know when I meet an a$$ whole. I never said I have it all figured out for everyone. I just have it figured out for me. It's worked OK to this point. YMMV.

Well, you forget I separate discrimination and racism. I remember the whole thing when black community leaders wanted to promote black businesses... I didn't really see a problem... people claim reverse racism. Whites still own this country. Blacks still only make ~10%. community leaders were trying to keep the money in the community to help it grow. I see that as a positive thing. It isn't like there isn't a ton of businesses whitey owns to go shop in if one wants to. Same thing with "Buy American", "Local Growers", or women supporting women business leaders. What about fraternity brothers and sisters supporting fraternity brothers and sister... networking... on and on and on. Seriously, you are trying to tell me I can't spend my money and support the businesses I want to support?

Darned busy work days screwing up my posting!

Supporting your community does not mean excluding others. If I lived in Philly's Chinatown (there's a bunch of yuppy lofts there now) and shopped locally at Asian markets, is that discriminatory? Back to the definition of race and racism. Buying American, local produce, or whatever is not racial in nature. Yes, intent is hard to gauge, but someone who uses race as their driver for decision making is clearly racist. If you buy ONLY at stores owned by a particular racial group, in our out of your local community, then yes, that's probably racism.

And... it get's worse... you have to factor in harm. What harm are you doing? When you exclude, tell someone they are not welcome, tell them you won't hire them, tell them are not worthy... that is harm. When I am going to make a purchase anyway, and I want to support someone else, and I buy from my race, based on helping out my race.... really, I just harmed every single store owner of different races with in driving range??? No I didn't. I made a choice of where I want to go. There is a difference, at least to me anyway.

That one example made headlines... it was a decision based on race... but it was not a decision to do harm to other races. It was a decision by a minority race to support minority businesses of the same minority race. And instead of expecting the government to come in and force crap, they decided to do it themselves. I don't see that as harmful. I do not see it as hateful. I do not see that with the intent to hurt. A$$ wholes are just not that hard to spot.

There isn't a warn cuddly racism that is only slightly wrong... there is only one racism to me that is very wrong, ugly, and hateful. That is how I see it. Discriminatory acts, and stereotyping silliness may be wrong, but it's just not that bad. They are different words. They are not synonyms. Racism is certainly discriminatory. But discrimination is not necessarily racism. Again, if my definitions do not work, then don't use them. Not trying to be snarky... it's just all I got. Maybe it does not make sense typed in words on a screen, but I have it straight in my head. Works for me. 

Discrimination isn't always racism, but racism is always discrimination. Not all discrimination is racial. I can agree with that. And I can agree with your idea of harm being an important factor. I still disagree with you about making purchases solely based on race. To me that's still racism.