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Question about Judges...
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 2014-05-20 1:45 PM |
Pro  5761     Bartlett, TN |  Subject: Question about Judges...Why do States have elections on issues where the majority may vote one way on a topic, only to have a judge come in and be able to overturn that issue?
(This is not a thread about whether that issue is right or wrong about soley about how a judge can do this) |
| 2014-05-20 2:22 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by jford2309 Why do States have elections on issues where the majority may vote one way on a topic, only to have a judge come in and be able to overturn that issue?
(This is not a thread about whether that issue is right or wrong about soley about how a judge can do this) Jusges make ruling based on the law and precedent.....don't dispair, some judge with greater authority usually overurns the lower judge anyway.....it's how they all keep working. |
| 2014-05-20 2:26 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... like a state wide referendum? Are you talking state or federal judge? I can see the federal judge because that is the supreme law of the land. |
| 2014-05-20 2:35 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Checks and balances. |
| 2014-05-20 2:35 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
| Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Federal judges are appointed for life. I know it's a different issue, but the justification is that a judge interprets the law, and the founders wanted judges to be able to be countermajoritarian without risk of politicial influence (hey, it's an ideal). States are elected of course, but have the same function. Just because a law is passed does not mean it is constitutional and or legal under some other paradigm. A populace can pass an unconsitutional law. And a court can enforce or overturn it |
| 2014-05-21 7:59 AM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by chirunner134 like a state wide referendum? Are you talking state or federal judge? I can see the federal judge because that is the supreme law of the land. Not exactly..... Only if the federal law falls under the enumerated powers of Congress to enact ...(but who follows that pesky Constitution now anyways...) |
| 2014-05-21 9:15 AM in reply to: Goosedog |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by Goosedog Checks and balances. ^^^This. The U.S. Constitution and State constitutions are set up specifically to guarantee that there is checks and balances and that no one arm of the Government has all of the power. Thus the Legislative, Executive and Judiciary branches. Just because people vote on a referendum or legislators pass a particular law, does not mean it complies with the Constitution or with preexisting law. |
| 2014-05-21 1:47 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by jford2309 Why do States have elections on issues where the majority may vote one way on a topic, only to have a judge come in and be able to overturn that issue?
(This is not a thread about whether that issue is right or wrong about soley about how a judge can do this) A judge finally said you can't have relations with sheep in Tennessee, huh? |
| 2014-05-21 2:32 PM in reply to: mr2tony |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by jford2309 A judge finally said you can't have relations with sheep in Tennessee, huh? Why do States have elections on issues where the majority may vote one way on a topic, only to have a judge come in and be able to overturn that issue?
(This is not a thread about whether that issue is right or wrong about soley about how a judge can do this) Damn. LMAO |
| 2014-05-21 10:52 PM in reply to: topolina |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Goosedog Checks and balances. ^^^This. The U.S. Constitution and State constitutions are set up specifically to guarantee that there is checks and balances and that no one arm of the Government has all of the power. Thus the Legislative, Executive and Judiciary branches. Just because people vote on a referendum or legislators pass a particular law, does not mean it complies with the Constitution or with preexisting law. This ^^^ The majority still has to follow the law. |
| 2014-05-22 9:05 AM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... In my career I've watched some pretty wacked out judges cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. Checks and balances are in place for sure, but while those are being worked out a crazy judge can cause quite a mess. They actually weild a tremendous amount of power. |
| 2014-05-23 6:17 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by Left Brain In my career I've watched some pretty wacked out judges cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. Checks and balances are in place for sure, but while those are being worked out a crazy judge can cause quite a mess. They actually weild a tremendous amount of power. Exactly what the appeal system is for. I agree and, unfortunately, have practiced in front of a few judges who made decisions based on their own agenda and cronyism, and not on the law. Hey, we are all human and imperfect. Frustrating some time, but reality. |
| 2014-05-23 9:49 AM in reply to: topolina |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... It seems like it would be better to have the issue reviewed by the court before the people vote on it wouldn't it? Seems like that is the reason for a lot of hostilty in the country. Voters vote one way, then a judge overturns what the people voted for.
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| 2014-05-23 12:56 PM in reply to: jford2309 |
New user 324 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by jford2309 It seems like it would be better to have the issue reviewed by the court before the people vote on it wouldn't it? Seems like that is the reason for a lot of hostilty in the country. Voters vote one way, then a judge overturns what the people voted for.
Courts generally don't issue advisory opinions. They limit their involvement to actual fights between people. So, Court won't weigh in on the legality of a law before its passed. But, once law gets passed, if someone feels aggrieved by it they can sue, and the Court will weigh in on the issue (assuming the person the harm the person is claiming is really an injury (from a legal perspective), that the injury is traceable to the person they sued, and the court can do something about it). |
| 2014-05-23 7:46 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Left Brain Exactly what the appeal system is for. I agree and, unfortunately, have practiced in front of a few judges who made decisions based on their own agenda and cronyism, and not on the law. Hey, we are all human and imperfect. Frustrating some time, but reality. In my career I've watched some pretty wacked out judges cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. Checks and balances are in place for sure, but while those are being worked out a crazy judge can cause quite a mess. They actually weild a tremendous amount of power. I agree, but the appeals system needs to be sped up. There are real people being affected by decisions made by "judges who made decisions based on their own agenda" .....to use your words. People would have more faith in the system if that were the case. After nearly 30 years working within the "system" I think it's a model for the world, but rogue judges should be removed from the bench immediately. There is too much cronyism on the part of judges and lawyers. Yes, I realize my opinion is idealistic, but we should strive for an end to it, the same way we should strive for an end to bad Police Officers being protected by rank and file Officers. Edited by Left Brain 2014-05-23 7:49 PM |
| 2014-05-24 9:25 AM in reply to: 0 |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Left Brain Exactly what the appeal system is for. I agree and, unfortunately, have practiced in front of a few judges who made decisions based on their own agenda and cronyism, and not on the law. Hey, we are all human and imperfect. Frustrating some time, but reality. In my career I've watched some pretty wacked out judges cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. Checks and balances are in place for sure, but while those are being worked out a crazy judge can cause quite a mess. They actually weild a tremendous amount of power. I agree, but the appeals system needs to be sped up. There are real people being affected by decisions made by "judges who made decisions based on their own agenda" .....to use your words. People would have more faith in the system if that were the case. After nearly 30 years working within the "system" I think it's a model for the world, but rogue judges should be removed from the bench immediately. There is too much cronyism on the part of judges and lawyers. Yes, I realize my opinion is idealistic, but we should strive for an end to it, the same way we should strive for an end to bad Police Officers being protected by rank and file Officers. Our judicial system is, and should be (IMO), the model for the world. It is made imperfect though, simply because fallible human beings are involved (like just about everything else we touch.) I do agree that we shouldn't be complacent and just accept it the way it is though. There is definitely room for reform. But then that brings us back to the other branches of the government, who also have their own agendas. Not easy to fight against. I too have been in the "system" nearly 30 years (28) and have had my share of frustration. That is why I pretty much dropped out and now only consult (no suits and no court or clients anymore). Maybe that is the easy way out, but I needed that for my sanity. Just lost respect for my peers and the "system." BTW, I was never in private practice. Was a Navy JAG, then counsel for a large corp, then public service attorney (legal services), then Asst. States Attorney, then child welfare attorney. So, that is where my perspective comes from. Edited by topolina 2014-05-24 9:29 AM |
| 2014-05-25 8:02 PM in reply to: topolina |
Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Left Brain Our judicial system is, and should be (IMO), the model for the world. It is made imperfect though, simply because fallible human beings are involved (like just about everything else we touch.) I do agree that we shouldn't be complacent and just accept it the way it is though. There is definitely room for reform. But then that brings us back to the other branches of the government, who also have their own agendas. Not easy to fight against. I too have been in the "system" nearly 30 years (28) and have had my share of frustration. That is why I pretty much dropped out and now only consult (no suits and no court or clients anymore). Maybe that is the easy way out, but I needed that for my sanity. Just lost respect for my peers and the "system." BTW, I was never in private practice. Was a Navy JAG, then counsel for a large corp, then public service attorney (legal services), then Asst. States Attorney, then child welfare attorney. So, that is where my perspective comes from. Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Left Brain Exactly what the appeal system is for. I agree and, unfortunately, have practiced in front of a few judges who made decisions based on their own agenda and cronyism, and not on the law. Hey, we are all human and imperfect. Frustrating some time, but reality. In my career I've watched some pretty wacked out judges cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. Checks and balances are in place for sure, but while those are being worked out a crazy judge can cause quite a mess. They actually weild a tremendous amount of power. I agree, but the appeals system needs to be sped up. There are real people being affected by decisions made by "judges who made decisions based on their own agenda" .....to use your words. People would have more faith in the system if that were the case. After nearly 30 years working within the "system" I think it's a model for the world, but rogue judges should be removed from the bench immediately. There is too much cronyism on the part of judges and lawyers. Yes, I realize my opinion is idealistic, but we should strive for an end to it, the same way we should strive for an end to bad Police Officers being protected by rank and file Officers.
I vote against every judge in every election, whether I know them or not. Also, thank you for your service! My BIL joined the Army Reserves at 40 years old so that he could join the JAG. He hopes to be an immigration judge one day. I hope that someday I get the chance to vote against him. |
| 2014-05-25 8:39 PM in reply to: moondawg14 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... Originally posted by moondawg14 Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Left Brain Our judicial system is, and should be (IMO), the model for the world. It is made imperfect though, simply because fallible human beings are involved (like just about everything else we touch.) I do agree that we shouldn't be complacent and just accept it the way it is though. There is definitely room for reform. But then that brings us back to the other branches of the government, who also have their own agendas. Not easy to fight against. I too have been in the "system" nearly 30 years (28) and have had my share of frustration. That is why I pretty much dropped out and now only consult (no suits and no court or clients anymore). Maybe that is the easy way out, but I needed that for my sanity. Just lost respect for my peers and the "system." BTW, I was never in private practice. Was a Navy JAG, then counsel for a large corp, then public service attorney (legal services), then Asst. States Attorney, then child welfare attorney. So, that is where my perspective comes from. Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by Left Brain Exactly what the appeal system is for. I agree and, unfortunately, have practiced in front of a few judges who made decisions based on their own agenda and cronyism, and not on the law. Hey, we are all human and imperfect. Frustrating some time, but reality. In my career I've watched some pretty wacked out judges cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. Checks and balances are in place for sure, but while those are being worked out a crazy judge can cause quite a mess. They actually weild a tremendous amount of power. I agree, but the appeals system needs to be sped up. There are real people being affected by decisions made by "judges who made decisions based on their own agenda" .....to use your words. People would have more faith in the system if that were the case. After nearly 30 years working within the "system" I think it's a model for the world, but rogue judges should be removed from the bench immediately. There is too much cronyism on the part of judges and lawyers. Yes, I realize my opinion is idealistic, but we should strive for an end to it, the same way we should strive for an end to bad Police Officers being protected by rank and file Officers.
I vote against every judge in every election, whether I know them or not. Also, thank you for your service! My BIL joined the Army Reserves at 40 years old so that he could join the JAG. He hopes to be an immigration judge one day. I hope that someday I get the chance to vote against him. I do too, because it's fun.....but it makes no difference, they're not elected. |
| 2014-06-01 9:30 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 1190 Silicon Valley | Subject: RE: Question about Judges... In this past election I for the vey first time in decades voted for judges while actually knowing something about them. Trying to get objective information is impossible. I am lucky enough to have a daughter who is an attorney. And while she does have he own biases as we all do, at least I know her character and commitment to the truth. Personally I don't think most people are qualified to vote for judges because they know absolutely nothing about any of them. That is why 'incumbent' is the most often winner. Sadly it takes two thing to unseat a judge in an election. First one or more totally outrageous actions and second, enough people to be paying attention. I have seen and heard some truly outrageous things said and done by a judge that gets reelected by a huge margin. Not sure what the answer is. |
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