General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
2014-07-28 9:45 AM
in reply to: KathyG

User image

Champion
10471
500050001001001001002525
Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Originally posted by KathyG

Sad part is folks that won their AG and did the whole course, now get moved down to a different placing. Imagine winning your AG doing the whole course as did all the top 20 folks in your AG then getting 4th when they remove second loop and T1 and missing out on KQ?

The top finishers are all getting shuffled up.

I understand the need for safety and as other have brought up why did they start the swim given the forecast and the storm cells moving in?

The aftermath for those who are in the top of their AG and wanted to KQ is a mess. I don't see any fair way to resolve it other than figuring out results both way and letting more than normal get Kona Slots.

 

That's pretty bad if people who did the ENTIRE course are being shut out of IM Kona slots against people who didn't. I hope they get it sorted out fairly. 

 



2014-07-29 12:21 AM
in reply to: #5030986

Veteran
379
100100100252525
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
having been there, no, most age groupers were not done with the swim. anyone who had not finished both loops by 1:10 was impacted. half the people were told to swim to shore now, get out and run around the lake barefoot with wet suits on, these people missed the swim exit timing map. the second group was told cut the course and swim for the finish now -- exiting at the timng arch. a very large number of people were in the changing tents at once and the first loop of the bike course was packed - with thunder, lightening and downpours the first loop of truck gradient warning descents. many people got very cold from descending, not creating heat going down hill and stopped at fuel stations to get garbage bags to wear. it cleared up for a couple hours, got very steamy hot, then the thunder and lightening was back, which again cleared later in the day - mother nature doesn't care what is 'fair'. maybe i don't think it is not fair that there was a guy that lost his brakes on the downhill in the rain so couldnt slow down, this after he did a 1:10 swim. sheesh, how is that fair for him to get a no brake advantage? in other words, please stop whining about what was and wasnt fair, especially when you werent even racing. the rd did a great job and the volunteers were amazing everyone got wet and everyone's race was impacted. it is impossible to know who did or did not complete the full two loops other than those out in 1:10. when they called the swim, some got out and ran barfefoot, others were close enough to the end they were allowed to just continue, and others were told cut the course and swim in (different directions based on how to get people to shore the fastest). my second loop was going much much faster than my first after major technical difficulties first loop, i would have liked to be judged on the whole swim, not the crappy first loop. tok bad. thats mother nature and life.

regarding why did they even start the swim? it was not raining or lightening at swim start. lightening started more than an hour after the pros started. you cant call a race based on what the weather might do.

volunteers - amazing. crowd support despite rain. amazing. monday morning complainers - not.
2014-07-29 1:23 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

User image

Master
5557
50005002525
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by jobaxas Already heard of two people who were third in their AG and Kona spots first one drops to 4th with this ruling the other to 6th. Not fair at all.
How is it not fair? Everyone raced the same race. You cannot just double someones swim time. That is making a prediction of what MIGHT happen. Ironman is about overcoming adversity. There is no way to by 100% fair to everyone. They were put in a very tough spot and had to make a quick call on the swim and how to handle results, they did the best they could and of course now all the Monday morning QB's are going to rip them apart.

How is it not fair?  How about the guys that actually winning the age group getting moved down despite swimming twice as much as the slower swimmers.  How is that even a question?

Like I said nothing is 100% fair, but to simply double someones time, usually when people fade (check IM tracker) is giving people benefit of the doubt. The RD made a call that had a lot of pressure on it. Sometimes I would like to see all the Monday morning QB's be thrown into the situation and handle all the crossfire. EDIT: I think WTC gave a lot of the Kona contenders a break by giving the Kona slots BACK to 60 after a misprint online from the original 50 that were given out with a misprint of 60 right before the race. So basically WTC handed out an additional 10 slots yesterday.

Yeah but for top AGers who are in the hunt for Kona, the fade on the 2nd loop is minimal, maybe a minute or two.

If they only count data only from lap one, it's better to double that time because now the amount of swimming in relation to the bike/run is back to normal.  Otherwise it's a disadvantage for the strong swimmers.

Also since people didn't know about the problem ahead of time, they wouldn't be swimming lap one more aggressively than usual.

2014-07-29 6:01 AM
in reply to: spudone

User image

Master
3195
20001000100252525
Just South of Boston
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
wonder if the weather issues have made folks wonder about doing IMLP? Registration is still open for individual entrants as of about 2 minutes ago.
2014-07-29 8:49 AM
in reply to: Mike_D

Member
763
5001001002525
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
Originally posted by Mike_D

wonder if the weather issues have made folks wonder about doing IMLP? Registration is still open for individual entrants as of about 2 minutes ago.


very possibly. and with the success of IMMT (similar course, plentiful hotel and condo space, better roads than LP), and the introduction of new races such as IMMD, IM Muskoka, Challenge St. Andrews and Challenge AC, perhaps folks are choosing to race elsewhere. LP was the only IM distance race in the region for a long time...now folks have choices, and if individual registration is still open, it seems that folks are voting with their feet.
2014-07-29 11:10 AM
in reply to: sheesleeva

User image

Roswell, Georgia
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Originally posted by sheesleeva

in other words, please stop whining about what was and wasnt fair, especially when you werent even racing.  

I think everyone's comments are valid, participants or not. I get that those who participated may have a different point of view, but some of the more interesting and thought-provoking comments have come from outsiders. 

I do appreciate the detail in your post as a participant, but that doesn't mean no one else can ever comment or have an opinion on the situation.



2014-07-29 11:17 AM
in reply to: lisac957

User image

Expert
3126
2000100010025
Boise, ID
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by sheesleeva

in other words, please stop whining about what was and wasnt fair, especially when you werent even racing.  

I think everyone's comments are valid, participants or not. I get that those who participated may have a different point of view, but some of the more interesting and thought-provoking comments have come from outsiders. 

I do appreciate the detail in your post as a participant, but that doesn't mean no one else can ever comment or have an opinion on the situation.

(slow clap)

 

2014-07-29 11:38 AM
in reply to: sheesleeva

User image

Champion
19812
50005000500020002000500100100100
MA
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Deb,

Where on the second loop were you when they called the swim? I can't imagine how difficult it would have been to get the word out to all the volunteers and the athletes so they heard the directions, figured where to swim to and changed course.

I had only hear they held athletes from doing the second loop not that they had folks exit the water quickly. It was implied in early things I read but as the day progressed posts and things I read made it sound like it was just stopping from doing loop 2.

On ST there was one athlete that posted he didn't know anything about the change in swim or T1 until the next day when he logged into ST which means he didn't even hear it from other athletes or volunteers throughout race day. He wasn't a fast swimmer either.

Each athletes goals for the race are different as are their race experience.

2008 IMLP it rained all but first 30' of the day and maybe 40' early evening and the storms were not predicted so it was quite a surprise to athletes who were not prepared for weather conditions.

WTC did delay the swim at Mooseman a couple of years ago based on the radar showing the thunder storm cells even though storm hadn't started at start time of the race. They didn't tell folks if it would be canceled or delayed when race was to start. Ended up doing shortened version of the race many hours later but many athletes I know left as WTC and RD didn't explain well what was going on and told them to go back to their cars which were quite a ways away and didn't communicate well in that area what was happening.

 

 

2014-07-29 12:51 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

User image

Extreme Veteran
601
500100
Cold Spring, NY
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
Originally posted by bcagle25

Looks like they had reassessed and now doing both options depending on how the AG field finished.


"We apologize for any confusion with the results process from today due to the inclement weather that interrupted the swim portion of the race. We are pleased that all athletes were able to safely leave the water and continue the race. Because of the extraordinary circumstances, we have been working to find the fairest way to today’s race results for Age Group Awards and IRONMAN World Championship qualification.


The revised criteria for Age Group Awards and IRONMAN World Championship qualification is as follows:

· For men’s age groups 18-24 and inclusive of 55-59, the time for entire race (both swim loops, T1, Bike, T2, Run) will be used
· For women’s age groups 18-24 and inclusive of 50-54, the time for the entire race (both swim loops, T1, Bike, T2, Run) will be used
· For men’s age groups 60-64 and older, the modified time (first loop of swim, bike T2, run) will be used
· For women’s age groups 55-59 and older, the modified time (first loop of swim, bike T2, run) will be used

Please note the results currently posted online reflect the one loop swim, bike, T2 and run."


This thread sure picked up a lot of momentum but as Ben pointed out, it was fixed, to the very best of IM's ability and "no animals (fast folk) were harmed in the making of this movie"

Anyone who was shooting for Kona sure as hell had better have been out of the water by ~1:20 and they are counting their whole day as it happened. No getting bumped from 1st to 6th, etc.

Here's how it worked for me: started in 1:21-1:30 seeding line, go in and swam loop one in :45. Got in again, swam 2/3 of loop two and was told to exit stage left for the shore, about 100-200 yards away, so maybe I swam 500-600 yards less than expected, then walked into a crazy T1 scene. I was a little annoyed at being pulled just for some rain, until the lightning struck and I felt terrible for the support crews, kayakers, etc. So maybe I raced 140.2, but Mike Riley still called me an Ironman and I don't feel bad about that one bit.

Timing - because i did not cross the timing mat a second time for the swim, it was negated, as was T1. So my official time was 13:52, when it should have been about 14:52 (accounting for a full second lap and T1). That free hour, that I or anyone else got, couldn't possibly affect the top age groupers shooting for Kona.

Who could have been harmed? I guess a fast swimmer who is not so fast at biking and running. For instance, someone may have crossed the finish line before me after doing the swim before the cutoff, but the internet time would show my time as faster. Well, if you are quibbling over being ranked 1825 or 1790 (or something like that), I don't know how to fix that without harming the fast folks.

Also harmed were people who really wanted to say "I swam 2.4, biked 112, ran 26.2 and I am an Ironman" but got pulled from the swim. I hope no one feels this way, because if you even swam half the swim and finished that god forsaken day, you ARE and Ironman. Now go take some Advil and brag as much as you wish. You earned it.

These races require sooo much pre-committing, training, costs, and the variables are so high. I might just move to doing 10k's for fitness. "What, the weather's bad? or I have a hangover? I'll just do a different one next week. Guess that's $35 I'll never get back...."
2014-07-29 1:28 PM
in reply to: bdenehy

User image

Champion
7704
50002000500100100
Williamston, Michigan
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Sounds like a crazy day out there. Congrats to everyone who toed the line. 

2014-07-29 1:32 PM
in reply to: #5031817

Veteran
379
100100100252525
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
if saying stop whining about how unfair a race was when you weren't even affected and without offering better solutions, in your mind equates to you can't post, then i've done my job here.

Kathy,

I was three buoys from the outbound turn when a kayak cut in front of me and told me to swim across to the back in buoys and swim back. as I saw repeated lightning strikes the thought struck me – I'm going to fry on the tri.

there was no mention of swimming over to shore and I didn't know people who had just started the back in were all sent to the shore until after my wetsuit had already been stripped and people were coming down the run course wearing wet suits.

The changing tents were so full they started telling people they need to change outside (which I'm guessing is the reason they're knocking T1 times off people's races), and with everyone finishing at once the first loop of the bike course was extremely congested, which, as you know from your monsoon race, makes those downhill decents even more dodgy ... it was all actually quite scary, humorous, crazy, invigorating and something people were still laughing about on the run - and thanking they're lucky stars they had survived - as I heard more than one person comment on the run, it added to the overall experience.

The organizers did an amazing job of keeping everyone safe, and letting people still have their day and the volunteers could not have been better. people were so cold the chicken broth came out already on the bike course and they were handing out garbage bags as substitute rain jackets for those desperately needing something and left T-1 in tanks as the first two hours of the race were actually quite warm.

I had stolen from Sue's playbook and had dry clothes socks shoes and raingear inside large Ziploc bags in every transition bag and special-needs bag. your and sue's past cold rainy race misery and helpful himts stories kept me and my feet warmer and dryer than most. #noblisters, #happyfeet







2014-07-29 1:35 PM
in reply to: sheesleeva

User image

Roswell, Georgia
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early

Originally posted by sheesleeva if saying stop whining about how unfair a race was when you weren't even affected and without offering better solutions, in your mind equates to you can't post, then i've done my job here.  

Except you didn't say the bolded.

Again, I appreciate the detail you are providing, along with everyone else's thoughts from this unique situation.

2014-07-29 1:36 PM
in reply to: KathyG

User image

Master
1967
10005001001001001002525
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
Originally posted by KathyG

2008 IMLP it rained all but first 30' of the day and maybe 40' early evening and the storms were not predicted so it was quite a surprise to athletes who were not prepared for weather conditions.


I raced that year too, and the descents were scary. It sounds like this year was worse. I can't imagine what it must have been like.

Kudos to all who made it through regardless of the shortened swim.
2014-07-29 11:21 PM
in reply to: MUL98

User image

Coach
9166
5000200020001002525
Stairway to Seven
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
I was spectating at the swim chute after t1 when midway through the age groupers, a 2nd line of athletes joined those already in the chute. All swimmers out on the course when the lightening started were ushered to the nearest shore/nearest exit of the lake by all the volunteers on the lake.

It was chaotic as a spectator, but it was pretty obvoius what was goign on and few of the athletes looked happy at that point. The rain was a downpour, thunder overhead & lightening...it was scary.

I am proud of myself for surviving the day as a spectator ... I have great respect for all the athletes who finished that day!
2014-07-30 5:42 AM
in reply to: AdventureBear

User image


164
1002525
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
Just another perspective on the swim...

I was planning on lining up in the 1:20 - 1:30 time frame and unfortunately got stuck in a line for a Port-O-Let (maybe 45 minutes). By the time I got in line, there was no getting past the 2:00 people because the corral was packed so tightly. No big deal through the time starts when I start. First lap was a great morning until about the last buoy when it went from not raining to downpour instantly. Again no big deal, I'm already soaked. As I approached the final buoys before the turn of my second lap I began to think I was seeing flashes when I took breathes. With police boat and cameras I assumed it was just lights of some sort and kept going. At the turn I realize it was lightning pretty severely and picked up my pace drastically. At this point thoughts of a lightning strike hitting the lake and taking out hundred's of people were the primary thing in my head. At the second buoy after the turn someone told me they were evacuating the swim and to head straight for shore. I got to someone's porch/dock first and proceeded to spend a while pulling people out of the lake. Once everyone was out we were told to hit the road and start walking back towards the beach. At this point we still had no idea whether the race was over, delayed or still going. My mind cycled through thoughts of how scared my parents probably were watching from shore to I'm walking barefoot through puddles in a lightning storm to well this was a huge waste of training and money. I stopped my Garmin, but I would guess we were about a half mile or so down Mirror Lake Drive from the beach. We walked/jogged barefoot and about halfway back a vehicle went by telling us to head straight to T1 and head out for the bike. A group of wetsuit strippers met us somewhere around the Pub & Brewery and helped people with suits right in the middle of the road.

Having never done a IM before I can't compare T1 to others other than to say that the tent was packed shoulder to shoulder and felt like a steam room. You could hear announcements that T1 times would not be counted today. At bike out there was a line of probably 20 or so athletes waiting for a bottleneck to get to the mount line. I believe I went through bike out at about 2:03 on the clock. We hit the course in the pouring rain with lightning still flashing but presumably a little ways away. I remember seeing flashes and counting trying to assess how close it really was. Sometime after the Keene descent the weather cleared. We had another T-storm later in the day but for the most part the rest of the day went well and I finished the race with slightly better than planned bike and run splits.

As a first time participant I was very disappointed on the dock to think that my IM day was over. It got better when I realized it wasn't; however, I still had/have a slight feeling of an "*" beside my Ironman because of not finishing the swim. According to my Garmin I was 2.25 miles when I hit the dock. Add in the walk back and I did the distance, but not quite as normal.

As far as how is best to figure times, I don't have an answer for what is most fair. Obviously it does not affect me from a KQ or podium standpoint, but I can say that I believe I would have finished the second loop before the evacuation had I been able to seed myself properly which means in theory it could have affected someone with a shot in a similar manner.
2014-07-30 6:35 AM
in reply to: k1200rsvt

User image

Expert
819
500100100100
Subject: RE: Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early
I was there. Did the first swim loop in 42' and was on the same pace for loop 2. Had a kayak block me at the 4th of 7 buoys after the turn on loop #2. I was told to swim to shore, so I swam to the nearest shore along with hundreds of others. My time when I hit the beach was 1:18, would have finished by 1:24 on that pace. Had to run 1/2 mile on Mirror Lake Dr. to T1. I do not feel an "*" is necessary for my first IM. I swam 2.2+ miles and ran an extra 1/2 mile then white knuckled my way down the Keene descent in the wind and rain then fried and was hailed on and did a 4:55 marathon. I feel like an Ironman.

I agree that the KQs need to be expanded to include anyone who did both loops but missed out due to the elimination of loop2 and T1.


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Weather impacting IMLP - swim ended early Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Competed in Syracuse Ironman but race was ended early Pages: 1 2

Started by reverend5150
Views: 3537 Posts: 32

2013-06-27 2:45 PM mr2tony

IMLP swim start tips or any 2500+ mass swim start tips...if any Pages: 1 2

Started by FELTGood
Views: 4020 Posts: 30

2013-09-07 12:41 PM FELTGood

swimming=high impact

Started by kwc98
Views: 1071 Posts: 9

2009-09-09 10:15 AM Meerkat Surprise

Early end to my season Pages: 1 2 3

Started by Sprint_DA
Views: 2663 Posts: 55

2009-06-24 6:30 AM monkeyboy64

CO Racers- Early Bird Reg ends tomorrow for Surf n Turf

Started by mikericci
Views: 702 Posts: 1

2006-04-30 10:36 AM mikericci