Help me with my post race analysis
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2016-09-02 2:38 PM |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: Help me with my post race analysis I had my first swing at the Olympic distance last weekend and had great fun at Wasaga Beach in Ontario. I do need some help analyzing what went wrong as I found the last 5k of the ride intensely painful and jogged most of the run with terrible fatigue. The two weeks before I was on vacation and able to go riding with plenty of hills. I did two rides of about 35km each with over 1000 ft of climbing. I really enjoyed them and my felt I would boss the ride. I ran four treadmill session each about 30 minutes, three at a tempo pace on the cross country setting for some variety and the last 3 days before the race at a slow pace. I felt I had great legs for a 10k. I swam in the lake 6 days before the race to check my sighting options and get a feel for the beach run up. The swim went great. I was not fast but swam within myself. Nutrition. I made my own mix with Gatorade crystals mixed quite strong with a vega sport electrolytes portion added. This has done me well despite being quite thick. I had a bottle to gulp in transition, a full bottle on the bike and some in a run belt. But come the run I was gasping for water. Last 5k of the ride I started to ache terribly. I am fine in the saddle for 3.5 hours (Paris to Ancaster x-cross race this year with no saddle pain) but my glutes and quads started to kill me. Starting the run my quads were tight and felt I had zero power. Theories: Too much ride climbing in the last two weeks left some fatigue i.e. Poor taper Poor nutrition and hydration - single bottle of intense mix on the bike not enough fluids Just not fit enough - a distinct possibility. Maybe I don't realize what training I should have put in the bank but I felt well prepared Mystery problem - I have not been sick but who knows
Anyway. I have a bag of theories to test out to try and do better next time. Anything stand out to you good people as an area to improve?
|
|
2016-09-02 3:05 PM in reply to: #5197573 |
New user 175 | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Where the hill efforts new to you? Don't know what your total volume of fluid on the bike was, but don't think that was the main culprit with given symptoms. Do you ride with a PM, HR monitor in training and racing? What was the data on that? Lastly what's your training history short and long term? |
2016-09-02 4:01 PM in reply to: badmo77a |
Extreme Veteran 1175 Langley, BC, 'Wet Coast' Canada | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis IMO you have provided far too little info for anyone to offer any substantive comment. How long have you been training? Weekly run and bike mileage over the past several months/year? Swim training...? I suggest using the training log here, as it provides the above info for others to help you out. It is also a great help in keeping one consistent in training |
2016-09-02 4:34 PM in reply to: badmo77a |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Could be several things, but like others have said, we don't have enough data. I would look at your heart rate data for the ride...I suspect it was higher than normal. Did you ride the hills harder than normal? How hot was it on race day? You might have gotten a bit dehydrated. How much did you train race week? You might not have shed enough training fatigue before your race. How swim fit are you? A 1500 meter swim is going to affect your bike/run if your training volume leading up to the race is less than 6k a week. Just spit-balling here ... |
2016-09-02 7:42 PM in reply to: #5197584 |
370 , North Carolina | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis What was your HR on the bike? I bet you over biked it. Give us some more details. Sleep Dinner/breakfast Swim time. (Goal/training/race) Bike time. (goal/training/race) Run time. (Goal/training/race) |
2016-09-03 7:32 AM in reply to: badmo77a |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Originally posted by badmo77a I had my first swing at the Olympic distance last weekend and had great fun at Wasaga Beach in Ontario. I do need some help analyzing what went wrong as I found the last 5k of the ride intensely painful and jogged most of the run with terrible fatigue. The two weeks before I was on vacation and able to go riding with plenty of hills. I did two rides of about 35km each with over 1000 ft of climbing. I really enjoyed them and my felt I would boss the ride. I ran four treadmill session each about 30 minutes, three at a tempo pace on the cross country setting for some variety and the last 3 days before the race at a slow pace. I felt I had great legs for a 10k. I swam in the lake 6 days before the race to check my sighting options and get a feel for the beach run up. The swim went great. I was not fast but swam within myself. Nutrition. I made my own mix with Gatorade crystals mixed quite strong with a vega sport electrolytes portion added. This has done me well despite being quite thick. I had a bottle to gulp in transition, a full bottle on the bike and some in a run belt. But come the run I was gasping for water. Last 5k of the ride I started to ache terribly. I am fine in the saddle for 3.5 hours (Paris to Ancaster x-cross race this year with no saddle pain) but my glutes and quads started to kill me. Starting the run my quads were tight and felt I had zero power. Theories: Too much ride climbing in the last two weeks left some fatigue i.e. Poor taper Poor nutrition and hydration - single bottle of intense mix on the bike not enough fluids Just not fit enough - a distinct possibility. Maybe I don't realize what training I should have put in the bank but I felt well prepared Mystery problem - I have not been sick but who knows
Anyway. I have a bag of theories to test out to try and do better next time. Anything stand out to you good people as an area to improve?
It's none of the things you suspect. Primarily, you biked too hard. Secondarily, during a taper the majority of your training should be at your planned race intensity. Neurological adaptations occur quickly. Training right before a race at lower intensities reprograms your nervous system to fire muscles at that rate and intensity, leaving you flat on race day.
|
|
2016-09-04 8:25 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by badmo77a I had my first swing at the Olympic distance last weekend and had great fun at Wasaga Beach in Ontario. I do need some help analyzing what went wrong as I found the last 5k of the ride intensely painful and jogged most of the run with terrible fatigue. The two weeks before I was on vacation and able to go riding with plenty of hills. I did two rides of about 35km each with over 1000 ft of climbing. I really enjoyed them and my felt I would boss the ride. I ran four treadmill session each about 30 minutes, three at a tempo pace on the cross country setting for some variety and the last 3 days before the race at a slow pace. I felt I had great legs for a 10k. I swam in the lake 6 days before the race to check my sighting options and get a feel for the beach run up. The swim went great. I was not fast but swam within myself. Nutrition. I made my own mix with Gatorade crystals mixed quite strong with a vega sport electrolytes portion added. This has done me well despite being quite thick. I had a bottle to gulp in transition, a full bottle on the bike and some in a run belt. But come the run I was gasping for water. Last 5k of the ride I started to ache terribly. I am fine in the saddle for 3.5 hours (Paris to Ancaster x-cross race this year with no saddle pain) but my glutes and quads started to kill me. Starting the run my quads were tight and felt I had zero power. Theories: Too much ride climbing in the last two weeks left some fatigue i.e. Poor taper Poor nutrition and hydration - single bottle of intense mix on the bike not enough fluids Just not fit enough - a distinct possibility. Maybe I don't realize what training I should have put in the bank but I felt well prepared Mystery problem - I have not been sick but who knows
Anyway. I have a bag of theories to test out to try and do better next time. Anything stand out to you good people as an area to improve?
It's none of the things you suspect. Primarily, you biked too hard. Secondarily, during a taper the majority of your training should be at your planned race intensity. Neurological adaptations occur quickly. Training right before a race at lower intensities reprograms your nervous system to fire muscles at that rate and intensity, leaving you flat on race day.
^^^This. Don is very experienced and insightful coach. At ANY fitness level, there will be a pace at which you can execute your race without the symptoms you describe. but like others said, there's no context in which to place your last 2 weeks of training without knowing how it compares to the relative intensity of the training you've been doing up to this point. We don't know if it was too much taper or too little taper. If you've been training at a high volume, 2 weeks taper is possibly too much. |
2016-09-06 8:52 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by TriMyBest ^^^This. Don is very experienced and insightful coach. At ANY fitness level, there will be a pace at which you can execute your race without the symptoms you describe. but like others said, there's no context in which to place your last 2 weeks of training without knowing how it compares to the relative intensity of the training you've been doing up to this point. We don't know if it was too much taper or too little taper. If you've been training at a high volume, 2 weeks taper is possibly too much. Originally posted by badmo77a I had my first swing at the Olympic distance last weekend and had great fun at Wasaga Beach in Ontario. I do need some help analyzing what went wrong as I found the last 5k of the ride intensely painful and jogged most of the run with terrible fatigue. The two weeks before I was on vacation and able to go riding with plenty of hills. I did two rides of about 35km each with over 1000 ft of climbing. I really enjoyed them and my felt I would boss the ride. I ran four treadmill session each about 30 minutes, three at a tempo pace on the cross country setting for some variety and the last 3 days before the race at a slow pace. I felt I had great legs for a 10k. I swam in the lake 6 days before the race to check my sighting options and get a feel for the beach run up. The swim went great. I was not fast but swam within myself. Nutrition. I made my own mix with Gatorade crystals mixed quite strong with a vega sport electrolytes portion added. This has done me well despite being quite thick. I had a bottle to gulp in transition, a full bottle on the bike and some in a run belt. But come the run I was gasping for water. Last 5k of the ride I started to ache terribly. I am fine in the saddle for 3.5 hours (Paris to Ancaster x-cross race this year with no saddle pain) but my glutes and quads started to kill me. Starting the run my quads were tight and felt I had zero power. Theories: Too much ride climbing in the last two weeks left some fatigue i.e. Poor taper Poor nutrition and hydration - single bottle of intense mix on the bike not enough fluids Just not fit enough - a distinct possibility. Maybe I don't realize what training I should have put in the bank but I felt well prepared Mystery problem - I have not been sick but who knows
Anyway. I have a bag of theories to test out to try and do better next time. Anything stand out to you good people as an area to improve?
It's none of the things you suspect. Primarily, you biked too hard. Secondarily, during a taper the majority of your training should be at your planned race intensity. Neurological adaptations occur quickly. Training right before a race at lower intensities reprograms your nervous system to fire muscles at that rate and intensity, leaving you flat on race day.
That is insightful. I don't have a lot of data to give context to my training but there is surely mileage that the activity I did in my taper was badly matched with race conditions. I used to keep my training log here but now all the data is in Strava. I think the take aways must be: Match training intensity to race conditions. Doing a bundle of surprise climbing during taper when I needed to make a steady flatish TT effort was a mistake. Throwing in some treadmill hill climbing efforts before a pancake flat 10k is daft. Nutrition. A basic calorie calculator estimates the swim at 602 cals. Strava lists the bike effort at 888kJ. A shade off 1500 calories and I calculate that all I had on the bike was about 240 cals in my drink mix. Combined with a sunny day at about 27degrees I think I ended up on the dehydrated side and in a calorie slump. Biked too hard for my ability. Looks like I should start saving for a HR monitor, power meter or some bike tech so I can measure and control my effort. |
2016-09-06 9:26 AM in reply to: badmo77a |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Dehydrated? Maybe. Caloric slump? Unlikely. 240cal (assuming mostly carbs) should be fine for most in an oly. You may be able to go a little higher, but don't start thinking that you need to replace 1500cal during the race. All you need is enough carbs to keep your engine burning. If your drink mix is very thick, you should always be drinking water at the same time to dilute it in your gut and make it easier to process. Same as if you used gels or solids. |
2016-09-06 10:22 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Originally posted by JohnnyKay Dehydrated? Maybe. Caloric slump? Unlikely. 240cal (assuming mostly carbs) should be fine for most in an oly. You may be able to go a little higher, but don't start thinking that you need to replace 1500cal during the race. All you need is enough carbs to keep your engine burning. If your drink mix is very thick, you should always be drinking water at the same time to dilute it in your gut and make it easier to process. Same as if you used gels or solids. I agree on all counts. Also, you probably burned more like 400 cal on the swim and +/-1,000 on the bike. (resources like Strava and Garmin are notorious for over estimating caloric burn) Almost everybody blames hydration and fueling when they experience an implosion from overly aggressive pacing. Pace appropriately to your fitness level, and the apparent hydration and fueling issues disappear.
|
2016-09-06 11:05 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Expert 4842 Middle River, Maryland | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Originally posted by JohnnyKay Dehydrated? Maybe. Caloric slump? Unlikely. 240cal (assuming mostly carbs) should be fine for most in an oly. You may be able to go a little higher, but don't start thinking that you need to replace 1500cal during the race. All you need is enough carbs to keep your engine burning. If your drink mix is very thick, you should always be drinking water at the same time to dilute it in your gut and make it easier to process. Same as if you used gels or solids. Agreed. If you're properly fueled ahead of time, you should be able to get through an Oly with little added nutrition. |
|
2016-09-06 1:52 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Thanks for all the replies. Its been a good exercise particularly for narrowing down where not to look. |
2016-09-06 3:58 PM in reply to: badmo77a |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Help me with my post race analysis Originally posted by badmo77a That is insightful. I don't have a lot of data to give context to my training but there is surely mileage that the activity I did in my taper was badly matched with race conditions. I used to keep my training log here but now all the data is in Strava. I think the take aways must be: Match training intensity to race conditions. Doing a bundle of surprise climbing during taper when I needed to make a steady flatish TT effort was a mistake. Throwing in some treadmill hill climbing efforts before a pancake flat 10k is daft. Nutrition. A basic calorie calculator estimates the swim at 602 cals. Strava lists the bike effort at 888kJ. A shade off 1500 calories and I calculate that all I had on the bike was about 240 cals in my drink mix. Combined with a sunny day at about 27degrees I think I ended up on the dehydrated side and in a calorie slump. Biked too hard for my ability. Looks like I should start saving for a HR monitor, power meter or some bike tech so I can measure and control my effort. Taper vs race conditions has far less impact that previous training and race conditions. Taper is too late to dial in the efficiency pacing or effort for a flat TT or a flat 10k. I just finished a 6 week lead up for an athlete doing the Florida 70.3 coming up and he's got hills for both bike and run in those final 2 weeks. What's important about that is tuning the intensity...can't be much more than what you're used to and can't be much less than race day requires. but short duration hills at the right intensity (at or just over race pace) can be a great way to taper. I think you just need to do a lot more training to get the intuitive experience about pacing and how your body learns these things. you can't fix that even with perfect nutrition. So I agree, get yourself a gadget or two purely so you can track your efforts better and start making some correlations uring training. GIve yourself enough lead time to do a test taper and simulated race day to know if you're training is on track. You need a lot of lead time to plan in a test taper and race day simulation...can also be a B or C level race 6-12 weeks before your big race. After a taper you'd need to ramp up a little bi tof training again to regain fitness before the next taper. Welcoem to the fun world of plannign training! |
| |||
|