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Low-Glycemic Diet
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 2016-09-08 8:56 AM |
 DC |  Subject: Low-Glycemic DietAppreciate in advance any comments, opinions, knowledge etc.... So here's what I understand: We want a low GI diet so that our bodies "learn" to rely on our fat reserves to get us through our work-outs, i.e., not "offering" our bodies any fast-burning carbs. If we accept this premise, then doesn't it make sense to work out fasted? |
| 2016-09-08 10:22 AM in reply to: Porfirio |
Not a Coach  11473    Media, PA | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet I don't accept your premise. |
| 2016-09-08 10:24 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 201 Hereford, England | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet I posted something a while ago about fasted training. It was a BBC documentary, and they found that men burn fat better during and after exercise when fasted training, and women burn fat better during and after if thay have eaten. I'll try to find the documentary again. Found it - BBC documentary called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor (S04E01). It was only one section in the program, and only a very very small study, but interesting ideas and I think they will be investigating it further. Edited by Eucid 2016-09-08 10:27 AM |
| 2016-09-08 10:36 AM in reply to: Porfirio |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by Porfirio Appreciate in advance any comments, opinions, knowledge etc.... So here's what I understand: We want a low GI diet so that our bodies "learn" to rely on our fat reserves to get us through our work-outs, i.e., not "offering" our bodies any fast-burning carbs. If we accept this premise, then doesn't it make sense to work out fasted? I have trouble with the premise as a blanket statement. Why do we want to rely on fat reserves instead of glycogen? Fat utilization occurs at lower intensities and glycogen utilization at higher intensities. Relying more on fat and less on glycogen doesn't improve performance. The one exception is for athletes who have sensitive GI tracts, and have issues absorbing fuel at a high enough rate to support long course racing. In cases where athlete's experience repeated GI issues (that aren't the result of over fueling or bad pacing), fat adaptation is a legitimate strategy for them, because even though they may still need to race at a slightly slower pace, the reduced rate of fueling needed eliminates the GI issues, and they can actually achieve higher performance levels than they could when experiencing GI issues. For an athlete who doesn't experience GI issues, substrate utilization won't be a performance limiter.
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| 2016-09-08 11:40 AM in reply to: Eucid |
| DC | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by Eucid I posted something a while ago about fasted training. It was a BBC documentary, and they found that men burn fat better during and after exercise when fasted training, and women burn fat better during and after if thay have eaten. I'll try to find the documentary again. Found it - BBC documentary called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor (S04E01). It was only one section in the program, and only a very very small study, but interesting ideas and I think they will be investigating it further. Going for an afternoon run (fasted, eh... ) & will watch when I get back. My nutrition knowledge really sucks. |
| 2016-09-08 12:40 PM in reply to: Porfirio |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by Porfirio Originally posted by Eucid I posted something a while ago about fasted training. It was a BBC documentary, and they found that men burn fat better during and after exercise when fasted training, and women burn fat better during and after if thay have eaten. I'll try to find the documentary again. Found it - BBC documentary called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor (S04E01). It was only one section in the program, and only a very very small study, but interesting ideas and I think they will be investigating it further. Going for an afternoon run (fasted, eh... ) & will watch when I get back. My nutrition knowledge really sucks. Enjoy your run. It will do much more to help your body "learn" to rely on fat reserves to get you through your workout than anything you do with your diet (although eating more fat will also help increase your use of fat burning). |
| 2016-09-08 2:06 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
| DC | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by JohnnyKay Originally posted by Porfirio Originally posted by Eucid I posted something a while ago about fasted training. It was a BBC documentary, and they found that men burn fat better during and after exercise when fasted training, and women burn fat better during and after if thay have eaten. I'll try to find the documentary again. Found it - BBC documentary called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor (S04E01). It was only one section in the program, and only a very very small study, but interesting ideas and I think they will be investigating it further. Going for an afternoon run (fasted, eh... ) & will watch when I get back. My nutrition knowledge really sucks. Enjoy your run. It will do much more to help your body "learn" to rely on fat reserves to get you through your workout than anything you do with your diet (although eating more fat will also help increase your use of fat burning). Interesting. To TriMyBest's post, 1) Doesn't running slow, and on a consistent basis, improve speed? 2) So is this whole low GI diet theory bogus? |
| 2016-09-08 2:29 PM in reply to: Porfirio |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by Porfirio Originally posted by JohnnyKay Interesting. To TriMyBest's post, 1) Doesn't running slow, and on a consistent basis, improve speed? 2) So is this whole low GI diet theory bogus? Originally posted by Porfirio Originally posted by Eucid I posted something a while ago about fasted training. It was a BBC documentary, and they found that men burn fat better during and after exercise when fasted training, and women burn fat better during and after if thay have eaten. I'll try to find the documentary again. Found it - BBC documentary called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor (S04E01). It was only one section in the program, and only a very very small study, but interesting ideas and I think they will be investigating it further. Going for an afternoon run (fasted, eh... ) & will watch when I get back. My nutrition knowledge really sucks. Enjoy your run. It will do much more to help your body "learn" to rely on fat reserves to get you through your workout than anything you do with your diet (although eating more fat will also help increase your use of fat burning). answer to #2. yes. |
| 2016-09-08 3:54 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| DC | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Porfirio Originally posted by JohnnyKay Interesting. To TriMyBest's post, 1) Doesn't running slow, and on a consistent basis, improve speed? 2) So is this whole low GI diet theory bogus? Originally posted by Porfirio Originally posted by Eucid I posted something a while ago about fasted training. It was a BBC documentary, and they found that men burn fat better during and after exercise when fasted training, and women burn fat better during and after if thay have eaten. I'll try to find the documentary again. Found it - BBC documentary called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor (S04E01). It was only one section in the program, and only a very very small study, but interesting ideas and I think they will be investigating it further. Going for an afternoon run (fasted, eh... ) & will watch when I get back. My nutrition knowledge really sucks. Enjoy your run. It will do much more to help your body "learn" to rely on fat reserves to get you through your workout than anything you do with your diet (although eating more fat will also help increase your use of fat burning). answer to #2. yes. Is it a definite yes or is the issue controversial? The internet is all over the place on this one. |
| 2016-09-08 10:36 PM in reply to: Porfirio |
| 233 Ventura, California | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet First off lets clear the air. A low glycemic diet has nothing to do with being 'fat adapted'. The glycemic index is a number associated with a particular type of food that indicates the food's effect on a person's blood glucose (blood sugar) level. "A glycemic index diet is an eating plan based on how foods affect your blood sugar level. The glycemic index is a system of assigning a number to carbohydrate-containing foods according to how much each food increases blood sugar." For instance a snickers bar would be high glycemic, a cucumber would be low glycemic. Also being 'fat adapted' as hyped has very little scientific proof of being beneficial in performance. I found the following video to be amazingly educational in regards to HOW the body processes carbs, proteins, fats and energy. We call it metabolism, no matter what you try to force your body to do, it will always find homeostasis, or balance, or die trying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ1QGZ6gJ8w I am going to watch it yet again because I find it fascinating. I have done several Triathlons, Bike Races, Marathons, etc.. All Plant Based, Low Fat Vegan. All Hail Carbs!
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| 2016-09-09 8:33 AM in reply to: Porfirio |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by Porfirio Interesting. To TriMyBest's post, 1) Doesn't running slow, and on a consistent basis, improve speed? 2) So is this whole low GI diet theory bogus? Low GI diet is not a low carb diet. and humans are highly highly adaptable. we are omnivores. the "SAD" (Standard American Diet) is saturated with quick access foods that are mostly filler calories stripped of nutrition. The concept of eating mostly intact/whole/minimally processed foods is valid, and that can serve as the kernal of many diferent types of nutritional balance strategies. Low GI/Low Carb diet or not, there are studies showing that training in a fasted state helps to increase some endurance biomarkers/enzymes, etc. I think that most poeple should cut out most sweets...but that's a blanket statement for certain. I see endurance athletes eating bowls of fruit loops, ice cream and chocolate milk as "carb loading" meals 2 days before an Ironman...but what really helps the body use fat for fuel is the months and months of training done prior to that, low GI or not. You'll be come a more efficient athlete...moving forward with less energy or moving faster with the same energy...by raising your threshold which by definition involves better burning of fat stores to create energy, conserving your carbohydrate fuel stores for going even faster for strategic race moments if you'r race is longer than ~1- 2 hours. shorter than an hour, then no need to conserve, just pace to your fitness level. I think this discussion would be easier for you if you had a specific questoin about your current issues, nutrition, dietary, speed, etc. Regarding Q#1: Yes, it can, if you're relatively untrained in that arena. You'll reach a time limiter however where that will no longer help very much. Barring injuries, most people's time is better suited to add intensity much earlier than before they run out of time to add more easy training. But each athlete is an "N of 1" with different goals, different likes, different body weights & masses (are you just finishing high school where you were on a sports team, or are you 30 years old + 30 lbs from high school weight? <--same person 2 different points in life/same genetics, different current needs). Basically it depends. Your questoins as posed are too general to give you a specific answer. |
| 2016-09-09 8:35 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by rjcalhoun The glycemic index is a system of assigning a number to carbohydrate-containing foods according to how much each food increases blood sugar." For instance a snickers bar would be high glycemic, a cucumber would be low glycemic. And pizza is actually pretty low in its glycemic index (due to the amount of fat slowing digestion)...so it's healthy right? Let's all fuel with pizza from now on! |
| 2016-09-09 9:36 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
| DC | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by Porfirio Interesting. To TriMyBest's post, 1) Doesn't running slow, and on a consistent basis, improve speed? 2) So is this whole low GI diet theory bogus? Low GI diet is not a low carb diet. and humans are highly highly adaptable. we are omnivores. the "SAD" (Standard American Diet) is saturated with quick access foods that are mostly filler calories stripped of nutrition. The concept of eating mostly intact/whole/minimally processed foods is valid, and that can serve as the kernal of many diferent types of nutritional balance strategies. Low GI/Low Carb diet or not, there are studies showing that training in a fasted state helps to increase some endurance biomarkers/enzymes, etc. I think that most poeple should cut out most sweets...but that's a blanket statement for certain. I see endurance athletes eating bowls of fruit loops, ice cream and chocolate milk as "carb loading" meals 2 days before an Ironman...but what really helps the body use fat for fuel is the months and months of training done prior to that, low GI or not. You'll be come a more efficient athlete...moving forward with less energy or moving faster with the same energy...by raising your threshold which by definition involves better burning of fat stores to create energy, conserving your carbohydrate fuel stores for going even faster for strategic race moments if you'r race is longer than ~1- 2 hours. shorter than an hour, then no need to conserve, just pace to your fitness level. I think this discussion would be easier for you if you had a specific questoin about your current issues, nutrition, dietary, speed, etc. Regarding Q#1: Yes, it can, if you're relatively untrained in that arena. You'll reach a time limiter however where that will no longer help very much. Barring injuries, most people's time is better suited to add intensity much earlier than before they run out of time to add more easy training. But each athlete is an "N of 1" with different goals, different likes, different body weights & masses (are you just finishing high school where you were on a sports team, or are you 30 years old + 30 lbs from high school weight? <--same person 2 different points in life/same genetics, different current needs). Basically it depends. Your questoins as posed are too general to give you a specific answer. I think this answers not a specific question, but gives the context I was wondering about. Thanks for the taking the time to type it out! |
| 2016-09-09 9:36 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
| DC | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by rjcalhoun First off lets clear the air. A low glycemic diet has nothing to do with being 'fat adapted'. The glycemic index is a number associated with a particular type of food that indicates the food's effect on a person's blood glucose (blood sugar) level. "A glycemic index diet is an eating plan based on how foods affect your blood sugar level. The glycemic index is a system of assigning a number to carbohydrate-containing foods according to how much each food increases blood sugar." For instance a snickers bar would be high glycemic, a cucumber would be low glycemic. Also being 'fat adapted' as hyped has very little scientific proof of being beneficial in performance. I found the following video to be amazingly educational in regards to HOW the body processes carbs, proteins, fats and energy. We call it metabolism, no matter what you try to force your body to do, it will always find homeostasis, or balance, or die trying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ1QGZ6gJ8w I am going to watch it yet again because I find it fascinating. I have done several Triathlons, Bike Races, Marathons, etc.. All Plant Based, Low Fat Vegan. All Hail Carbs!
Thanks. Will check it out now! |
| 2016-09-09 6:11 PM in reply to: Porfirio |
Extreme Veteran 1106 , Connecticut | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet I lost a lot of weight on a very low carb diet. I cut the carbs so that I could get a handle on my hunger and food issues. Tried to add healthy carbs back slowly and was into the chips and junk food in a short time. So it's no grand theory, just dealing with what appears to be my inability to control carbs. Feel like a smoker trying to just smoke a few a day, before long I'm smoking a pack (did smoke two packs a day years back). So, I don't want to go nearly no-carb again, as exercise was discouraged. Did an oly last summer, let things get in the way of training and lost this summer. Usually start training in spring and am not ready to do a sprint or oly until end of summer. I'm jumping in and committing to a HIM in June 2017. Now I'm 5'1" and 25lbs overweight. Thinking I'll do a low calorie, fairly low carb (apples, berries, greek yogurt, beans, veggies) and if I record my workouts on myfitnesspal and it says I burned 200 calories I'd eat 200 calories worth of mostly carbs - split between before and after workouts. Started training this week, very excited. Does this make any sense? Mitzi |
| 2016-09-11 5:30 PM in reply to: MuscleMomma |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet Originally posted by MuscleMomma I lost a lot of weight on a very low carb diet. I cut the carbs so that I could get a handle on my hunger and food issues. Tried to add healthy carbs back slowly and was into the chips and junk food in a short time. So it's no grand theory, just dealing with what appears to be my inability to control carbs. Feel like a smoker trying to just smoke a few a day, before long I'm smoking a pack (did smoke two packs a day years back). So, I don't want to go nearly no-carb again, as exercise was discouraged. Did an oly last summer, let things get in the way of training and lost this summer. Usually start training in spring and am not ready to do a sprint or oly until end of summer. I'm jumping in and committing to a HIM in June 2017. Now I'm 5'1" and 25lbs overweight. Thinking I'll do a low calorie, fairly low carb (apples, berries, greek yogurt, beans, veggies) and if I record my workouts on myfitnesspal and it says I burned 200 calories I'd eat 200 calories worth of mostly carbs - split between before and after workouts. Started training this week, very excited. Does this make any sense? Mitzi if you have experience cutting out major portions of your dietary intake, have you considered doing other types of elimination? Not simply carbs , no carb, low carb, low GI, for example, but eliminating dairy or legumes or processed wheat (or all wheat?). THe comment about hunger issues suggests to me that your body's response to insulin, glucagon & leptin may be challenged, and while lowering overal calorie intake can help, I"m not sure it will hep reset things if you feel restricted. As an "N of 1", I tried the whole 30 approach this fall...actually i'm on the last few days of it. Inherently there is nothing unhealthy or risky about it, although Im not 100% convinced that their science is actually scientific I felt i needed to try something different, because like you, once i start adding a little carbs, i tend to convince myself that occasional bag of chips or a klondike are OK...and they ARE ok, but it triggers something wiht my appetite and I can't stop eating. Since doing the whole 30, I can still eat as much as I want as long as it's in the food groups recommended...it's not calorie restricted, it encourages carbs, but has helped me recognize emotional and habitual eating, as well as situational (like the last 2 hours of a work shift for example have been vulnerable food choice times. I"m not sure splitting carbs 50% pre & 50% post to replace what you think you'll burn is a scientifically sound strategy vs. continuing to try and trouble shoot your "hunger" issues. Hunger is a natural human response and except for a few genetic disorders, should be mostly intact in all of us. I am convinced that cetain food choices I make can override this response by encouraging abnormally prolonged or poorly timed insulin secretion as well. Liek I said everyone is an N of 1, even when studies are well supported. I can 100% identify with triathletes that have trouble controlling appetite and personally have addressed it by limiting specific amounts of specific food types and that works well for me. |
| 2016-09-11 6:01 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Low-Glycemic Diet And pizza is actually pretty low in its glycemic index (due to the amount of fat slowing digestion)...so it's healthy right? Let's all fuel with pizza from now on! This is my justification for using chocolate as a race fuel! Seriously, I have always had issues with pure simple carbs like gu that one consumes in races (and, sadly, even a lot of yummy desserts)--quick spikes of energy, then nausea and run out of energy. I feel a lot better when I try to stick to lower GI foods on a daily basis (but do NOT eat a low carb diet,) and not consume carbs by themselves without protein or fat. Discovered the chocolate by accident, but I think it works as the fat slows the rate at which the carbs hit my system. Only works for longer races--in shorter ones, I'm going too hard to get/keep it down. Have joked that if I did a full IM I would need a pizza in Special Needs! |
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