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2018-08-21 11:51 PM


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Subject: Do you do other sports?
Aside from Triathlon (or one of the sports therein) do you do anything else seriously? If so, what sport, and how do you think it affects your triathlon? Just curious. I've been boxing pretty seriously for about 6 months and feel better than ever, but I also just got my worst swim time ever...... so I dunno what to think.


(FYI you want a workout? Try jumping rope. My boxing trainer makes me do it, I haven't done it since playground days, and after 5 minutes I'm dripping with sweat)


2018-08-22 12:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Sure....but here's the thing....

If you want to be better at doing triathlon then swim more, bike more, and run more.....it's really that simple.

Lacking the above, boxing won't help you in triathlon, lifting weights won't help you in triathlon, playing softball won't help you in triathlon, bowling won't help you in triathlon, fishing won't help you in triathlon, and on and on.

This is swim, bike, run.  You get better at it by doing those three things......don't be fooled by anyone who tells you differently.

Now, if you are talking about just finishing a sprint or Oly distance triathlon.....do whatever you want....it's not that hard if you are in shape.  It's three things most people have been doing since they were kids. I'd swim enough to be sure you don't drown, but that's your call based on ability....I know people who can basically not swim train at all and finish in the top 10% of the swim in an AG triathlon....but they were club or HS swimmers....they can actually swim, unlike most people who do triathlon. 

But, if you want to get better at triathlon, no amount of boxing or anything else will replace the time you could have spent swimming, biking, or running.

Oh yeah.....there's no rope jumping in triathlon either....no matter how much you sweat.  If triathlon is your goal.....spend those 5 minutes running.



Edited by Left Brain 2018-08-22 12:25 AM
2018-08-22 12:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Well.... yes. But also....no. I think that's simplistic. For instance when I was young and 100% a runner I found that my upper body was very sore after marathons. I then started lifting weights a little (which I had essentially never done before) and found my marathon time improve dramatically and no soreness. All this absent massive running workout changes, probably even lessening the running a bit. One can argue that that half hour lifting weights I should have been doing strides and that would've improved my time more but I am somewhat skeptical that is so.

Edited by d.rock90 2018-08-22 12:51 AM
2018-08-22 12:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by d.rock90 Well.... yes. But also....no. I think that's simplistic. For instance when I was young and 100% a runner I found that my upper body was very sore after marathons. I then started lifting weights a little (which I had essentially never done before) and found my marathon time improve dramatically and no soreness. All this absent massive running workout changes. One can argue that that half hour lifting weights I should have been doing strides and that would've improved my time more but I am somewhat skeptical that is so.

Your example proves my point.  You say your marathon time improved because you lifted weights but basically made no run workout changes.....ok....you added, not replaced.  And you didn't gain that much on your marathon time, no matter how much better you felt.....it's completely counter-intuitive to running much faster in a marathon. (yes, you may have gotten incrementally faster)

Still.....you would have been even faster if you would have ran more (spent the extra time you lifted by running more....yeah, that includes doing strides if nothing else......it's not arguable).  If you want to be a RUNNER, do what RUNNERS do.

This is not rocket science or new science.....and yeah, it's really simple....unless you are running elite times, or maybe even BostonQ for most (mortal) people.  Without specific times it's irrelevant.



Edited by Left Brain 2018-08-22 1:20 AM
2018-08-22 4:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Well, I gained about 40 minutes on my marathon (from a low fat guy base, I admit), and I edited to indicate that I probably eased up on running a bit, just from simple time constraints (although I am admittedly working from memory). But, OK. Lets all agree I am not maximizing triathlon performance. Heck, cutting beer and pizza from my life would probably improve my tri time more than any workout adjustment.

Now here's my question: What other sports do you engage in and how do you feel they affect your triathlon performance?

*I will note that there is an extreme lack of rope jumping in every boxing match I've ever seen. Yet those fools do it! Must be merely an affectation.

Edited by d.rock90 2018-08-22 4:48 AM
2018-08-22 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by d.rock90 Well, I gained about 40 minutes on my marathon (from a low fat guy base, I admit), and I edited to indicate that I probably eased up on running a bit, just from simple time constraints (although I am admittedly working from memory). But, OK. Lets all agree I am not maximizing triathlon performance. Heck, cutting beer and pizza from my life would probably improve my tri time more than any workout adjustment. Now here's my question: What other sports do you engage in and how do you feel they affect your triathlon performance? *I will note that there is an extreme lack of rope jumping in every boxing match I've ever seen. Yet those fools do it! Must be merely an affectation.

Footwork for boxing has nothing to do with triathlon.....and that's the main purpose for rope jumping while training for boxing. 

I fish and hunt......it doesn't help me at all for triathlon.  I throw darts sometimes when I'm having some beers with a guy who has a nice home bar.....no help with triathlon.  I played a lot of ball when I was younger and first doing triathlon nearly 35 years ago.....no help with triathlon.  I quit lifting weights because it did nothing to make me faster in triathlon.

I'll go back to my original post here.  There is not a sport that you can do which will help you in triathlon more than spending that same time swimming, biking, or running. 



2018-08-22 12:07 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
OK. So you're answer is you do a couple other non aerobic sports and they don't help you at all. Three posts to get to that but we got something!

Cool!

Anyone else?
2018-08-22 1:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by d.rock90 OK. So you're answer is you do a couple other non aerobic sports and they don't help you at all. Three posts to get to that but we got something! Cool! Anyone else?

Dude......outside of swimming, biking, or running, the list of aerobic "sports" is REALLY short    .....and neither xc skiing nor rowing is going to help your race like swimming, biking, or running will.

2018-08-22 1:46 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by d.rock90 OK. So you're answer is you do a couple other non aerobic sports and they don't help you at all. Three posts to get to that but we got something! Cool! Anyone else?

Dude......outside of swimming, biking, or running, the list of aerobic "sports" is REALLY short    .....and neither xc skiing nor rowing is going to help your race like swimming, biking, or running will.





JFC what a Debbie Downer.....has a way of minimizing everything said....


Any amount of cardio work you're doing while not s/b/r is going to help. Maybe some can s/b/r all the time, but at least for me it would get a little boring. I like to play soccer & tennis and find that some of the quick bursts of speed I need in those help with sprints.
I am completely not arguing that doing those 2 sports are better or in some way a substitute for s/b/r focused workouts, but if they're done in addition to, I find that they help.

2018-08-22 1:50 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Wait so you're saying I should bike or run or swim? Whoa now I get it!

In a completed unrelated matter: Does anyone here engage a lot in other sports? If so what? And if you ever noticed any relationship positive or negative with your triathlon performance I would be interested to hear about it (keeping in mind that you are, in fact, foolish to not be running biking or swimming instead, we all know this so well it need not be mentioned!).
2018-08-22 2:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
I play golf, which does not make me a better triathlete but the opposite is true. I have more stamina. I was really tired half way through a round before I started tris and my game got worse. Now I feel better physically and I play equally bad on the 18th as I do on the 1st, not worse.


2018-08-22 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Originally posted by d.rock90

Wait so you're saying I should bike or run or swim? Whoa now I get it!

In a completed unrelated matter: Does anyone here engage a lot in other sports? If so what? And if you ever noticed any relationship positive or negative with your triathlon performance I would be interested to hear about it (keeping in mind that you are, in fact, foolish to not be running biking or swimming instead, we all know this so well it need not be mentioned!).


For me, the two sports I engage in (somewhat) are weight workouts and snow skiing. I used to hit the gym for weight work about 3x per week. And I would always ski at least one full day per weekend during the winter months. Since my time to dedicate to workouts is fixed, I found that these sports reduced the time I had specifically for S/B/R workouts. As a result, these sports were detrimental to my speed as a triathlete. However, my S/B/R workouts definitely improved my skiing. I was much stronger aerobically and significantly stronger in leg specific ski muscles that were much slower to fatigue.

If time wasn’t an issue and I could have simply allocated incremental time for doing gym work and/or skiing, there probably would have been a benefit to my triathlon performance. However, in my world that wasn’t the case and I found that tri workouts were sacrificed to make time for the incremental sports....and I got slower.

I agree with Left Brain. There are lots of sports that can be great fun. However, If you want to get better in triathlon, use incremental training time to add incremental S/B/R workouts.

Edited by lutzman 2018-08-22 6:53 PM
2018-08-22 8:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by jjupiter100
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by d.rock90 OK. So you're answer is you do a couple other non aerobic sports and they don't help you at all. Three posts to get to that but we got something! Cool! Anyone else?

Dude......outside of swimming, biking, or running, the list of aerobic "sports" is REALLY short    .....and neither xc skiing nor rowing is going to help your race like swimming, biking, or running will.

  Any amount of cardio work you're doing while not s/b/r is going to help. .............  if they're done in addition to, I find that they help.

No.....if you want to get faster at swim, bike, and run and you have extra time, then you swim, bike and run more.  Tennis won't help, jumping rope won't help, soccer won't help, skiing won't help. 

I'm sorry you don't like the answer.....but it's important for people who are just starting in triathlon.  

It's not arguable.

 



Edited by Left Brain 2018-08-22 8:54 PM
2018-08-22 9:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by Left Brain

boxing won't help you in triathlon,

Sometimes it helps during the swim.

But seriously:

1.  The most efficient way to get *faster*, if that's the point, is to train swim, bike, and run as much as one 'can'.  I don't see any good argument against that conclusion, nor do I see any empirical evidence against it.

2.  There are many meanings of the word 'can'.  People have physical, psychological, logistical, and other limits.  Sometimes they bump up against those limits with their s/b/r training, but at the same time, for whatever reason, can get in something else.  Like chess boxing (yeah, it's a thing), or snow polo (also a thing).  Some of those something elses might provide some marginal benefit or comfort of various sorts.  They won't help as much as more s/b/r.

2018-08-22 9:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by Experior

Originally posted by Left Brain

boxing won't help you in triathlon,

Sometimes it helps during the swim.

But seriously:

1.  The most efficient way to get *faster*, if that's the point, is to train swim, bike, and run as much as one 'can'.  I don't see any good argument against that conclusion, nor do I see any empirical evidence against it.

2.  There are many meanings of the word 'can'.  People have physical, psychological, logistical, and other limits.  Sometimes they bump up against those limits with their s/b/r training, but at the same time, for whatever reason, can get in something else.  Like chess boxing (yeah, it's a thing), or snow polo (also a thing).  Some of those something elses might provide some marginal benefit or comfort of various sorts.  They won't help as much as more s/b/r.

It's really an interesting discussion, and even more interesting on the pointy end.  I get the benefit of being around some of the fastest runners and triathletes in the country.  I watched almost all of them come up through the Jr. ranks.  Most of them, including my own kid, went on to run on scholarship in college.......to the detriment of their triathlon times.  It's been a problem for our country in producing top level international triathletes.

That may now be changing.  USAT has launched the "podium project" and has lured some very top level kids away from college running programs and put them in a college environment, but training triathlon.....yes, they give up their NCAA eligibility, but they retain the benefit of free college and top level triathlon training.  I think it's FINALLY the right track.

My point, in relation to this discussion, is that you can't even train in just one discipline and expect your triathlon times to drop, and triathlon development to continue.  Triathlon IS three sports.......it's the very nature of it.  You can't get faster at s/b/r by doing any other sport......you can't even get faster by only concentrating on one of the three (and none of the other two)....no matter how much time you put in to it.

You don't get better at hitting a baseball by hitting a golf ball.  You can't get better at golf by hitting a baseball.  No other sport will give you the benefit of s/b/r for triathlon. 

Triathlon is it's own sport.....it's NOT three sports. (and it's NOT tennis)

 



Edited by Left Brain 2018-08-22 9:49 PM
2018-08-22 10:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

When I posted that triathlon IS three sports early in that post what I meant was that it's three sports TOGETHER.....it's not three sports standing alone.  As I said later in the the post....it's NOT three sports. 

It's triathlon....a sport on it's own, that cannot be replicated or trained with any other sport, or with any individual discipline of the sport alone.



Edited by Left Brain 2018-08-22 10:34 PM


2018-08-23 6:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
I like the both boxing and jumping rope. Swimming is also one of my favorite.
2018-08-23 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Originally posted by Left Brain

>My point, in relation to this discussion, is that you can't even train in just one discipline and expect your triathlon times to drop, and triathlon development to continue.  Triathlon IS three sports.......it's the very nature of it.  You can't get faster at s/b/r by doing any other sport......you can't even get faster by only concentrating on one of the three (and none of the other two)....no matter how much time you put in to it.

 




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2018-08-23 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by Left Brain

It's really an interesting discussion, and even more interesting on the pointy end. 

[snip]

Triathlon is it's own sport.....it's NOT three sports. (and it's NOT tennis)

Agree 100%.  I do think that the importance of your second point ('triathlon is not three sports') really begins to be clear only at the pointy end.  Most AGers don't really need to think hard about that mantra, and will reap massive benefits by just training 'the three sports' more, and then paying some reasonable attention to pacing on race day.

(I admit that it was mostly my approach even at the time when I was somewhat competitive; e.g., I trained the swim pretty much just enough to make it to my bike and was still able to compete at a reasonably high level amongst my AG peers.  Of course, I'm not saying that you can *ignore* one of the three sports...)

But the point of it not being tennis...well, that's just as true for AGers -- maybe even more so, in fact, the reason being that there is a point of diminishing returns in training, and most serious college or pro athletes are much further beyond that point than most AGers.



Edited by Experior 2018-08-23 2:58 PM
2018-08-23 3:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

I want to expand a little bit on what I just said, without editing.

If you totally ignore one of the three aspects of triathlon, you will perform badly.  Probably, you will perform badly even relative to any modest goals that you might have.  I would be surprised if anybody disagrees with that claim.  (Of course, I don't mean *YOU*, whoever you are, but 'one', 'a person', 'the usual suspects', etc.)

So I'd suggest that the point of 'triathlon is not three sports' is not just that you cannot ignore one or two of the disciplines and expect success.  I hope we all agree about that.

The point, I'll suggest, is that if you want to maximize success in the sport, then you have to approach the three aspects of it (plus the fourth discipline, transitions!) with some sense of balance relative to current strengths and weaknesses (and sometimes relative to the conditions of your goal race, or the state of your competition).  I mentioned in my previous post that I had some success with less than great swim training.  And I did, but I would clearly have had more success if I had given up some time running (assuming I was maxed out for total time, which is debatable) and spent it swimming.

In fact, while I have no intention of going back to read them, I would be very surprised if my old race reports didn't say things like "I can't afford to be giving up 2 minutes on the swim" and stuff like that.  Of course, I don't like to train the swim and I love to run.  So I kept giving up that 2 minutes, or more, and thus the top guys almost always beat me.  And I was fine with that.  I don't really care about winning.   (OK, that's an exaggeration.  The few times that I took an overall win I was thrilled.  That thrill was never enough to make me want to swim more.)

That's the difference between me (together with 98.34% of the people who do this sport just for fun) and serious triathletes.  The serious ones do what they need to do in order to train triathlon -- which means approaching it in the balanced way I mentioned above -- while those of us in the peanut gallery just try not to suck too much.

(None of the above has anything to do with playing tennis for the sake of triathlon training, which is a separate issue and I think the point has been made on that issue.)

 

2018-08-28 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
I compete in Modern Pentathlons.

I've started to do more Outdoor Water Swim competitions this year, and running races. Though they are disciplines within Triathlon.


Just to weigh in on the discussion above. Left Brain is more/less right. Any benefit you get from say boxing or whatever..would better be spent at a triathlon discipline. That being said, there is always cross training and strength/conditioning that is specifically needed as you get older, etc. so there are some caveats to that. But for the most part ya...you want to get faster and better...swim/bike/run.



2018-08-28 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

I believed for many years that if I would limit myself to a single sport I would progress faster in that sport than I could by split time between multiple sports. 

About 12 years ago I made a goal to go back under 18 minutes in my 5K run.  I was very consistent in my training for 2-3 years and was regularly running in the 18-05-18-10 range.  One race I went as fast as 18:01 but nothing I did could get me under 18:00 flat.  So I decided to give running a break and try something else.  One of those things I tried was Triathlon.  I trained 8 months for my first Triathlon (a 70.3) two weeks after the race I had not ran swan or bikes a single yard and my legs still were sore and beat up>  I found myself out of state in a community that I knew very little about.  I was going to be there over the weekend and was looking for community activities to get me out of the Hotel and found a 5K race.  I didn't have any race gear but showed up and ran.  I felt like I was doing the last half of the 13.1 mi run of my triathlon all over again.  It hurt but as I came through the 4K I was feeling I was on pace for about an 18:03 and I had some downhill portions ahead of me to I gave it all I had and finished around a 17:53.  nearly ever race I have done since then have been sub 18:00 minutes with a PR last fall at 17:48.  I am now convinced that focusing on one sport is NOT always the fastest way to improve.  I now feel there is a lot of value in cross training.  I am currently only doing Triathlon.  Three is enough for me for now but I think that rowing, boxing, soccer, etc could all be means to improvising triathlon with the right balance.  

2018-08-29 8:22 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
So you think cross training helped your run, and have used that to reduce that soccer, rowing, or boxing could improve your triathlon. No.
2018-08-29 3:19 PM
in reply to: d.rock90

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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?
Just have to vent my frustration with the responses in this thread.

OP - Aside from Triathlon (or one of the sports therein) do you do anything else seriously? If so, what sport, and how do you think it affects your triathlon?

I have seen some of the responses as almost argumentative (maybe that's just my interpretation) and I feel like the responses started straying away from the original question (although anyone can answer any way they choose ). Just seems like some are really nit-picking other's answers.

They just wanted to know what other sports we did and how we thought if affected our races....

If we did underwater basket weaving and thought it helped our lung capacity on the swim when a wave crashes over you and you're unable to inhale like you normally would, then I would say that's beneficial, etc.
2018-08-29 4:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you do other sports?

Originally posted by Left Brain So you think cross training helped your run, and have used that to reduce that soccer, rowing, or boxing could improve your triathlon. No.

Yes! I am am 100% convinced that Triathlon helped me improve my 5K time.  Pre-triathlon I was doing speed work outs workouts, tempo runs, and long runs every week (along with other work outs on to hit 6 days and 40 miles a week).  There were also lots of local races and I did a good share of them placing first place in the mens 26-30 year old age group at every race I ran in Tulsa, OK for more than a dozen races in a row.  My focus was there.  I didn't know how to train any more efficient for 5K races but I now believe that over focusing can create tunnel vision to where you can't see what you are missing in the peripherals. Doing more of what you are already doing is not the answer if you are missing something.  I believe that the adage that "If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always got" applies here.   I believe that cross training helped with what I was missing in the peripherals.  Specifically I believe that the cycling at a higher RPM than my run cadence help speed up my feet and run speed.   The 8 months leading up to my first triathlon my running mileage dropped from 40 miles a week to 25 miles weeks (to make time for cycling and swimming in my finite available hours in a week).  So with fewer miles and no focus at all on 5K races you would think that my 5K times would be slower than when all I was training for week in and week out were 5K's.  The opposite is what happened.  At age 40 with a focus on Triathlon I can run a faster 5K time than I could at age 26 with a 5K focus.  I don't believe the the answer is to always do more.  If you have hit a plateau to were you are not longer improving it may be time to mix things up. 

 

Triathlon worked for me.  One of the trainers at the gym I swam at before I moved from Texas did Ultra Marathons.  When he was a younger man he wanted to hit a Boston Qualifying time in a full Marathon.  He worked for years to do that and was successful, but he told me he doesn't run much any more.  He said he does most of his cardio on the rowing machine.  I know he also is the instructor for a spin class so I am sure he gets cardio several times a week there too. He now is is his late 40's and says with most of his cardio on the rowing machine he doesn't care about Boston Qualifying times any more because they don't challenge him any more.  He shows up at Marathons with his rowing machine and spin class as the bulk of his base training and will typically run in the 2:45-2:55 range.  

 

All I need to say about soccer is that all our best Cross Country recruits came from the soccer team. 

 

I don't know any boxers who have turned to Triathlon but I believe that cross training is a very valuable tool in preventing burn out and keeping you motivated.  I believe It also can add to your over all base training and possibly fill other needs that you miss when you are over focused on one sport.

 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2018-08-29 4:25 PM
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