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2020-01-22 1:11 PM

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Subject: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Greetings everyone!

I imposed a challenge to myself this year to hit a performance stat which I've been chasing on and off since 2015. I have another challenge going on for running but I'm more focused on biking this year to attain an FTP of 4.0watts/kg.

If there are any athletes out there interested in joining this sufferfest, feel free to join me! I'd love to have some discussions as the months go by to see it goes. The closest I've gotten was 3.85watts/kg some weeks before IMAZ 2017.

Roland


2020-01-25 9:21 AM
in reply to: #5266145

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Wowzers! I haven’t completed an FTP test in quite a while. Might do one this week and report back with my results.

Which FTP test are you using to get your number, Roland?
2020-01-27 5:12 PM
in reply to: Parkland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by Parkland

Wowzers! I haven’t completed an FTP test in quite a while. Might do one this week and report back with my results.

Which FTP test are you using to get your number, Roland?


This is my test protocol:

Warm Up:

• 10 minute easy then 3x0:30/0:30 pickups
• 3 minute max effort (no fading) then 3:00 easy
• 3 minutes of 10 seconds on, 10 seconds off high cadence
• 3 minutes easy

Main Set:

• 20 minutes max sustained effort (no fading). This interval's RPE should be less than the 3 minute hard interval done earlier. It should feel about 8.5-9. Whereas the 3 minute one earlier should feel like at 9-9.5 on a RPE scale 1-10 with 6-7 being Z2 HR ish effort level.

Cool Down:

• 5 minutes super easy

The average power output of the 20 minute main set interval -5% gets me pretty close to my FTP.
2020-01-28 11:12 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by kloofyroland

Originally posted by Parkland

Wowzers! I haven’t completed an FTP test in quite a while. Might do one this week and report back with my results.

Which FTP test are you using to get your number, Roland?


This is my test protocol:

Warm Up:

• 10 minute easy then 3x0:30/0:30 pickups
• 3 minute max effort (no fading) then 3:00 easy
• 3 minutes of 10 seconds on, 10 seconds off high cadence
• 3 minutes easy

Main Set:

• 20 minutes max sustained effort (no fading). This interval's RPE should be less than the 3 minute hard interval done earlier. It should feel about 8.5-9. Whereas the 3 minute one earlier should feel like at 9-9.5 on a RPE scale 1-10 with 6-7 being Z2 HR ish effort level.

Cool Down:

• 5 minutes super easy

The average power output of the 20 minute main set interval -5% gets me pretty close to my FTP.


Almost forgot to mention, you then take that FTP and divide it by your weight in kilograms to get your watts/kg stat.
2020-01-31 7:54 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

OK, I'm in.  I'm racing for this first time this year so I have an extreme bike focus so I'm really interested in what kind of gains I can get.  My current FTP is around 255/260 at about 90 kg, so 2.9ish. - I haven't successfully completed an indoor test in about two years, but I raced an Oly aquabike back in September and averaged 244 watts for 70 minutes after a hammered Oly swim.

Sufferfest 4DP test tomorrow scheduled (that measures your W/kg across four points on your power curve vs. just FTP).

I have no delusions about 4.0 but I'd be happy with a 15% increase across the board with the bike focus.

2020-02-02 9:58 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

OK, I'm in.  I'm racing for this first time this year so I have an extreme bike focus so I'm really interested in what kind of gains I can get.  My current FTP is around 255/260 at about 90 kg, so 2.9ish. - I haven't successfully completed an indoor test in about two years, but I raced an Oly aquabike back in September and averaged 244 watts for 70 minutes after a hammered Oly swim.

Sufferfest 4DP test tomorrow scheduled (that measures your W/kg across four points on your power curve vs. just FTP).

I have no delusions about 4.0 but I'd be happy with a 15% increase across the board with the bike focus.



Welcome to the challenge Michael!

I did some tests on the trainer this week using the Jorge's Plan calculator and the tests yielded an output of 3.19watts/kg.


2020-02-03 7:18 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Well, I physically survived the 4DP test which was brutal.  The 1 minute test at the end brings out swear words you didn't even know. 

Results were better than November across the board after about 9-10 weeks of training.

Neuromuscular 5s power:  745w
Anaerobic capacity 1m power:  418w
Maximum aerobic 5m power:  318w
Functional threshold FTP 20m power:  245w

I'm still thinking the FTP is a little low given my performance outdoors in September (and knowing that outdoor tests are usually better but more variant).  I've also been training with it set at 260 and have had no problems with the sweet spot and threshold intervals, so I'm going to keep it there for now.  Still at 2.9w/kg for FTP.

I've got a decent bout of bike work this week then a short taper before attempting the Tour of Sufferlandria starting next Friday. 

https://thesufferfest.com/pages/tour-of-sufferlandria-2020-the-stages

 

2020-02-04 3:30 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Well, I physically survived the 4DP test which was brutal.  The 1 minute test at the end brings out swear words you didn't even know. 

Results were better than November across the board after about 9-10 weeks of training.

Neuromuscular 5s power:  745w
Anaerobic capacity 1m power:  418w
Maximum aerobic 5m power:  318w
Functional threshold FTP 20m power:  245w

I'm still thinking the FTP is a little low given my performance outdoors in September (and knowing that outdoor tests are usually better but more variant).  I've also been training with it set at 260 and have had no problems with the sweet spot and threshold intervals, so I'm going to keep it there for now.  Still at 2.9w/kg for FTP.

I've got a decent bout of bike work this week then a short taper before attempting the Tour of Sufferlandria starting next Friday. 

https://thesufferfest.com/pages/tour-of-sufferlandria-2020-the-stages

 




Nice! I'd like to try that 4DP test.

Would you mind giving me the details? I studied it a bit on the website but it wasn't too descriptive about it, hehe.

My recent test results using VP:

Maximum aerobic 5m power: 250watts

Functional threshold FTP 20m power: 222watts

Weight: 146lbs=66.36kg

Power to weight ratio: 3.19watts/kg
2020-02-05 1:47 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Well, I physically survived the 4DP test which was brutal.  The 1 minute test at the end brings out swear words you didn't even know. 

Results were better than November across the board after about 9-10 weeks of training.

Neuromuscular 5s power:  745w
Anaerobic capacity 1m power:  418w
Maximum aerobic 5m power:  318w
Functional threshold FTP 20m power:  245w

I'm still thinking the FTP is a little low given my performance outdoors in September (and knowing that outdoor tests are usually better but more variant).  I've also been training with it set at 260 and have had no problems with the sweet spot and threshold intervals, so I'm going to keep it there for now.  Still at 2.9w/kg for FTP.

I've got a decent bout of bike work this week then a short taper before attempting the Tour of Sufferlandria starting next Friday. 

https://thesufferfest.com/pages/tour-of-sufferlandria-2020-the-stages

 

Nice! I'd like to try that 4DP test. Would you mind giving me the details? I studied it a bit on the website but it wasn't too descriptive about it, hehe. My recent test results using VP: Maximum aerobic 5m power: 250watts Functional threshold FTP 20m power: 222watts Weight: 146lbs=66.36kg Power to weight ratio: 3.19watts/kg

Sure - first you have to subscribe to Sufferfest and download their app, which only works on Windows and iOS right now (no Android yet - I think early spring).  Then there's a whole tutorial in the app when you find that workout - talks about strategy and preparation for the test.

https://thesufferfest.com/blogs/training-resources/how-to-get-the-most-out-of-full-frontal

I think you can do a two-week trial. 

If you're using virtual power that's fine but remember VP is not accurate, just consistent (so your actual power numbers could be off by a decent amount, but as long as they're consistently off which they should be with a decent trainer power curve you'll be fine for training).  My real FTP number went down almost 50 watts going from virtual power on a Kinetic Road Machine fluid trainer to a Powertap hub.  Quite humbling.  LOL



Edited by jmhpsu93 2020-02-05 1:48 PM
2020-02-06 11:51 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

If you're using virtual power that's fine but remember VP is not accurate, just consistent (so your actual power numbers could be off by a decent amount, but as long as they're consistently off which they should be with a decent trainer power curve you'll be fine for training).  My real FTP number went down almost 50 watts going from virtual power on a Kinetic Road Machine fluid trainer to a Powertap hub.  Quite humbling.  LOL



Wow, such a difference! O_O
2020-02-15 11:01 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

The guy that won 45-49 Kona last year does a "real" 5 w/kg. When I say real I mean he can do 5w/kg for an hour, which is scary.


2020-02-18 11:57 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by marcag


The guy that won 45-49 Kona last year does a "real" 5 w/kg. When I say real I mean he can do 5w/kg for an hour, which is scary.

Wow! That's scary indeed! O_O
2020-02-26 11:24 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
I just finished Jorge's Plan "Improve Slow Glycolysis" phase last week and this week is my FTP test week!

My recent test results using VP:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: Will test this Friday

Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~216watts (+8)

Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg

Power to weight ratio: 3.23watts/kg

I was hoping I'd be able to score slightly higher numbers but I'm still happy with the gains I've made since it's obvious I've gotten fitter. I had a full body deep tissue massage Monday after work and I still have some sore spots which may have hindered my performance a bit.

I've gained 1 pound since my last test week and I attribute most of that to some lean muscle built doing strength training twice a week. I'm moving onto the "Improve Critical Power" phase next week and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be hell all of March, hehe.

How are you guys doing as February 2020 comes to an end?

Roland
2020-02-27 6:15 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by kloofyroland

I just finished Jorge's Plan "Improve Slow Glycolysis" phase last week and this week is my FTP test week!

My recent test results using VP:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: Will test this Friday

Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~216watts (+8)

Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg

Power to weight ratio: 3.23watts/kg

I was hoping I'd be able to score slightly higher numbers but I'm still happy with the gains I've made since it's obvious I've gotten fitter. I had a full body deep tissue massage Monday after work and I still have some sore spots which may have hindered my performance a bit.

I've gained 1 pound since my last test week and I attribute most of that to some lean muscle built doing strength training twice a week. I'm moving onto the "Improve Critical Power" phase next week and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be hell all of March, hehe.

How are you guys doing as February 2020 comes to an end?

Roland


Are you calculating your w/kg from you FTP or from your 20min power.
Is 216 your 20min power ?
2020-02-27 11:23 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by kloofyroland

I just finished Jorge's Plan "Improve Slow Glycolysis" phase last week and this week is my FTP test week!

My recent test results using VP:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3)

Maximum aerobic 5m power: Will test this Friday

Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~216watts (+8)

Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg

Power to weight ratio: 3.23watts/kg

I was hoping I'd be able to score slightly higher numbers but I'm still happy with the gains I've made since it's obvious I've gotten fitter. I had a full body deep tissue massage Monday after work and I still have some sore spots which may have hindered my performance a bit.

I've gained 1 pound since my last test week and I attribute most of that to some lean muscle built doing strength training twice a week. I'm moving onto the "Improve Critical Power" phase next week and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be hell all of March, hehe.

How are you guys doing as February 2020 comes to an end?

Roland


Are you calculating your w/kg from you FTP or from your 20min power.
Is 216 your 20min power ?



Oh shoot, good catch Marc! My 20 minute power is 226.8watts. 95% of that is about 216watts. I'm calculating my watts/kg using the 95% #.

Roland
2020-02-28 8:03 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by kloofyroland I just finished Jorge's Plan "Improve Slow Glycolysis" phase last week and this week is my FTP test week! My recent test results using VP: Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3) Maximum aerobic 5m power: Will test this Friday Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~216watts (+8) Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg Power to weight ratio: 3.23watts/kg I was hoping I'd be able to score slightly higher numbers but I'm still happy with the gains I've made since it's obvious I've gotten fitter. I had a full body deep tissue massage Monday after work and I still have some sore spots which may have hindered my performance a bit. I've gained 1 pound since my last test week and I attribute most of that to some lean muscle built doing strength training twice a week. I'm moving onto the "Improve Critical Power" phase next week and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be hell all of March, hehe. How are you guys doing as February 2020 comes to an end? Roland
Are you calculating your w/kg from you FTP or from your 20min power. Is 216 your 20min power ?
Oh shoot, good catch Marc! My 20 minute power is 226.8watts. 95% of that is about 216watts. I'm calculating my watts/kg using the 95% #. Roland

And I think the 20' test is only accurate if you do the 5' test in front of it, like on TrainerRoad.

As for #&^$&!!!! Jorge's plan, wait until the 6 x 4' @ 105%, 45" RBI workout.  It's hell. 

I just got over a nasty cold which interrupted my Sufferfest Tour of Sufferlandria after one stage.  I lost like a week of training so I'm just adding a little bit to this week's recovery before I start by first build phase next week.  My next test is at the end of March.



2020-02-28 4:50 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by kloofyroland I just finished Jorge's Plan "Improve Slow Glycolysis" phase last week and this week is my FTP test week! My recent test results using VP: Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3) Maximum aerobic 5m power: Will test this Friday Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~216watts (+8) Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg Power to weight ratio: 3.23watts/kg I was hoping I'd be able to score slightly higher numbers but I'm still happy with the gains I've made since it's obvious I've gotten fitter. I had a full body deep tissue massage Monday after work and I still have some sore spots which may have hindered my performance a bit. I've gained 1 pound since my last test week and I attribute most of that to some lean muscle built doing strength training twice a week. I'm moving onto the "Improve Critical Power" phase next week and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be hell all of March, hehe. How are you guys doing as February 2020 comes to an end? Roland
Are you calculating your w/kg from you FTP or from your 20min power. Is 216 your 20min power ?
Oh shoot, good catch Marc! My 20 minute power is 226.8watts. 95% of that is about 216watts. I'm calculating my watts/kg using the 95% #. Roland

And I think the 20' test is only accurate if you do the 5' test in front of it, like on TrainerRoad.

As for #&^$&!!!! Jorge's plan, wait until the 6 x 4' @ 105%, 45" RBI workout.  It's hell. 

I just got over a nasty cold which interrupted my Sufferfest Tour of Sufferlandria after one stage.  I lost like a week of training so I'm just adding a little bit to this week's recovery before I start by first build phase next week.  My next test is at the end of March.




The test protocol I used had me doing a 3:00 all out interval followed by 3x1:00s before the 20 minute test. Believe me, I hate doing that 3:00 interval before the 20:00.

Oh yes, I did those 6x4@105% the past 3 weeks and they were NASTY!!!

Glad you're back on the mend man. I'm looking forward to seeing your new test results.

As for me, I made some miscalculations with my wattage. Here are my new test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3)
Maximum aerobic 5m power: 255watts (+5)
Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~223watts (+5)

Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg (+1.0lb)
Power to weight ratio: 3.17watts/kg (+0.06)

Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.24watts/kg using 3m power and 3.18watts/kg using 5m power

Which power to weight ratio result should I pay closer attention to to determine my new power zones? I'd love to use 3.24 since it's closer to 4.0, hehehe.
2020-03-03 10:30 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyrolandHere are my new test results: Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3) Maximum aerobic 5m power: 255watts (+5) Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~223watts (+5) Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg (+1.0lb) Power to weight ratio: 3.17watts/kg (+0.06) Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.24watts/kg using 3m power and 3.18watts/kg using 5m power Which power to weight ratio result should I pay closer attention to to determine my new power zones? I'd love to use 3.24 since it's closer to 4.0, hehehe.

3.17 to 3.24 is probably within the testing margin of error so it probably doesn't matter, but hell use the 3.24 because it's closer to 4.0. 

2020-03-04 5:03 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kloofyrolandHere are my new test results: Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~261watts (+3) Maximum aerobic 5m power: 255watts (+5) Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~223watts (+5) Weight: 147lbs=66.82kg (+1.0lb) Power to weight ratio: 3.17watts/kg (+0.06) Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.24watts/kg using 3m power and 3.18watts/kg using 5m power Which power to weight ratio result should I pay closer attention to to determine my new power zones? I'd love to use 3.24 since it's closer to 4.0, hehehe.

3.17 to 3.24 is probably within the testing margin of error so it probably doesn't matter, but hell use the 3.24 because it's closer to 4.0. 



Awww yeah! Bring on the pain baby! hehehe
2020-03-29 8:26 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Finished Jorge's Plan Week 15. Excited to see what my next FTP test results are gonna be this coming Tuesday. Resting up well for it.
2020-03-30 6:44 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Originally posted by kloofyroland Finished Jorge's Plan Week 15. Excited to see what my next FTP test results are gonna be this coming Tuesday. Resting up well for it.

Nice - don't forget to keep up with some taper workouts and a primer the day before.  Get a good soundtrack ready and bring a bucket!



2020-03-31 12:16 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kloofyroland Finished Jorge's Plan Week 15. Excited to see what my next FTP test results are gonna be this coming Tuesday. Resting up well for it.

Nice - don't forget to keep up with some taper workouts and a primer the day before.  Get a good soundtrack ready and bring a bucket!



Got it done! I'll post the fitness gains after the 5' test I'll do this Thursday or Friday. I didn't do a primer workout yesterday though, damn. What makes up a good primer workout Michael?

Roland
2020-03-31 1:14 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020

Usually a primer workout is like 15' WU, 5' @ FTP, 10' easy, then a couple of 1' efforts like 120%-ish with full recovery.  So all-in maybe 30-40'.  Sufferfest and TrainerRoad both have examples.  You do it about 24 hours before your test, usually with a day off preceeding.

2020-03-31 11:31 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Usually a primer workout is like 15' WU, 5' @ FTP, 10' easy, then a couple of 1' efforts like 120%-ish with full recovery.  So all-in maybe 30-40'.  Sufferfest and TrainerRoad both have examples.  You do it about 24 hours before your test, usually with a day off preceeding.



Ahh okay, thanks. This is the first time I heard of doing a primer workout before an FTP test.
2020-04-03 9:38 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0 watts/kg in 2020
Test results:

Maximum sub-anaerobic capacity 3m power: ~264watts (+3)
Maximum aerobic 5m power: 261watts (+6)
Functional threshold FTP 20m power: ~229watts (+5)

Weight: 146.0lbs=66.36kg (-1.2lb)
Power to weight ratio: 3.27watts/kg (+0.10)

Jorge's Plan Calculator = 3.35watts/kg (+0.11) using 3m power and 3.28watts/kg using 5m power (+0.10)

Pretty even gains across the board though it looks like I could use a bit of work at the top end see I've made the smallest gains there.
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2020-10-05 5:03 PM kloofyroland