Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Some of these answers highlight one of the things that I was trying to draw out with my original post.  It seems like this country has moved away from being able to have a substansive debate.  It used to be that people from both sides of the isle could look at an issue and debate how best deal with it.  Now, we cant even seem to agree on facts.  Everything devolves into attacks on the other side. 

How can this country get back to actual debates?  Does anyone feel like we can really move forward as a country if we don't?

McFuzz, you suggest doing the same thing for Biden.  I ask that you take a few minutes to do so.  I mentioned a few things in my original post.  I also clearly stated that I strongly disliked Clinton and would never vote for her.  What has Biden done that you feel is on her level or that of DT?

LB, I would like to understand your position better on the left.  Can you post a link to some of your thoughts on that subject?  I'd like to understand it better.

Briderdt, which item do you believe is not reasonable?  Do you think they are all unreasonable?  If so, why?  Please try to add something to the conversation.

Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate.  That may be delusional or idealistic.  If so, what do you think is going to happen to this country going forward?  Is there any logical conclusion that isnt that the great American experiment with democracy is dead?

i don’t need to “attack” Biden in response to your OP which is why I suggest you be as critical against him as you are Trump.  

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate. 

BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  He doesn't even know where the road is. LMAO    Oh, I know, that moron Harris will lead the country.

I am disappointed but not surprised by some of responses here.  It is similar to some of the conversations I've tried to have with Trump supporters in other places. 

Biggest issue is the unwillingness to discuss anything of substance.  Why not?  Is it because they can't defend so many of the things Trump has done?  Some may then discredit Biden and Democrats.  But it is personal attacks.  Nothing on policy, other than "its Socialism!".  Is there any real Republican platform these days?

I also quickly get classified as being "left".  No.  Sorry.  I am a long time Republican.  I wanted Bill Clinton impeached.  I didnt trust Hillary further than I could throw her.  I liked a lot of the things that John McCain stood for and represented.  I get the sense that its easier for Trump supporters to dismiss or disregard what I say or ask if I am classified as being left. 

Now that said, I am unquestionably anti-Trump.  I am alarmed by what I see going on.  That is supported by the unprecedented number of officials who served in the administration or national security of Republican presidents who say unequivocally that Trump is a significant threat to democracy and fully support Biden.  When so many people who are very likely "in the know" and are from the same party as the president say that, my alarm bells go off.  

It is truly dumbfounding to me why it does not for 40% of our population.  That is the primary reason why I'm trying to have a discourse.  

sorry,

you won’t get “discourse” leading with a litany of headline statements attacking Trump.  It simply comes across as trolling.  How much have you dug into the 16 attacks of your original post to form your own opinion beyond the media headlines?  

Just taking one of them...your arrack on Trump canning IG’s.  Did you consider whether any of them were derelict?  As THE top executive, Trump is free to fire any executive branch employee and answer to voters for his actions.  That includes IG’s as well as “career” personnel.  

Please support your attack that Trump is “stealing” the election.  What hard evidence do you have?  Keep in mind, each state conducts it’s own election usually under the Secretary of State and local election boards.  Trump isn’t responsible for polling place staffing, lines, hours, or ballot counting.  How do you claim he’s trying to “steal the election.”  Hint:  BOTH sides try to exploit the rules to their advantage.  

I am writing this post as an open invitation to Trump supporters to explain their support.  I am a long time Republican voter who has moved significantly away from the current party members.  I truly cannot understand why there are still ~40% of the US population that still supports him.  I am posting this to see if someone can explain how they accept the following:  This is not necessarily in order nor a complete list.

1) Trump clearly enlisting foreign help for our elections, something the Constitution is strongly against.  

2) The absurd and deadly response to Covid.  The lying about it and downplaying it to gain perceived political advantage. The politicizing of basic things like wearing a mask.  The unwillingness to put together a national response, leaving the states to fend for themselves. The touting of unproven and unsupported treatments like hydroxycloroquine and injecting bleach.

3) Claiming to be "Law and Order" when being blatantly and clearly guilty of law breaking such as the Hatch Act, campaign finance, and obstruction of justice.  Further, how many of his inner circle of advisors have either been found or pled guilty to various felonies?  10?

4) The blatant support of white supremacy and other far, far right groups.  Not incidentally, how the FBI and other law enforcement have stated that these groups are a significant terrorist threat.

5) How does he support that 17 year old who shot 2 protestors and has been a Trump rally attender in the past?  What happened to the system of justice?  Why is it ok for right-wing people to take vigilantism into their own hands?  Why can't or won't he denounce violence when committed by right wing people?

6) How many provisions of the Constitution does he have to trample?  He has attacked the press from the start of his administration, terming them "Enemies of the People", among other things.  How about using para military with tear gas and other weapons to clear out peaceful protestors so he can get a photo op in front of a church?  First Amendment anyone?

7) The politicization of the US government.  Trump requires an oath of loyalty.  Not to the constitution but to him.  Look at what he has done to the Department of Justice.  Its supposed to not be political.  Bill Barr has turned it into Trump's personal lawfirm.    Trump's allies gain leniency, his opponents get targeted.

8) He's even politicized the post office.  He has put his own stooge in there, who has enormous conflicts of interest, to slow down the post office for political advantage.

9) How many inspector generals, who's job is to be a whistle-blower and make sure the government operates legally and ethically, have been fired?  How many internal checks on operating legally have been removed?

10) Why is he so against science and experts?  How does he ignore climate change and health experts?  Why are so many of his cabinet and other senior appointees believed to be unqualified?

11) How does anyone defend what has transpired on the southern border?  Family separation? Forced hysterectomies? This is stuff out of Nazi Germany.  And its being done in our name.

12) How many women have credibly accused him of sexual assault?  35?

13) How can one ignore his blatant and obvious attempts to steal the election?

14) How the US has fallen so far in the world.  We are laughed at internationally now.

15) Why have several dozen former administrative and security officials from Republican presidents (Reagan, Bush, Bush, Trump) come out and said that Trump is a threat to democracy and they support Biden?  How many republican elected officials have come out in support of Biden for the same reason?

16) How can anyone ignore the obvious parallels to his actions and those of authoritarians across the globe and in history?

There are many more things.  And so I turn to Biden.  Do I like him?  Not a huge amount.  I sure as heck wasn't going to vote for Hillary, so I like him more than her.  Do I think he's lost a step mentally?  Yes, but not as much as Trump seems to have.  Oh, how about Trumps surprise rushed visit to Walter Reed?  Trump's mentioned mental acuity tests and mini-strokes in interviews since then.  Anyone see Trump's town hall last night?  Who is declining mentally?

Will the country go really far left under Biden and Harris' direction?  It didnt under Obama.  No rioting in the streets.  No mass-movement of low income people into the suburbs.  What are the left's biggest talking points, healthcare and environment?  Does anyone think the current setup is sustainable?  Sure seems like we have real problems in the country with those.  I do not agree with Biden's approach to those but at least he's trying to address them.  Taxes?  The Biden plan is to increase on those over $400K.  Seems like a good idea given the record deficits we're running even before Covid.  De-fund the police?  Biden has consistently said that's a non-starter.

So I ask Trump supporters, how do you defend him?  How can you support him?  How do you honestly think we are better off with him as president?  Where do you think this country will be in four years if he is re-elected?  Do you honestly think we will have a democracy any longer?  Those former admin and security officials in Republican administrations believe there is a serious risk that we won't.

I again, honestly do not comprehend how any American who believes in democracy and decency can support him.  Please help me understand how.