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2020-09-16 5:08 PM

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Subject: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

I am writing this post as an open invitation to Trump supporters to explain their support.  I am a long time Republican voter who has moved significantly away from the current party members.  I truly cannot understand why there are still ~40% of the US population that still supports him.  I am posting this to see if someone can explain how they accept the following:  This is not necessarily in order nor a complete list.

1) Trump clearly enlisting foreign help for our elections, something the Constitution is strongly against.  

2) The absurd and deadly response to Covid.  The lying about it and downplaying it to gain perceived political advantage. The politicizing of basic things like wearing a mask.  The unwillingness to put together a national response, leaving the states to fend for themselves. The touting of unproven and unsupported treatments like hydroxycloroquine and injecting bleach.

3) Claiming to be "Law and Order" when being blatantly and clearly guilty of law breaking such as the Hatch Act, campaign finance, and obstruction of justice.  Further, how many of his inner circle of advisors have either been found or pled guilty to various felonies?  10?

4) The blatant support of white supremacy and other far, far right groups.  Not incidentally, how the FBI and other law enforcement have stated that these groups are a significant terrorist threat.

5) How does he support that 17 year old who shot 2 protestors and has been a Trump rally attender in the past?  What happened to the system of justice?  Why is it ok for right-wing people to take vigilantism into their own hands?  Why can't or won't he denounce violence when committed by right wing people?

6) How many provisions of the Constitution does he have to trample?  He has attacked the press from the start of his administration, terming them "Enemies of the People", among other things.  How about using para military with tear gas and other weapons to clear out peaceful protestors so he can get a photo op in front of a church?  First Amendment anyone?

7) The politicization of the US government.  Trump requires an oath of loyalty.  Not to the constitution but to him.  Look at what he has done to the Department of Justice.  Its supposed to not be political.  Bill Barr has turned it into Trump's personal lawfirm.    Trump's allies gain leniency, his opponents get targeted.

8) He's even politicized the post office.  He has put his own stooge in there, who has enormous conflicts of interest, to slow down the post office for political advantage.

9) How many inspector generals, who's job is to be a whistle-blower and make sure the government operates legally and ethically, have been fired?  How many internal checks on operating legally have been removed?

10) Why is he so against science and experts?  How does he ignore climate change and health experts?  Why are so many of his cabinet and other senior appointees believed to be unqualified?

11) How does anyone defend what has transpired on the southern border?  Family separation? Forced hysterectomies? This is stuff out of Nazi Germany.  And its being done in our name.

12) How many women have credibly accused him of sexual assault?  35?

13) How can one ignore his blatant and obvious attempts to steal the election?

14) How the US has fallen so far in the world.  We are laughed at internationally now.

15) Why have several dozen former administrative and security officials from Republican presidents (Reagan, Bush, Bush, Trump) come out and said that Trump is a threat to democracy and they support Biden?  How many republican elected officials have come out in support of Biden for the same reason?

16) How can anyone ignore the obvious parallels to his actions and those of authoritarians across the globe and in history?

 

There are many more things.  And so I turn to Biden.  Do I like him?  Not a huge amount.  I sure as heck wasn't going to vote for Hillary, so I like him more than her.  Do I think he's lost a step mentally?  Yes, but not as much as Trump seems to have.  Oh, how about Trumps surprise rushed visit to Walter Reed?  Trump's mentioned mental acuity tests and mini-strokes in interviews since then.  Anyone see Trump's town hall last night?  Who is declining mentally?

Will the country go really far left under Biden and Harris' direction?  It didnt under Obama.  No rioting in the streets.  No mass-movement of low income people into the suburbs.  What are the left's biggest talking points, healthcare and environment?  Does anyone think the current setup is sustainable?  Sure seems like we have real problems in the country with those.  I do not agree with Biden's approach to those but at least he's trying to address them.  Taxes?  The Biden plan is to increase on those over $400K.  Seems like a good idea given the record deficits we're running even before Covid.  De-fund the police?  Biden has consistently said that's a non-starter.

 

So I ask Trump supporters, how do you defend him?  How can you support him?  How do you honestly think we are better off with him as president?  Where do you think this country will be in four years if he is re-elected?  Do you honestly think we will have a democracy any longer?  Those former admin and security officials in Republican administrations believe there is a serious risk that we won't.

I again, honestly do not comprehend how any American who believes in democracy and decency can support him.  Please help me understand how. 



2020-09-17 7:12 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
I'm sorry you had to type all of whatever that is. I quit reading after your first sentence. It's simple....I have see what liberals are trying to do to this country. I will vote for ANYONE who opposes the Democrat party.
2020-09-17 7:48 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Some one has been scanning too many headlines.

2020-09-17 9:24 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

There seems to be a trait in many people that they can get onto these massive bandwagons and once on they are hard to get off.

"We don't want to become a socialist country like Venezuela" is my favorite.

And people believe so strongly in these totally ridiculous ideas that they are willing to minimize any of the points you brought up.

You bring up rape accusations, they counter with Clinton was no better. You bring up all the people around him in jail, they claim it's the left persecuting him. You bring up how he is perceived internationally, they say it's because he defends America first.

Anything that goes against their basic idea, gets dismissed. BTW, both sides do this. You have some real nutcakes on the left.

That list gets diluted and at the end, he is better than "Socialism" or whatever bandwagon people are on.

To me, one of the biggest issues is there is no way of getting credible information to people. There is too much information and 99% of it is false.

"He is fighting the evil socialists"
"He is not a regular politician"
"He is a straight shooter"
"He made us very rich before the China Virus."

and "I don't believe any of that other stuff on the list"









2020-09-17 9:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Nah....my deal is that I hate the old political machines.....like the Clinton's, Bush's, and now here comes Biden....no thanks.  On top of that, like I said, it became obvious to me, as I moved toward the left on social issues, that it just wasn't enough for them.  It's not enough until I kneel.....well fork that....it will NEVER happen.

 Now they get nothing from me.  i will vote against any left leaning program for the rest of my life.....without even looking at what the candidate on the right is doing.  The left did that to themselves.



Edited by Left Brain 2020-09-17 9:35 AM
2020-09-17 10:12 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Please pose and then answer the same kind of questions for Biden (and if you do the same for Clinton 2016 you’ll see why Trump won).  



2020-09-17 11:00 AM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Some of these answers highlight one of the things that I was trying to draw out with my original post.  It seems like this country has moved away from being able to have a substansive debate.  It used to be that people from both sides of the isle could look at an issue and debate how best deal with it.  Now, we cant even seem to agree on facts.  Everything devolves into attacks on the other side. 

How can this country get back to actual debates?  Does anyone feel like we can really move forward as a country if we don't?

McFuzz, you suggest doing the same thing for Biden.  I ask that you take a few minutes to do so.  I mentioned a few things in my original post.  I also clearly stated that I strongly disliked Clinton and would never vote for her.  What has Biden done that you feel is on her level or that of DT?

LB, I would like to understand your position better on the left.  Can you post a link to some of your thoughts on that subject?  I'd like to understand it better.

Briderdt, which item do you believe is not reasonable?  Do you think they are all unreasonable?  If so, why?  Please try to add something to the conversation.

Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate.  That may be delusional or idealistic.  If so, what do you think is going to happen to this country going forward?  Is there any logical conclusion that isnt that the great American experiment with democracy is dead?

2020-09-17 11:15 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Originally posted by Ridgelake

Some of these answers highlight one of the things that I was trying to draw out with my original post.  It seems like this country has moved away from being able to have a substansive debate.  It used to be that people from both sides of the isle could look at an issue and debate how best deal with it.  Now, we cant even seem to agree on facts.  Everything devolves into attacks on the other side. 

How can this country get back to actual debates?  Does anyone feel like we can really move forward as a country if we don't?

McFuzz, you suggest doing the same thing for Biden.  I ask that you take a few minutes to do so.  I mentioned a few things in my original post.  I also clearly stated that I strongly disliked Clinton and would never vote for her.  What has Biden done that you feel is on her level or that of DT?

LB, I would like to understand your position better on the left.  Can you post a link to some of your thoughts on that subject?  I'd like to understand it better.

Briderdt, which item do you believe is not reasonable?  Do you think they are all unreasonable?  If so, why?  Please try to add something to the conversation.

Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate.  That may be delusional or idealistic.  If so, what do you think is going to happen to this country going forward?  Is there any logical conclusion that isnt that the great American experiment with democracy is dead?

i don’t need to “attack” Biden in response to your OP which is why I suggest you be as critical against him as you are Trump.  

2020-09-17 11:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by Ridgelake

Some of these answers highlight one of the things that I was trying to draw out with my original post.  It seems like this country has moved away from being able to have a substansive debate.  It used to be that people from both sides of the isle could look at an issue and debate how best deal with it.  Now, we cant even seem to agree on facts.  Everything devolves into attacks on the other side. 

How can this country get back to actual debates?  Does anyone feel like we can really move forward as a country if we don't?

McFuzz, you suggest doing the same thing for Biden.  I ask that you take a few minutes to do so.  I mentioned a few things in my original post.  I also clearly stated that I strongly disliked Clinton and would never vote for her.  What has Biden done that you feel is on her level or that of DT?

LB, I would like to understand your position better on the left.  Can you post a link to some of your thoughts on that subject?  I'd like to understand it better.

Briderdt, which item do you believe is not reasonable?  Do you think they are all unreasonable?  If so, why?  Please try to add something to the conversation.

Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate.  That may be delusional or idealistic.  If so, what do you think is going to happen to this country going forward?  Is there any logical conclusion that isnt that the great American experiment with democracy is dead?

i don’t need to “attack” Biden in response to your OP which is why I suggest you be as critical against him as you are Trump.  

No, I don't care to explain anything to anyone on the left.....I'm done with them.



Edited by Left Brain 2020-09-17 11:24 AM
2020-09-17 1:17 PM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
Originally posted by Ridgelake
Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate. 



Nutcakes is strong. But I don't believe it's at the fringes

There are people at the two extremes. At one point there was "no discussion to be had" with the 10% most to the right and 10% most to the left.

Those numbers have increased dramatically. There is probably no more discussion at 30% to the right and 30% to the left. And it is growing.

I suspect most people in this thread are in one of those camps, although I don't think there are too many on the left :-)

My hope is Biden gets in and that he governs more middle of the road. Hopefully a more middle of the road republican will come around next election and you get back to some type of normal. The current situation is not sustainable.





2020-09-17 2:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate. 

Nutcakes is strong. But I don't believe it's at the fringes There are people at the two extremes. At one point there was "no discussion to be had" with the 10% most to the right and 10% most to the left. Those numbers have increased dramatically. There is probably no more discussion at 30% to the right and 30% to the left. And it is growing. I suspect most people in this thread are in one of those camps, although I don't think there are too many on the left :-) My hope is Biden gets in and that he governs more middle of the road. Hopefully a more middle of the road republican will come around next election and you get back to some type of normal. The current situation is not sustainable.

BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  He doesn't even know where the road is. LMAO    Oh, I know, that moron Harris will lead the country.

 



Edited by Left Brain 2020-09-17 2:31 PM


2020-09-17 2:53 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Originally posted by marcag My hope is Biden gets in and that he governs ...

And that's a complete delusion. Biden isn't anything more than a temporary puppet. The end goal is Harris in the White House and the destruction of everything conservative in the US.

2020-09-17 3:04 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake Marc, I completely agree that there are nutcakes on the fringes of both sides.  I don't think there is any hope of discussing with them on how best move the country forward in a way that works for a majority.

But my hope is that there is a way that a majority of people in this country can try to get back to reasonable discussion and debate. 

Nutcakes is strong. But I don't believe it's at the fringes There are people at the two extremes. At one point there was "no discussion to be had" with the 10% most to the right and 10% most to the left. Those numbers have increased dramatically. There is probably no more discussion at 30% to the right and 30% to the left. And it is growing. I suspect most people in this thread are in one of those camps, although I don't think there are too many on the left :-) My hope is Biden gets in and that he governs more middle of the road. Hopefully a more middle of the road republican will come around next election and you get back to some type of normal. The current situation is not sustainable.

BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  He doesn't even know where the road is. LMAO    Oh, I know, that moron Harris will lead the country.

 




There is probably a ton of people who would agree Biden is not where he should be but they will vote for him anyway. Says a lot about what they think of Trump.

Hard to believe this is the best you guys could put forward.





2020-09-17 3:42 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

I am disappointed but not surprised by some of responses here.  It is similar to some of the conversations I've tried to have with Trump supporters in other places. 

Biggest issue is the unwillingness to discuss anything of substance.  Why not?  Is it because they can't defend so many of the things Trump has done?  Some may then discredit Biden and Democrats.  But it is personal attacks.  Nothing on policy, other than "its Socialism!".  Is there any real Republican platform these days?

I also quickly get classified as being "left".  No.  Sorry.  I am a long time Republican.  I wanted Bill Clinton impeached.  I didnt trust Hillary further than I could throw her.  I liked a lot of the things that John McCain stood for and represented.  I get the sense that its easier for Trump supporters to dismiss or disregard what I say or ask if I am classified as being left. 

Now that said, I am unquestionably anti-Trump.  I am alarmed by what I see going on.  That is supported by the unprecedented number of officials who served in the administration or national security of Republican presidents who say unequivocally that Trump is a significant threat to democracy and fully support Biden.  When so many people who are very likely "in the know" and are from the same party as the president say that, my alarm bells go off.  

It is truly dumbfounding to me why it does not for 40% of our population.  That is the primary reason why I'm trying to have a discourse.  

2020-09-17 5:22 PM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Originally posted by Ridgelake

I am disappointed but not surprised by some of responses here.  It is similar to some of the conversations I've tried to have with Trump supporters in other places. 

Biggest issue is the unwillingness to discuss anything of substance.  Why not?  Is it because they can't defend so many of the things Trump has done?  Some may then discredit Biden and Democrats.  But it is personal attacks.  Nothing on policy, other than "its Socialism!".  Is there any real Republican platform these days?

I also quickly get classified as being "left".  No.  Sorry.  I am a long time Republican.  I wanted Bill Clinton impeached.  I didnt trust Hillary further than I could throw her.  I liked a lot of the things that John McCain stood for and represented.  I get the sense that its easier for Trump supporters to dismiss or disregard what I say or ask if I am classified as being left. 

Now that said, I am unquestionably anti-Trump.  I am alarmed by what I see going on.  That is supported by the unprecedented number of officials who served in the administration or national security of Republican presidents who say unequivocally that Trump is a significant threat to democracy and fully support Biden.  When so many people who are very likely "in the know" and are from the same party as the president say that, my alarm bells go off.  

It is truly dumbfounding to me why it does not for 40% of our population.  That is the primary reason why I'm trying to have a discourse.  

sorry,

you won’t get “discourse” leading with a litany of headline statements attacking Trump.  It simply comes across as trolling.  How much have you dug into the 16 attacks of your original post to form your own opinion beyond the media headlines?  

Just taking one of them...your arrack on Trump canning IG’s.  Did you consider whether any of them were derelict?  As THE top executive, Trump is free to fire any executive branch employee and answer to voters for his actions.  That includes IG’s as well as “career” personnel.  

Please support your attack that Trump is “stealing” the election.  What hard evidence do you have?  Keep in mind, each state conducts it’s own election usually under the Secretary of State and local election boards.  Trump isn’t responsible for polling place staffing, lines, hours, or ballot counting.  How do you claim he’s trying to “steal the election.”  Hint:  BOTH sides try to exploit the rules to their advantage.  

 

2020-09-18 12:18 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
Why does he have high approval ratings from the right? In short, because he did or tried to do exactly what he said he’d do if elected in 2016. I could google his accomplishments but that would be too easy. I’ll list a few off the top of my head.

Pulled out to Paris accord.
Pulled out of ridiculous Iran deal
Move US Embassy in Israel
Passed tax cuts
Ended unconstitutional Obamacare mandate
Approved Keystone pipeline
Is building the wall to stem the flow of illegals
Appointed 200+ conservative federal judges
Eliminated tons of burdensome federal regs
Supports the life of the unborn
Supports the second amendment
Renegotiated NAFTA
Fighting China on trade imbalance
Supports the military and VA
Defends the US Flag and opposes kneeling in sports
Brokered two huge peace deals in the Middle East
Forcing NATO counties to pay what they are supposed to pay


These are all issues that I care about. And he did all this in the face of non stop attacks by the extremely biased liberal media.

There are many, many more accomplishments that I support and applaud but these are just a few off the top of my head. Many of these accomplishments have and will continue to change the trajectory of the nation.

So if you want to discuss real issues let’s start with what he has accomplished. I voted for Trump because I liked what he said he was going to do and by God, he actually did them. Obama promised hope and change and we got neither.

As to Biden...I’ve been clear on him. I believe he is in serious and exponential mental decline. It happens to everyone...even Reagan after he left office. He is nothing more than a puppet now and does what his handlers tell him to do and say.


2020-09-18 5:56 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by Ridgelake

I am disappointed but not surprised by some of responses here.  It is similar to some of the conversations I've tried to have with Trump supporters in other places. 

Biggest issue is the unwillingness to discuss anything of substance.  Why not?  Is it because they can't defend so many of the things Trump has done?  Some may then discredit Biden and Democrats.  But it is personal attacks.  Nothing on policy, other than "its Socialism!".  Is there any real Republican platform these days?

I also quickly get classified as being "left".  No.  Sorry.  I am a long time Republican.  I wanted Bill Clinton impeached.  I didnt trust Hillary further than I could throw her.  I liked a lot of the things that John McCain stood for and represented.  I get the sense that its easier for Trump supporters to dismiss or disregard what I say or ask if I am classified as being left. 

Now that said, I am unquestionably anti-Trump.  I am alarmed by what I see going on.  That is supported by the unprecedented number of officials who served in the administration or national security of Republican presidents who say unequivocally that Trump is a significant threat to democracy and fully support Biden.  When so many people who are very likely "in the know" and are from the same party as the president say that, my alarm bells go off.  

It is truly dumbfounding to me why it does not for 40% of our population.  That is the primary reason why I'm trying to have a discourse.  

sorry,

you won’t get “discourse” leading with a litany of headline statements attacking Trump.  It simply comes across as trolling.  How much have you dug into the 16 attacks of your original post to form your own opinion beyond the media headlines?  

Just taking one of them...your arrack on Trump canning IG’s.  Did you consider whether any of them were derelict?  As THE top executive, Trump is free to fire any executive branch employee and answer to voters for his actions.  That includes IG’s as well as “career” personnel.  

Please support your attack that Trump is “stealing” the election.  What hard evidence do you have?  Keep in mind, each state conducts it’s own election usually under the Secretary of State and local election boards.  Trump isn’t responsible for polling place staffing, lines, hours, or ballot counting.  How do you claim he’s trying to “steal the election.”  Hint:  BOTH sides try to exploit the rules to their advantage.  

 

No response in 24 hours...thank you for confirmation that you’re just trolling.

2020-09-18 6:31 PM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
Originally posted by Ridgelake

I am writing this post as an open invitation to Trump supporters to explain their support.  I am a long time Republican voter who has moved significantly away from the current party members.  I truly cannot understand why there are still ~40% of the US population that still supports him.  I am posting this to see if someone can explain how they accept the following:  This is not necessarily in order nor a complete list.

1) Trump clearly enlisting foreign help for our elections, something the Constitution is strongly against.  

2) The absurd and deadly response to Covid.  The lying about it and downplaying it to gain perceived political advantage. The politicizing of basic things like wearing a mask.  The unwillingness to put together a national response, leaving the states to fend for themselves. The touting of unproven and unsupported treatments like hydroxycloroquine and injecting bleach.

3) Claiming to be "Law and Order" when being blatantly and clearly guilty of law breaking such as the Hatch Act, campaign finance, and obstruction of justice.  Further, how many of his inner circle of advisors have either been found or pled guilty to various felonies?  10?

4) The blatant support of white supremacy and other far, far right groups.  Not incidentally, how the FBI and other law enforcement have stated that these groups are a significant terrorist threat.

5) How does he support that 17 year old who shot 2 protestors and has been a Trump rally attender in the past?  What happened to the system of justice?  Why is it ok for right-wing people to take vigilantism into their own hands?  Why can't or won't he denounce violence when committed by right wing people?

6) How many provisions of the Constitution does he have to trample?  He has attacked the press from the start of his administration, terming them "Enemies of the People", among other things.  How about using para military with tear gas and other weapons to clear out peaceful protestors so he can get a photo op in front of a church?  First Amendment anyone?

7) The politicization of the US government.  Trump requires an oath of loyalty.  Not to the constitution but to him.  Look at what he has done to the Department of Justice.  Its supposed to not be political.  Bill Barr has turned it into Trump's personal lawfirm.    Trump's allies gain leniency, his opponents get targeted.

8) He's even politicized the post office.  He has put his own stooge in there, who has enormous conflicts of interest, to slow down the post office for political advantage.

9) How many inspector generals, who's job is to be a whistle-blower and make sure the government operates legally and ethically, have been fired?  How many internal checks on operating legally have been removed?

10) Why is he so against science and experts?  How does he ignore climate change and health experts?  Why are so many of his cabinet and other senior appointees believed to be unqualified?

11) How does anyone defend what has transpired on the southern border?  Family separation? Forced hysterectomies? This is stuff out of Nazi Germany.  And its being done in our name.

12) How many women have credibly accused him of sexual assault?  35?

13) How can one ignore his blatant and obvious attempts to steal the election?

14) How the US has fallen so far in the world.  We are laughed at internationally now.

15) Why have several dozen former administrative and security officials from Republican presidents (Reagan, Bush, Bush, Trump) come out and said that Trump is a threat to democracy and they support Biden?  How many republican elected officials have come out in support of Biden for the same reason?

16) How can anyone ignore the obvious parallels to his actions and those of authoritarians across the globe and in history?

 

There are many more things.  And so I turn to Biden.  Do I like him?  Not a huge amount.  I sure as heck wasn't going to vote for Hillary, so I like him more than her.  Do I think he's lost a step mentally?  Yes, but not as much as Trump seems to have.  Oh, how about Trumps surprise rushed visit to Walter Reed?  Trump's mentioned mental acuity tests and mini-strokes in interviews since then.  Anyone see Trump's town hall last night?  Who is declining mentally?

Will the country go really far left under Biden and Harris' direction?  It didnt under Obama.  No rioting in the streets.  No mass-movement of low income people into the suburbs.  What are the left's biggest talking points, healthcare and environment?  Does anyone think the current setup is sustainable?  Sure seems like we have real problems in the country with those.  I do not agree with Biden's approach to those but at least he's trying to address them.  Taxes?  The Biden plan is to increase on those over $400K.  Seems like a good idea given the record deficits we're running even before Covid.  De-fund the police?  Biden has consistently said that's a non-starter.

 

So I ask Trump supporters, how do you defend him?  How can you support him?  How do you honestly think we are better off with him as president?  Where do you think this country will be in four years if he is re-elected?  Do you honestly think we will have a democracy any longer?  Those former admin and security officials in Republican administrations believe there is a serious risk that we won't.

I again, honestly do not comprehend how any American who believes in democracy and decency can support him.  Please help me understand how. 





I looked at your list and was going to address each one but much of what you state as matter of fact is just your opinion or assessment or an outright lie. Your list looks like it was compiled by CNN/MSNBC. Suggest getting your headlines from multiple sources to understand the “0ther side” if you truly are trying to “understand”. RCP is pretty neutral and posts both pro and con articles. Gateway is pro Trump in much the same way Drudge is anti Trump. Do some research and try to understand why he was elected in the first place. If you figure it out, let the Dems and the MSM know because after nearly 4 years they still don’t get it.
2020-09-18 9:45 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
Originally posted by marcag

There is probably a ton of people who would agree Biden is not where he should be but they will vote for him anyway. Says a lot about what they think of Trump.

Hard to believe this is the best you guys could put forward.



It isn't the best we could put forward, it never is and never will be. I'm always reminded of this page from the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy around election time...

“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”
2020-09-19 7:41 AM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
And now we have the final answer to OP. RBG will be replaced with a conservative. Legislation and executive orders can me undone with the next administration but the SCOTUS picks have a lasting effect on society. So even conservatives and religious conservatives who don’t really like Trump’s course personality will hold their noses and vote for Trump because it means a conservatives, interpret the law not make the law, jurists on the SCOTUS. Everything else you posted is meaningless.
2020-09-19 7:57 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
You will need to go back to the original post to see the questions for which I have provided my answers.

1. If that was the case, why did all the democrat investigations amount to nothing? I have seen nothing of interest here.
2. You must be talking about the democrats here. I believe we would have been much better off with NOT locking down and only having at risk individuals taking precautions so we would develop hear immunity. Wearing a mask, especially now, I think is way overblown. Look where Sweden is now. They never shut down and appear to have the virus under control. It does not matter what Trump would have done. The media would have found a way to turn anything he did against him.
3. It is my understanding that his attorneys evaluated this and they made sure to not have violations. If there was something here, Adam Schiff and company would have been all over it. I saw the video where Melania Trump was walking out of the white house during the convention and the media was appalled. Then I saw a video where Obama did the same thing for the democratic convention.
4. I have seen no blatant support of white supremacy by Trump. I have instead heard him repeatedly condemn white supremacists.
5. I don’t know that I would say Trump is supporting the 17 year old. He made a comment on the issue in a briefing. You make it sound like Trump is 100% behind the kid and the killings. He said the kid was attacked, which appears to be the case. He also said that the issue was under investigation, which is also true. I have read that numerous BLM supporters there were carrying guns, possibly one of the people the kid shot. All this said, it was not a good idea for the kid to be there.
6. You are talking about the church that was set on fire the day before and the “protestors,” I understand, had been warned to leave the area repeatedly due to what had happened the previous day. I also read that there were weapons stashes along the “protest” route. The press is so blatantly anti-Trump, it is hard to believe anything they say. The peace agreement in the Mideast is a distraction? Give me a break.
7. You must be talking about Obama here? Eric Holder bragged about being his right-hand man. His IRS targeted conservative groups and hard drives get “accidently” destroyed? What has Barr done that violates the law? I have not seen anything. The blatant lies by people like Adam Schiff, et al, the “hard evidence” that never materialized of Trump wrongdoing, the list is long.
8. This appears to be a media narrative that does not hold water. On the contrary, I think blanket vote by mail is ripe for fraud. Now the dems want to allow votes counted after election day? Tell me how that is a good idea? Every person who votes should have a valid photo ID.
9. On the flip side, how many have been discredited? An inspector general job is to be a whistleblower? Is that in the job description? When there is clear bias against the administration, there is justification for firing. Remember when the Obama justice department spied on James Rosen? Who got fired for that?
10. He is not against science or experts as far as I can tell. Why are scientists with dissenting opinions silenced? Why are health experts that are against lockdowns and have, as far as I can tell, valid arguments (look how well Sweden is doing now with no lockdowns) silenced? How many times have the “experts” been wrong? Read “State of Fear” by Michael Crichton. I think the “experts” have a vested interest in not admitting their mistakes.
11. So Trump is for force hysterectomies at the southern border? Really? If this unproven allegation was true, I’m sure Trump would be against it. If you really think conservatives are for this, all I can do is shake my head.
12. You can stop beating this dead horse. What is happening now?
13. Blatant and obvious attempts to steal the election? You have got to be kidding me. I see no evidence of this. From my position, I see this on the democrat side. Bulk mail-in ballots, ballot harvesting, no voter ID are all attempts to steal the election as far as I’m concerned.
14. Mideast peace agreement? NATO paying more for their own defense? New trade agreements? The “world” can laugh as much as they want. I think Trump has done a lot of good.
15. They want the status quo. Trump is doing things (border wall, move Israel embassy to Jerusalem, etc.) that most long timers in congress have been for in the past but never implemented. Why are they now against those things? You are also ignoring democrats that are coming out for Trump, as well as the apparent higher Trump approval ratings among minorities that any past republican president I’m aware of.
16. On the contrary, I’m currently listening to a podcast on the history of WWII. I see more parallels with democrat authoritarianism than Trump. Mandate masks, “free” services not in the constitution, rewriting American history as all based on racism, gun control/confiscation. The appalling treatment of Kavanaugh by Kamala Harris based on ZERO credible evidence is right out of a Hitler playbook.
With the exception of too much spending, I agree with just about everything Trump as done. I’m for conservative supreme court justices, I think he has done fine on the covid response, getting rid of stupid regulations, improved border security, dumping the climate accord that pretty much had no solution that would have a measurable impact on climate but cost a fortune. I could go on. Trump is brash, but I think the democrats were really stupid not trying to work with him. He is a deal maker and I think, even now, he would probably compromise on things in a way that I would not like. The fact that the democrat party has gone so far left, I can’t imagine voting for any democrat at this point.


2020-09-20 7:24 PM
in reply to: nickster

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
Nickster ....I give you all the credit in the world for spending the time making that post. I just don't care anymore what liberals and others think of President Trump....I quit near the 1st week after he was elected. The non-stop attacks and BS from liberals, never Trumpers, and the media is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in my lifetime. Why would I ever discuss anything with them? It's much easier to just tell them no to anything/everything they want. Like you, I will never vote for a democrat or support a liberal policy for the rest of my life.
2020-09-22 7:46 AM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters
A PA suburban mom responds to your question:

As a white suburban mother of three who lives in the suburbs of western Pennsylvania, I am very aware that Donald Trump is not perceived to be popular with women like me. I voted for Trump in 2016, despite being unimpressed with his rhetoric and unpolished nature. Of course I had concerns about his personal ethics, but I decided to take a chance on the impressive people with whom he surrounded himself. Also I wanted to avoid a Hillary Clinton presidency.

Almost four years later, I am basing my decision to vote for Trump based on his performance as President. Although at times his communication style annoys me, I choose instead to focus upon his accomplishments. Under President Trump, I believe that our country is safer, more prosperous, internationally respected and better aligned with my personal values. But my more typical outward, vocal backing for Trump — and indeed most Republicans — has grown understated over the past year. I feel like bold support of this President often results in assumptions, accusations and potential harm.

Law and order are critical to me, as I have watched various Democratic leaders celebrating and endorsing riots and criminal behavior, all while blaming Trump for the chaos. I obviously do not support defunding the police and am greatly concerned over that movement. There is a significant political divide in our nation; sadly, neither party is being effective in unifying us as Americans. But at the very least, Donald Trump is working to maintain and enforce the law for all Americans, while protecting our borders with a fair and legal pathway to citizenship. If I were to tout this view publicly, I would be accused of racism.

Donald Trump’s greatest accomplishment has been the robust growth of the economy. The lower unemployment rate, rapid job creation, and support for small businesses has been extremely impressive. Despite the negative effects of the COVID-19 shutdowns, I have been amazed at the economic recovery that has surprised even his worst critics. My predominantly liberal coworkers and I have personally benefited from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, yet I am unable to mention Trump’s role in the policy without becoming the target of a fiery comeback.

Under President Obama, I believe that America was turning down a harmful road with his lack of support for our military and his pathetic efforts to represent American interests abroad. Donald Trump’s correction of Obama’s flawed foreign policy, renegotiation of trade deals, and recent Middle East peace agreements are nothing short of miraculous and will have a long-lasting positive impact on the world. As a result, the United States is more globally respected than we were four years ago. But I am perceived as selfish and privileged for endorsing an ‘America First’ philosophy that benefits everyone.

Most importantly, I am thankful for Donald Trump’s support of the sanctity of life, with which I strongly align. Being the first sitting President to make a public address at the March for Life was a powerful statement, further enunciated by his actions in preventing the funding of abortions and appointing pro-life Supreme Court Justices who will hopefully be able to advance the right to life cause. But what a disappointment I must be to my so-called ‘feminist’ friends. How dare I, as a woman, oppose ‘choice’!

My personal evaluation of Donald Trump is not based on what he says or how he says it, but by what he does. When he launched his political career, he made it clear that his priority was to work for the American people, not for Washington. The fact that he is so despised by so many career politicians, on both sides of the aisle, demonstrates his obvious effectiveness.

I will not be posting about my support for Donald Trump on my Facebook page, nor will I be placing his campaign sign in my yard. Doing so could make me or my family a target. Might my employer, which has made a public statement in support of Black Lives Matter, be notified about my support for Trump? Stating my position is just not worth the risk, nor is debating my friends, who have become so extreme in their stances that their only defense is to accuse everyone with an opposing viewpoint as racist. I will continue to educate myself with facts, quietly await November 3, then cast my vote for Donald Trump. I doubt I will even slap an ‘I Voted’ sticker on my shirt as I leave the polls this time. I mean, why risk offending people with an expression of my constitutional rights?
2020-09-22 12:21 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

That "silent majority" right there ^^.

2020-09-22 1:21 PM
in reply to: briderdt

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Subject: RE: Serious Q for Trump Supporters

No, no.....the silent majority is just made up.  "The people" have spoken, you know, the woke people....not the people who just go to work and raise their families every day...they are a minority.  LMAO

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