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2022-01-10 9:43 AM

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Master
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Subject: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Hello everyone,

So this time around I inserted some hard efforts during my weekend rides and kept my weekday trainer rides aerobic during the offseason in 2021 (which I started mid to late November). Did an FTP test last week and scored 3.49watts/kg. This will be my baseline for this year and I should theoretically make it this time.

In 2020 and 2021 I've gained 0.58 and 0.35 watts/kg respectively. However I did more strength training in 2021 so that kept my weight up a bit which explains the difference in the 2 power to weight ratios. Anyway, it's gonna be tough but I feel this is the year! Who wants to join me in this sufferfest challenge?


2022-01-20 4:06 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

I dropped about 18W when I got a new bike a year and a half ago. Then another 14 watts due to taking a lot of time off of cycling to get back in running shape following covid last August.  I also am up about 3 lbs in weight so I am sitting at 3.90 W/kg right now.  I am 7 weeks back into cycling since taking several months off and will be doing my 2nd FTP test of the return next week.  We will see how it goes.  My goal is to get back above 4.0 W/kg.  

Note:  even though I lost 18 watts to the new bike position I was still faster on the bike in my races last year than I was with the former bike.  The weight reduction and aero frame must make up for the difference in fit.

 

2022-02-07 9:31 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

I dropped about 18W when I got a new bike a year and a half ago. Then another 14 watts due to taking a lot of time off of cycling to get back in running shape following covid last August.  I also am up about 3 lbs in weight so I am sitting at 3.90 W/kg right now.  I am 7 weeks back into cycling since taking several months off and will be doing my 2nd FTP test of the return next week.  We will see how it goes.  My goal is to get back above 4.0 W/kg.  

Note:  even though I lost 18 watts to the new bike position I was still faster on the bike in my races last year than I was with the former bike.  The weight reduction and aero frame must make up for the difference in fit.

 

I tested this morning.  I was up 12 watts from 8 weeks ago.  I got on the scale after the test and am only about 1-1/2 lbs. up instead of the 3-1/2 lbs up that I was at so my FTP is now back over 4.0 w/kg.  I still am down from my PR though.

2022-02-09 3:41 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Not sure how you are defining aerobic but I would be doing sets at/slightly above FTP on the trainer

2022-02-10 10:24 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

I dropped about 18W when I got a new bike a year and a half ago. Then another 14 watts due to taking a lot of time off of cycling to get back in running shape following covid last August.  I also am up about 3 lbs in weight so I am sitting at 3.90 W/kg right now.  I am 7 weeks back into cycling since taking several months off and will be doing my 2nd FTP test of the return next week.  We will see how it goes.  My goal is to get back above 4.0 W/kg.  

Note:  even though I lost 18 watts to the new bike position I was still faster on the bike in my races last year than I was with the former bike.  The weight reduction and aero frame must make up for the difference in fit.

 

I tested this morning.  I was up 12 watts from 8 weeks ago.  I got on the scale after the test and am only about 1-1/2 lbs. up instead of the 3-1/2 lbs up that I was at so my FTP is now back over 4.0 w/kg.  I still am down from my PR though.



Nice gains! I'm testing next week. Let's see how I do.
2022-02-10 10:26 AM
in reply to: running2far

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by running2far

Not sure how you are defining aerobic but I would be doing sets at/slightly above FTP on the trainer



Yup, after next week's tests I have a block of over/unders in store for me.


2022-02-10 3:16 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

kloofyroland, 

What test do you use for FTP? 

I did the ramp test when I started cycling again two and a half months ago.  Then after I had brushed off some of the rust I started a FTP build plan that is based on a 2-min/12-min test.  I did the 2/min/12-min test because I figured that the results would vary several watts from each other and I wanted to make sure I was following what the plan was based on.  I got just 1-watt difference between the two tests which was surprising.  Since then I have heard others say that the ramp test tends to test higher than some of the other tests. 

So...I am curious what test everyone is doing.

2022-02-11 8:53 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Middle River, Maryland
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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

In general, I don't do a lot of testing because I find the variances in results too wide to really provide value. You have testing protocol as Curtis mentioned, how you feel that day, indoor vs. outdoor, adapting to testing etc.

I focus rather on race results on Zwift (i.e. top n-minute power) and how I feel doing prescribed workouts in the VO2 max, threshold, and sweet spot ranges.  Uptick in race results?  Add a couple FTP watts in the apps.  3 x 20' @ 90% felt easy?  Add a couple FTP watts in the apps.  I'll also adjust down a little if I'm off the bike for an extended period of time (say, greater than 3-4 weeks).

Want a real test?  Do a 40K TT and be collapsing at the finish. 

2022-02-11 8:56 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

My current training protocol is a 45-minute VO2 max focused ride (4-5' intervals over 105%) , a 45-minute threshold ride (8'-12' intervals at or around or over-under my FTP), and a 90-minute sweet spot ride (10-25' @ 85-92%).  I'm also swimming a bunch and running a little so I don't really get much more than those three in and if I do they'll be either a sprint session or a recovery ride.

I've settled into this for a few weeks now and the rides are feeling easier so I think it's time to add 2 points. 

2022-02-11 8:59 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by running2far Not sure how you are defining aerobic but I would be doing sets at/slightly above FTP on the trainer
Yup, after next week's tests I have a block of over/unders in store for me.

Those are great workouts.

2022-02-11 7:57 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

kloofyroland, 

What test do you use for FTP? 




I follow this test protocol all the time since 2015:

1. Warmup for 10-15 minutes with 3x0:30 up tempo intervals
2. Jump into a 1x3:00 maxed out effort
3. Rest then 3x1:00/1:00 @ sub threshold
4. 20 minute time trial and finish almost puking
5. Whatever high or low cadence hard intervals and cool down

A total of a little more than an hour on the trainer. I then use Jorge's Plan calculator to determine my FTP and other stats.

Roland


2022-02-11 7:59 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

My current training protocol is a 45-minute VO2 max focused ride (4-5' intervals over 105%) , a 45-minute threshold ride (8'-12' intervals at or around or over-under my FTP), and a 90-minute sweet spot ride (10-25' @ 85-92%). 


I like these workouts!

Roland
2022-02-14 9:59 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

kloofyroland, 

What test do you use for FTP? 

I follow this test protocol all the time since 2015: 1. Warmup for 10-15 minutes with 3x0:30 up tempo intervals 2. Jump into a 1x3:00 maxed out effort 3. Rest then 3x1:00/1:00 @ sub threshold 4. 20 minute time trial and finish almost puking 5. Whatever high or low cadence hard intervals and cool down A total of a little more than an hour on the trainer. I then use Jorge's Plan calculator to determine my FTP and other stats. Roland

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

 

 

2022-02-14 10:12 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

In general, I don't do a lot of testing because I find the variances in results too wide to really provide value. You have testing protocol as Curtis mentioned, how you feel that day, indoor vs. outdoor, adapting to testing etc.

I focus rather on race results on Zwift (i.e. top n-minute power) and how I feel doing prescribed workouts in the VO2 max, threshold, and sweet spot ranges.  Uptick in race results?  Add a couple FTP watts in the apps.  3 x 20' @ 90% felt easy?  Add a couple FTP watts in the apps.  I'll also adjust down a little if I'm off the bike for an extended period of time (say, greater than 3-4 weeks).

Want a real test?  Do a 40K TT and be collapsing at the finish. 

I don't test every 6-weeks as some people do, but I get my fair share of testing  I test 3-5 times a year. 

If I were doing 40K TT's for my tests I might test a lot less than what I already am.   I have only actually every done one (1) 40K TT with power data.  I can't do them in TrainerRoads because that ap is time-based and you don't see your distance so there isn't a good way to know when to stop your TT or even to measure the time for the 40K.  I used the Rovey App when they had their two-week freed trial in the spring of 2020 as their covid training gift.  I did 20K and 40K TT during those two weeks.  They were pretty fun. 

2022-02-15 9:14 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Middle River, Maryland
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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

kloofyroland, 

What test do you use for FTP? 

I follow this test protocol all the time since 2015: 1. Warmup for 10-15 minutes with 3x0:30 up tempo intervals 2. Jump into a 1x3:00 maxed out effort 3. Rest then 3x1:00/1:00 @ sub threshold 4. 20 minute time trial and finish almost puking 5. Whatever high or low cadence hard intervals and cool down A total of a little more than an hour on the trainer. I then use Jorge's Plan calculator to determine my FTP and other stats. Roland

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

I think I might try a ramp test - they're not as hard and are pretty close to estimating, plus you don't need practice for pacing...you just go to failure.

Do you warm up before the ramp test starts or just use the ramp to do that?  I'm a slow warmer-upper so I might do my pre-race WU routine beforehand but wondering if that screws up the protocol.

2022-02-15 9:17 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

I got in a 5 x 10' @ 90% over the weekend in a 90 minute workout...first three were pretty easy and the 4th needed some mental toughness, while the 5th felt great because mentally you're done.  Today was brutal 2 x (2 x 2' @120%, 2' RBI) with an additional 2' RBS.  I don't usually train much at 120% so haven't really adapted to that effort level. 



2022-02-16 12:26 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

 

 



Finished the test today and I gained 3 watts above my previous FTP. This is with sweet spot training during the week and a long ride with some mixed hard efforts during it on weekends. I have an incoming block of over/unders. Will see how much that bumps up my next FTP test.

Roland
2022-02-16 3:01 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

 

 

Finished the test today and I gained 3 watts above my previous FTP. This is with sweet spot training during the week and a long ride with some mixed hard efforts during it on weekends. I have an incoming block of over/unders. Will see how much that bumps up my next FTP test. Roland

Nice work - continued progress!

2022-02-17 2:35 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

kloofyroland, 

What test do you use for FTP? 

I follow this test protocol all the time since 2015: 1. Warmup for 10-15 minutes with 3x0:30 up tempo intervals 2. Jump into a 1x3:00 maxed out effort 3. Rest then 3x1:00/1:00 @ sub threshold 4. 20 minute time trial and finish almost puking 5. Whatever high or low cadence hard intervals and cool down A total of a little more than an hour on the trainer. I then use Jorge's Plan calculator to determine my FTP and other stats. Roland

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

I think I might try a ramp test - they're not as hard and are pretty close to estimating, plus you don't need practice for pacing...you just go to failure.

Do you warm up before the ramp test starts or just use the ramp to do that?  I'm a slow warmer-upper so I might do my pre-race WU routine beforehand but wondering if that screws up the protocol.

 

No! no warm-up for the ramp test.   Ya the reason that TrainRoads went to the ramp test as their standard protocol is that there is no learning curve to the pacing so new riders can do it right away.  They used to do a 5min test for first-time riders then do the 20-minute test after that.  Now everyone just does the ramp test on all the training plans in TrainerRoads.  It increases the watts at increments and you go untill you can go any more.  Then your FTP is 75% of the highest step that you were able to reach.

2022-02-17 2:37 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

 

 

Finished the test today and I gained 3 watts above my previous FTP. This is with sweet spot training during the week and a long ride with some mixed hard efforts during it on weekends. I have an incoming block of over/unders. Will see how much that bumps up my next FTP test. Roland

NICE!

2022-02-18 10:53 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Now everyone just does the ramp test on all the training plans in TrainerRoads.  It increases the watts at increments and you go untill you can go any more.  Then your FTP is 75% of the highest step that you were able to reach.



What's the ramp test duration? Do you start hard then build every minute or something? I think saw an 8' ramp test once on their site.

Roland


2022-02-18 10:57 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Ah...the 20-minute FTP Test.  Yes I have done that one several times  That used to be the standard FTP test before the Ramp Test replaced it as the standard test on TrainerRoads. 

 

 

Finished the test today and I gained 3 watts above my previous FTP. This is with sweet spot training during the week and a long ride with some mixed hard efforts during it on weekends. I have an incoming block of over/unders. Will see how much that bumps up my next FTP test. Roland

NICE!



Thanks guys. I'm now sitting on 3.52watts/kg seeing my weight management is a bit off. I'm not sure if that's muscle or fat that's staying on me, hehe. Maybe I can shave off a few pounds to get that power stat up faster.

Roland
2022-02-18 11:49 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26 Now everyone just does the ramp test on all the training plans in TrainerRoads.  It increases the watts at increments and you go untill you can go any more.  Then your FTP is 75% of the highest step that you were able to reach.
What's the ramp test duration? Do you start hard then build every minute or something? I think saw an 8' ramp test once on their site. Roland

Well, it depends on how long you last. 

The painful part is only like 4-6 minutes once you hit sweet spot.  You ramp up 6% of FTP every minute starting at 46%, until you quit.  As Curtis said your estimated FTP is 75% of where you collapse.

 

 

 

 

2022-02-18 4:12 PM
in reply to: 0

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1410
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!

For the ramp test you start by ridding at 45-50% of your current FTP.  Then you increase by 6% of your current FTP every minute.  If your current FTP is 200W it would look like this.

5'@100W, 1'@112W, 1'@124W, 1'@136W, 1'@148W, 1'@160W, 1'@172W, 1'@184W, 1'@196W, 1'@208W, 1'@220W, 1'@232W, 1'@244W, 1'@W, 1'@256W, 1'@268W, 1'@280W, 1'@292W, 1'@304W, etc.  

The whole test only takes about 20 minutes and it only is hard for the last 3-5 minutes. 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2022-02-18 4:14 PM
2022-02-22 5:46 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
2733
200050010010025
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Still chasing 4.0watts/kg argh!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

For the ramp test you start by ridding at 45-50% of your current FTP.  Then you increase by 6% of your current FTP every minute.  If your current FTP is 200W it would look like this.

5'@100W, 1'@112W, 1'@124W, 1'@136W, 1'@148W, 1'@160W, 1'@172W, 1'@184W, 1'@196W, 1'@208W, 1'@220W, 1'@232W, 1'@244W, 1'@W, 1'@256W, 1'@268W, 1'@280W, 1'@292W, 1'@304W, etc.  

The whole test only takes about 20 minutes and it only is hard for the last 3-5 minutes. 



Ahh okay, sounds like torture but I'll try it one day and see if it compares to the current protocol I'm using. Thanks guys!
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Chasing 4.0watts/kg quest continues 2021

Started by kloofyroland
Views: 591 Posts: 3

2022-01-10 9:33 AM kloofyroland