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2023-02-08 5:15 PM

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Master
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Subject: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Greetings everyone! I'm still on this quest to obtain this power spec for myself. If anyone wants to get faster on the bike, they generally need to have more power output from their legs and one of the best tools used to increasing their bike performance is using a power meter. You can also do it by using heart rate though.

Those who wanna join the chase with me are welcome to but those who want to learn how to get faster on the bike are free to join as well. I'm more than happy to share my knowledge with you.

My current watts/kg: 3.63 watts/kg
Current FTP: 240 watts

Roland


2023-05-19 1:28 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

What bike training are you doing? 

My first bike training program was Jorge's 16 week Winter Cycling with Heart Rate plan available free in the BT Training Plans.  I did it in the summer starting after my A race in the spring and did it all outdoors because I didn't have a bike trainer or a power meter.  I still don't have the power meter, but my $25 bike speed/cadence sensors get me virtual power on my dumb trainer that I ride before work on weekdays. 

I lead a 12 week Winter Cycling Power Group for my Triathlon team from January to April of this year.  I did my A race running event the middle of April and then my B race Cycling event the end of April.  I am now on a break for another week.  then I will start my 18-week training for my fall triathlon.  I am not sure what I want to do on the bike for the next 19-1/2 weeks, but have 1-1/2 weeks to decide on a plan.  Any ideas? 

I have a half dozen plans I have used in the past.  I could go back to one of them but have done them all multiple times and kind of wanting to do something new this time.  

 

2023-05-19 1:58 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

What bike training are you doing? 

My first bike training program was Jorge's 16 week Winter Cycling with Heart Rate plan available free in the BT Training Plans.  I did it in the summer starting after my A race in the spring and did it all outdoors because I didn't have a bike trainer or a power meter.  I still don't have the power meter, but my $25 bike speed/cadence sensors get me virtual power on my dumb trainer that I ride before work on weekdays. 

I lead a 12 week Winter Cycling Power Group for my Triathlon team from January to April of this year.  I did my A race running event the middle of April and then my B race Cycling event the end of April.  I am now on a break for another week.  then I will start my 18-week training for my fall triathlon.  I am not sure what I want to do on the bike for the next 19-1/2 weeks, but have 1-1/2 weeks to decide on a plan.  Any ideas? 

I have a half dozen plans I have used in the past.  I could go back to one of them but have done them all multiple times and kind of wanting to do something new this time.  

 

That plan is no joke.  There are a few of his on Trainer Road as well but they're kind of buried and you have to search for them by name (Crag, Palmer are a couple).  That 6 x 4' @ 105% with only 45" recoveries is the hardest bike workout I've ever done short of a race.

2023-05-20 6:52 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

What bike training are you doing? 



I use a plan saved from Trainer Road. Just like you I use VP. You can look at my training log for the past 16 weeks to see how it builds up. It's pretty rough during the 2nd half and I've gotten some pretty good results using it. I've used Jorge's Plan too and have gotten nice power gains from that as well. The plan I'm using right now though is a bit more nasty than Jorge's plan and I'm looking forward to taking a couple weeks off of it after my FTP tests next week. I do plan on getting back on it after my upcoming late July short triathlon where I'm aiming to PR (at least on the bike, hehe).

Roland
2023-05-20 6:56 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

That plan is no joke.  There are a few of his on Trainer Road as well but they're kind of buried and you have to search for them by name (Crag, Palmer are a couple).  That 6 x 4' @ 105% with only 45" recoveries is the hardest bike workout I've ever done short of a race.




Yeah man, what about doing 6x3' @ 120-125%FTP with 4' rest? 4' rest sounds like enough but after doing the first 3, yuck! Now that's NASTY, hehehe!

Roland
2023-05-20 9:14 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

That plan is no joke.  There are a few of his on Trainer Road as well but they're kind of buried and you have to search for them by name (Crag, Palmer are a couple).  That 6 x 4' @ 105% with only 45" recoveries is the hardest bike workout I've ever done short of a race.

Crag and Palmer look good.  It might just be that the warm-up is not ramp or a stair step.  I have been doing the same workouts over and over again and anything that looks different is inviting.  

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

What bike training are you doing? 

I use a plan saved from Trainer Road. Just like you I use VP. You can look at my training log for the past 16 weeks to see how it builds up. It's pretty rough during the 2nd half and I've gotten some pretty good results using it. I've used Jorge's Plan too and have gotten nice power gains from that as well. The plan I'm using right now though is a bit more nasty than Jorge's plan and I'm looking forward to taking a couple weeks off of it after my FTP tests next week. I do plan on getting back on it after my upcoming late July short triathlon where I'm aiming to PR (at least on the bike, hehe). Roland

The last time I remember really struggling with bike workouts was 3-4 years ago when I was doing VO2_max intervals.  I had about 2-3 weeks at the end of a training block where I had to drop out of the VO2_max stuff and couldn't finish.  

Nasty sounds good to me.  I have done a lot of slow stuff this year.  My 13-year-old daughter did her first 50-mile charity ride in April and so all of my long rides for 10 weeks leading up to that were done with her.  I need to convert those long slow rides into super threshold capacity if I am going to have a successful Sprint Triathlon race in September.  I will check out your 16-week training block.  If it looks better than the generic Trainer Roads Medium Volume Build Sprint, Medium Volume Build Olympic, and race Specific Sprint blocks, then I am going to follow your plan.  I am ready to get after it.  I don't think I am at 4.0 w/kg anymore.  I have some low hanging fruit though so I will see where I can get to this summer. 



2023-05-20 9:59 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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1508
1000500
Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by kloofyroland

That plan is no joke.  There are a few of his on Trainer Road as well but they're kind of buried and you have to search for them by name (Crag, Palmer are a couple).  That 6 x 4' @ 105% with only 45" recoveries is the hardest bike workout I've ever done short of a race.

Yeah man, what about doing 6x3' @ 120-125%FTP with 4' rest? 4' rest sounds like enough but after doing the first 3, yuck! Now that's NASTY, hehehe! Roland

With the exception of Cloud Peak and Breccia I think I have done every named TR workout in your 16-week plan multiple times.  I might be burned out on those workouts. :-)  I have been a 3-day a week rider for years.  I think doing four days every other week might be a good thing for me.  I am still seeing faster times are every race, but my FTP had plateaued for the past few years.  The Train Road forum says that I might need to increase my training density (i.e. number of training days a week) to improve.  Hmm? decisions.  

2023-05-21 12:14 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

my FTP had plateaued for the past few years.  The Train Road forum says that I might need to increase my training density (i.e. number of training days a week) to improve.  Hmm? decisions.  




Ahh, so you're familiar with what I've been doing with TR. Cool! You're right about those VO2Max workouts... so damn daunting once you get into them. I remember having a chat with a pro cyclist years ago and he said one of the ways to become a better and stronger cyclist is to bike everyday. O_O I don't remember the details of how to manage that though.

Have you tried incorporating some strength training days to increase leg and core strength? I've been lacking on my core ST lately but I feel the leg ST I've been doing is helping me increase my power output and sustaining it while keeping me injury free.

Roland
2023-05-21 4:54 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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1508
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26 my FTP had plateaued for the past few years.  The Train Road forum says that I might need to increase my training density (i.e. number of training days a week) to improve.  Hmm? decisions.  
Ahh, so you're familiar with what I've been doing with TR. Cool! You're right about those VO2Max workouts... so damn daunting once you get into them. I remember having a chat with a pro cyclist years ago and he said one of the ways to become a better and stronger cyclist is to bike everyday. O_O I don't remember the details of how to manage that though. Have you tried incorporating some strength training days to increase leg and core strength? I've been lacking on my core ST lately but I feel the leg ST I've been doing is helping me increase my power output and sustaining it while keeping me injury free. Roland

I have never been consistent with weight training.  The last time I looked at starting a weight training program my research indicated that running hills has about the same benefits to increasing leg and core strength as lifting weights.  It was a 15 minute drive tot he gym and I had the best running hills in the area right out my front door so to make the best use of my time I opted to run hills 3-4 times a week and not lift weights.  I moved two years ago and there are zero hills where I am at now, so I am not sure how that is working out for me. I like Mark Allen's 30 minute 2 days a week weights plan.  If I were to do weights that is where I would start.  Like I said, there is a lot of low hanging fruit.   Weights an hour a week might be bigger gains that adding another hour workout on the bike.

2023-05-22 2:06 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Weights an hour a week might be bigger gains that adding another hour workout on the bike.




I can certainly say doing weights has benefits not only in our sport but outside of it as well. I hired Mark as my coach in 2019 and had my best Ironman performance ever through his guidance.

Roland
2023-05-22 3:01 PM
in reply to: 0

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1508
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by kloofyroland
Originally posted by BlueBoy26 Weights an hour a week might be bigger gains that adding another hour workout on the bike.
I can certainly say doing weights has benefits not only in our sport but outside of it as well. I hired Mark as my coach in 2019 and had my best Ironman performance ever through his guidance. Roland

You had the GOAT for your coach?  That is pretty cool. 

I have a feeling your training is a lot more refined that mine is.  I have defiantly got a lot of help along the way (i.e. @JorgeM, @k9car363, @marcag, Coach Chad at TainerRoads, TriDot, etc), but haven't had a coach since 2018.



Edited by BlueBoy26 2023-05-22 3:02 PM


2023-05-23 11:43 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

RE:  training density / number of rides a week.  Every single coach I've talked to indicates a huge benefit to riding six, even seven days a week.  Of course as a three-sport athlete (and maybe four if you're including strength/core work) that's going to create a limiter somewhere else, but that's where the real gains come.  Obviously there will be some easy days sprinkled in (look at the Trainer Road high-volume plans...at least two easy days a week and I mean EASY like under 0.6 IFs).

2023-05-23 1:42 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

some easy days sprinkled in (look at the Trainer Road high-volume plans...at least two easy days a week and I mean EASY like under 0.6 IFs).



I always look forward to those 0.6IF days after their nasty pVO2Max and threshold workouts though I only do 1 of those in between and do some ST after some short easy paced runs on other days.

Roland

Edited by kloofyroland 2023-05-23 1:53 PM
2023-05-23 1:46 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Nailed phase 1 of my FTP tests today! Phase 2 to smooth out the curve will happen this Friday and if all goes well I'm gonna be at around 3.80watts/kg or better! Woohoo!

I have a feeling of the extra weight I've added lately to my deadlifts and staying consistent with the other ST has helped.

Roland
2023-05-23 7:11 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Nice work, Roland...getting there!!

2023-05-24 10:15 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023


2023-06-26 3:26 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

I have been afraid to do a FTP test since I haven't spent much time on the bike this year.  I skipped my last two FTP days but went ahead and did the ramp test today.  I beat my last FTP from 6 months ago by 8% to get me back over 4.0 W/kg for the first time since April of 2020.  I was expecting to test at about 3.8-3.9 W/kg and to then spend all summer working to get over 4.0 W/kg again.  I still feel like I have some gains I can make through.  My last outdoor ride was pretty sluggish compare to what I was doing this time last year.  I guess the next step is training that FTP so I can use it.           

2023-06-27 12:53 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

I beat my last FTP from 6 months ago by 8% to get me back over 4.0 W/kg for the first time since April of 2020.   




Nice! After my upcoming July race I'm hopping back onto the chase! Hopefully I'll be where you're at right now by the end of year.

Roland
2023-07-20 9:12 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

I'm in the midst of a big cycling block during my Olympic build for a race in August.  It's my own personal Tour de France challenge and I ride every day they do - a mix of outdoors, spin classes, and on Zwift.  I'm at 415 miles so far for the "tour" and did the Bologna time trial route yesterday which is basically a 20-minute plus time trial.  Finished in 21:36 @ 273 W for 89 kg so I'm around 3.1 W/kg.  I'm in a pretty fatigued state right now so I'm guessing that's in the ballpark for my FTP right now.  Once I do my Oly and recover a few days I'll do a proper test.

Slow progress but getting there!!

2023-07-21 12:51 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Finished in 21:36 @ 273 W for 89 kg so I'm around 3.1 W/kg.  I'm in a pretty fatigued state right now so I'm guessing that's in the ballpark for my FTP right now.  Once I do my Oly and recover a few days I'll do a proper test.

Slow progress but getting there!!




I'm sure your test results will be much better in August. My short course triathlon is coming up in a couple weekends and I'm aiming to PR but that might be hard because I'm older, hehehe. If anything maybe I'll PR on the bike since I've been putting most of my focus on that. We shall see!

Roland
2023-08-09 12:40 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Welp! Didn't quite PR at my triathlon last weekend but my bike speed was the same as last year's while outputting on average almost 3-5% less power. I thought that would have enabled me to run better but nope, for some odd reason I had cramps during the entire first mile despite going slightly easier on the bike AND drinking an entire bottle of Infinit.

Anyway, back on the chase! Trainer Road Weeks 18-30 here we go!

Roland


2023-08-09 1:54 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by kloofyroland Welp! Didn't quite PR at my triathlon last weekend but my bike speed was the same as last year's while outputting on average almost 3-5% less power. I thought that would have enabled me to run better but nope, for some odd reason I had cramps during the entire first mile despite going slightly easier on the bike AND drinking an entire bottle of Infinit. Anyway, back on the chase! Trainer Road Weeks 18-30 here we go! Roland

Ha ha...me either.  Like worst race ever for me.  Only average around 190 watts for the 23 miles which was about 25+ watts under target and I still had a disaster of a run.  I'm doing a shorter race in October so we'll see. 

2023-08-09 4:03 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Ha ha...me either.  Like worst race ever for me.  Only average around 190 watts for the 23 miles which was about 25+ watts under target and I still had a disaster of a run. 



Oh dannnnnnnnnnng. We both blew it eh? hehehe. I'm tempted to do another short course triathlon before the year is over but then I really wanna hit 4.0 watts/kg first.

Roland
2023-09-01 1:26 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Master
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023
Test week complete! Pretty much kept my fitness since last test in May. Lost maybe around 3 watts on my FTP and a tiny bit of my power to weight ratio. I'm diving into some pain cave Trainer Road training blocks now and all the way through December. I have a good feeling I'm gonna make it if I stay consistent with the workouts and strength training (and weight management too ofc, hehe).

Current power to weight ratio = 3.78watts/kg
2023-09-05 11:07 AM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: Chasing 4.0watts/kg 2023

Originally posted by kloofyroland Test week complete! Pretty much kept my fitness since last test in May. Lost maybe around 3 watts on my FTP and a tiny bit of my power to weight ratio. I'm diving into some pain cave Trainer Road training blocks now and all the way through December. I have a good feeling I'm gonna make it if I stay consistent with the workouts and strength training (and weight management too ofc, hehe). Current power to weight ratio = 3.78watts/kg

Stupid denominators in math. 

Good luck on your training block.  I'm run-focusing a bit right now leading up to a sprint in about four weeks.  My next focused training for the bike will spin up in November but I'm going to put some suffering into it for sure to wrap up the year.

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