General Discussion Triathlon Talk » pelvic tilt and aero position Rss Feed  
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2007-01-15 8:51 AM

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: pelvic tilt and aero position
when you are in aero on a tri bike, and the fit is correct, how is your pelvis resting on the saddle? sit bones? or pubic bone?


2007-01-15 8:55 AM
in reply to: #654652

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Elite
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
No answer for you Autumn, but I am looking forward to others. You must have tried out your new Cervelo and that question came up. For what it is worth, I have been riding my bike in the trainer for a couple of weeks now and it feels like I am resting more on the pelvic bone.
2007-01-15 9:17 AM
in reply to: #654660

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
Because of your body position when in the aero bars I am pretty sure it is physically impossible not to be on your pelvic bone.  But I've been wrong before ....... :shrugs:
2007-01-15 10:07 AM
in reply to: #654652

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Champion
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
Well, when I was getting fit, I was tilting my pelvis forward so my back was flat when I was in aero position.

The fitting guru (???) told me that was WRONG! I needed to keep from tilting my pelvis forward and I needed to round my back to get into areo position. He said it required core strength and would take some time to get use to it.

When I am riding, I just do what feels right... even though it might not be perfect form.


2007-01-15 10:25 AM
in reply to: #654787


15

Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
Tilting your pelvis forward produces the optimal position for aerodynamics, power production, and pedaling efficiency.

A flat back disrupts the air far less than a rounded back and allows the air to reconnect more smoothly behind the rider.

The forward tilt of the pelvis positions the glutes - the biggest and strongest muscles in the body - to extend the hip powerfully during the downstroke. This means greater speed, less work that the quadricps have to do, and greater pedaling efficiency.

Look at a picture of a pro cyclist, especially a good time trialist, and you'll see the pelvis tilted forward to provide a flat back.

Ken
2007-01-15 10:38 AM
in reply to: #654829

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Pro
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position

I'm having issues with tilting my pelvis forward for more than 15-20 minutes at a time due to pressure issues with the seat (numbness).  As a result I'm having hip issues that require visits to the chiro.  I'm going to get the ISM seat, the LBS has a demo seat they let people try, so far they say the order rate is 100%!



2007-01-15 10:48 AM
in reply to: #654652

Master
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
You should tilt your pelvis forward.

KSH, the person who fit you is wrong. Rolling your back puts unwanted pressure on your disks and could result in long term issues.

scott
2007-01-15 11:56 AM
in reply to: #654652

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
My bike seat, a Specialized Alias, has two raised bumps that my sit bones ride on. As I roll forward to get down, I have to shift back on the seat a bit to carry weight on the raised bumps. The fitter checked my sit bone width and changed my saddle to fit me. Those bones get closer together as you roll forward so your flexibility affects the width too.

Edit: The saddle is also tilted up very slightly towards the front so there is still some pressure there but not much. The tilt helps me sit with less weight on my hands, wrists, and arms. However, there's no tilt needed when I'm in the aerobars.


Edited by Micawber 2007-01-15 12:08 PM
2007-01-15 12:10 PM
in reply to: #654862

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
wow, that's a wacky looking saddle...but if cut outs help for road riding, i can see how that type of cut out would help for aero.

i am using the terry butterfly tri saddle and it was comfortable when i was on my road bike in aero. want to make sure i have everything set up right for riding on the new tri bike, where the whole aero set up is more easily fine tuned than on the road bike.
2007-01-15 12:56 PM
in reply to: #654652

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
I found the ISM isn't wide enough for most women's sit bones (don't worry, I complained to the company). Putting pressure on the pelvic area for women is very tough and painful.
2007-01-15 1:33 PM
in reply to: #654652

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
I'm glad to see some discussion about this.  I am just barely comfortable on my road bike, but in aero, the pain on the girly parts is pretty much unbearable.  I'm hoping that my new tri bike (when it arrives) will help, and that perhaps there will be a saddle that helps, but I think body position must play a big part.  I'd rather be less aero and more comfortable and able to ride longer.  But that's just me.


2007-01-15 2:06 PM
in reply to: #655140

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position

writers2 - 2007-01-15 1:56 PM I found the ISM isn't wide enough for most women's sit bones (don't worry, I complained to the company). Putting pressure on the pelvic area for women is very tough and painful.

I read that the women's ISM is currently being developed.



Edited by DRM 2007-01-15 2:06 PM
2007-01-15 2:09 PM
in reply to: #655188

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position

element - 2007-01-15 2:33 PM I'm glad to see some discussion about this.  I am just barely comfortable on my road bike, but in aero, the pain on the girly parts is pretty much unbearable.  I'm hoping that my new tri bike (when it arrives) will help, and that perhaps there will be a saddle that helps, but I think body position must play a big part.  I'd rather be less aero and more comfortable and able to ride longer.  But that's just me.

Not sure how a man's point of view applies, but my numbness issues got worst on the Tri-bike aero position than with the RB aero position. I'm a lot lower on the TB than on the RB.  That said, the Tri-bike aero position is more comfy when I can be in it!

2007-01-15 2:17 PM
in reply to: #654652

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
What about seat tilt with all of this. I'm new to this, is the seat supposed to be parallel to the ground, or should there be a slightly forward tilt to it? I would think to get and stay in aero position a forward tilt would help.
TJ
2007-01-15 2:28 PM
in reply to: #655259

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position

As a former mechanic, bike salesmen and Cat. 3 roadie who has fit hundreds of people on bikes the biggest problem I constantly saw was a seat tilted below level ..........

In my worthless opinion you should never have the seat below level and in reality it should be just slightly above level.  The reasoning is that you will "fall" forward putting more stress and strain on your upper body which leads to fatigue in your back/shoulders/neck/arms.  Your upper body will be fighting to maintain the position on the saddle instead of letting gravity and the seat do it.

2007-01-15 2:45 PM
in reply to: #655277

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
Daremo - 2007-01-15 12:28 PM

you will "fall" forward putting more stress and strain on your upper body which leads to fatigue in your back/shoulders/neck/arms.  Your upper body will be fighting to maintain the position on the saddle instead of letting gravity and the seat do it.

After 2 professional bike fits and 4 saddles, this is finally what I had to do -- tilt the saddle forward a bit to alleviate the horrible soft tissue pain.  BUT, it's exactly like you said -- it is SO hard on my upper body to sit like that for long periods of time.  I still don't know what the problem is -- the bike, the fit, or the saddle itself.



2007-01-15 3:08 PM
in reply to: #655277

Master
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
I agree, Daremo. I don't know how people ride with there seat tilted down. A better option is to offset it from center (Left or right) by ~ half the width of the top tube. This small adjustment can often take pressure off the perineum.

Another note on pelvic tilt. You should have your pelvis tilted forward regardless of the bike (tri or road). The pressure point changes on a tri bike due to the rotation over the bottom bracket, but hip angle should stay the same unless you're getting very agressive in your aero set-up.

If someone is having trouble with the pelvic tilt, open the hip angle up some and work on hamstring flexibility.

scott
2007-01-15 5:10 PM
in reply to: #654652

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
Tilted forward? It sounds from the description and pictures of good cyclists (not me) that the pelvis is actually more upright. By tilting forward do you mean tilting the bottom of the pelvis (pubis symphasis) forward? Kind of tucking your butt?
2007-01-15 5:29 PM
in reply to: #654652

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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
I think a lot of people are going too aggressive with their tri bikes. You see them all the time seat real high and bars real low seems they can only ride for so long in this position then they are up on the cowhorns for a while and repeat.
Try raising the bars some or put some pads on the armrests if you can't raise the bars to see how that feels. Make sure the saddle is forward no road geometry and in this position you should feel more upright instead of hunched over and laying on the tip of the saddle not smart or comfy. Also I went to a specialized saddle 155mm and that supports my sit bones finally. I run the saddle 1 deg nose down. It is hard to get a wide saddle but look for it. Why riders want these narrow saddles is beyond me.
These are things I have tried and have worked for me I may sit higher than most but the small amount I give up in aero I make up for in staying in that position for the duration of the ride. Goodluck and don't be afraid to try different setups to see what works for you just because you have been fitted don't think you are done that is just the beginning.
2007-01-15 5:56 PM
in reply to: #655510

Master
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
>>By tilting forward do you mean tilting the bottom of the pelvis (pubis symphasis) forward? Kind of tucking your butt?

No. You want the pivot point to be the bottom of the pelvis, not the top of the pelvis (waist).

If you tuck the bottom of the pelvis, it will cuase you to bend at the waist to reach the handle bars. This will compress the disks of the lower back.

scott
2007-01-15 7:15 PM
in reply to: #654652

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Champion
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position

Autumn,

Lots of good information already. I roll my hips and I can feel my lower back flatten. I  sometimes, sorry no way to put this delicately, rip/remove skin from my privates while doing long rides....and it is just bad luck or not using enough chamois butt'er & body glide or it could be not rolling hips enough....but it is quite unpleasant.

In 2005 I rode with the Terry Butterfly Tri saddle on a road bike w/aerobars, this year when test riding tri bikes most came with smaller harder saddles which I liked. So when I ordered my tri bike I opted for Terry's racing saddle Zero X with the same cut out and wider seat for women's sitz bones since it came with a 30 day money back return policy.  I like it so much better. I think it takes time but your bum gets used to riding more and more and the harder saddles are really more comfortable...less stuff that gets between you and your saddle is better. You have ridden a lot and I wonder if a harder saddle may be the key for you.

Other key I'm not sure if it has been mentioned is bike fit. I have a bike fit guy who has done over 5K bike fits and used to design bikes with Seven when working with customers to fit their custom bike. I think bike fit helps fix lots of bum/saddle issues. Hardest thing to know is who really fits a bike well. Everyone says they do it, but how good are they? I had mine fit 3 times and now only go to Roy as he fits my bikes so I'm pain free and I had back surgery 10 years ago.



2007-01-15 9:46 PM
in reply to: #655527

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
jrm - 2007-01-15 5:29 PM
Why riders want these narrow saddles is beyond me.


i think what you meant to say is this "why riders want these narrow a$$ hatchets is beyond me." edit over
2007-01-15 9:56 PM
in reply to: #654652

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position
thanks for all the fantastic feedback. i will try a few of the suggestions and see if it helps make things more comfortable. the bike feels pretty good already, but i guess i'm hoping for the same level of comfort i have on my road bike, when that probably isn't a realistic expectation. here is an article i've looked at before, and from which bill was getting ideas for how to judge my fit (and yes, i should get fit at the shop, but i'm trying the 'don't do this at home' method at home first ).



based on this picture...i think i'm in a position where C feels okay, but i feel like i should be doing B, based on getting onto my sit bones. maybe i need to just get used to C and toughen up the front of my pelvis in the same way i toughen up my sit bone area from road riding?
2007-01-16 7:24 AM
in reply to: #655188

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Wife, Mother, Friend.
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Subject: RE: pelvic tilt and aero position

It has taken me a bunch of rides and two fittings to get me comfy on my tri bike after being on a road bike for 3 years.  I got a new saddle Terry Gellismo (?).   I need a new pair of shoes and I'll be in bike heaven.

At first, I HATED the thing.  Really.  I just had to get used to it, I could feel different muscles being used for some reason.  My thighs have never been so sore.  My cootchie feels a lot better though, but I think it's the new seat

http://www.floridabicyclesports.com/systemone.htm

the above link is a picture that describes Autumn's original question.  

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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » pelvic tilt and aero position Rss Feed