Educate me, Re: Transgender child in CO

Mod note: This will be the most closely modded thread in the history of history. 

Snide, flippant, crass, or reactive comments won't work in this one. We've already got a couple comments where someone posted something volatile without explaining why.

Even sarcasm is walking the line. Keep it aboveboard, please. 

I'm out.

On what grounds? They know their child better than you know her. 

I don't see how this comment is respectful or helpful to the conversation.  

Many years ago, there were a pair of twin boys who became the subject of intense interest for this areas when one of them developed an infection following circumcision and had a sex change operation due to the extensive problems. "She" was raised as a female twin, and for many years, the mental literature noted that gender identity rested with how you were raised, citing this case. When "she" got older, she self-identified as male, and despite never knowing the truth, reported always being uncomfortable as a girl. The current belief is that gender identity seems to rest somewhere in the brain, not in the genitalia or the way one is raised.

So, this is a long way to say that, while rare, it is not inconceivable that a biologically male child would, at 6, have self-identified as female for as long as 3-4 years. And that the family has accomodated that for some period of time. Rare, but possible.

I don't see why a six year old couldn't identify that way.  It's not something you chose and perhaps her parents are doing a remarkable job of letting the child find their true self at an early age.  There seems to be a lot of fear about transgender people and a lot of it is centered around what genitalia you have and where you get to use it to excrete waste.  

I suppose there is a can of worms if later on in high school some idiot boys wanted to say they felt like they were actually girls so they could go into the girls bathroom, but I'm pretty sure the high school girls would take care of that problem in two seconds.  Besides, once they realize that girls actually poop in there, they wouldn't want to go back.

I just don't see it as that big of a deal, and I'd be more worried about that child being forced to use the boys room.  Barring the child from the girls room will basically cause her to grow up thinking she's broken somehow or doesn't have a place.

I was wondering when this was going to show up in CoJ.

My first thought after reading the comments was, "Wow..."

I have many friends who have known since a very young age, 4, 5, 6. I myself knew that something was wrong when I was around 6, although I didn't feel it quite as strongly as the girl in the article.

X2

The State Department changed the rules a couple years back for the gender marker on passports. A birth certificate is not a requirement to have the gender marker changed. A letter from a medical professional stating that the person is undergoing transition is.

I think this is a tough situation.  It's easy to judge and ask if a 6 year old really has an opinion, but I distinctly remember that as young as 3 or so, a cousin of mine, female, wanted to be a boy.  She would only wear boy underwear and clothes, she wanted short hair, she joined youth wrestling (and kicked some serious butt), etc.  This was not at the urging of her parents, and it's not that she was modeling an older sibling; she has two older sisters.  But, kids are kids and change their minds about a lot of things.  Eventually she "grew out of it."  I'm not exactly sure when, but I'd guess mid-late elementary school.  However, I recognize that it's OK either way.  The kid shouldn't be forced one way or the other.

So in conclusion, I know that kids can want to associate with the gender that does not reflect their sex, however, I guess it seems premature to label her as transgendered with any sort of permanency (like the passport). 

ETA: I wouldn't care what bathroom she uses.  If she identifies as a girl, I think she should be able to use the girls' bathroom. 

The problem is, if one believes that you're born a certain way and have no control over your sexual identity then logic would dictate that the sooner you identify it the better.  However, if you get it wrong then the poor kid is going to have some serious issues.  Kind of like gearboys story.

Either way, this is obviously a tough subject with many of us very strongly on both sides of the issue.  I'll just leave it at that.

/grabs popcorn

Even as someone who has transitioned... I've spent a lot of time thinking about how I would handle it, should my child appear to be trans. I've seen many, many people for whom transition is the correct path, but I've also seen some for whom transition was not the correct path, and when those folks transition, bad things happen. Google "Mike Penner" to see what I'm talking about.

For most people, there is a happy medium between staying as they were and going "all the way," so to speak. And I'd encourage my child to explore those mediums before taking steps towards doing anything permanent.

The thing is, the sooner you figure this out, the better. The younger one transitions, the easier it is, both in terms of the physical side of things and the quality of life, friendships, etc., afterwards. So it's hard. It's a difficult line to walk.

Just so we are all clear - it's not my personal story. It's something I learned about in residency. I still have all the factory original equipment....

If you are looking to educate yourself, GLAAD has some helpful resources. http://www.glaad.org/transgender

I would also recommend a film called "Ma Vie en Rose". It's a french film about about a boy who is transgender and the struggles his family encounters.  It can be educational or even a way to address the topic with your children if they have questions.

The article or at least the headline of the article assumes that this issue is a settled science. Just from small sample of posts about, it looks like that assumption is not true.

Given that something like 40-45% of Americans believe that the Bible is the literal truth about the origin of the planet and evolution, I don't think that using a random collection of people on a web board is any way to identify something as "settled science". Unless you mean "settled" to mean that most people accept it. To me, "settled" means that within the scientific community (i.e. people who spend their professional lives studying and working with the topic). In which case, it is a lot closer to being settled that the discussion would indicate.

I read Chaz Bono's book In Transition.    I know it's only one person's story, but it really helped me understand some of the feelings a person who is transgender might be feeling.  I really recommend it for anyone interested in the topic.

A lot closer to being settled is not settled. The article presents a false assumption which creates a bias for the reader that this is no different than choosing ones race or ethnicity. I think we can safely agree that people absolutely don't choose their race or ethnicity or maybe we can't....who knows. 

It is more a comment on the quality of journalism today than the issue at hand which I have zero interest in to offer an opinion.

I don't think we will solve where sex identity comes from in CoJ. 

So I suppose the political question here is how should the school handle it?

Perhaps it is not a big deal right now as younger kids aren't as conscious of body parts and such, but how does the school balance the needs of this kid against the rules of boy parts go in one room and girl parts in another? I mean it really isn't a question of expelling the kid from the girl's only tea party club, the bathroom is not a meeting place it is a place to get your "parts" out and conduct business.

I think the school was right in offering alternative locations to conduct business, but as to restricting boy parts from a girl parts zone there are two sides to the argument, glad I don't have to be the one to decide.

One more thought... I believe in sports it is based on the parts or even the parts born with, should it be the same for bathrooms? As the kid gets older I don't see making them take their skirt into the boys bathroom in high school but at the same time should boy parts be in the girls bathroom in high school? Perhaps the single person bathroom or nurse's bathroom is the best solution perhaps it is not. Good luck to whoever has to decide.